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Kratom The Kratom Megathread

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Is this company not domestic though? I'm actually happy with this law though I doubt it will put a dent in the headshop kratom market, I do notice that alot of headshop kratom is capsules or in some way a form of promoting human consumption ie. Package says "promotes relaxation" or some shit but this won't stop domestic companies, sadly. Just make the plant 18+ and call it a deal, gov't just needs to stop budding into peoples lives already 8). You mean to tell me that at 18 your allowed to fill your lungs with carcinogens yet you don't want me to take kratom? Well that doesn't make sense, but then again what does these days...

#LIFE
 
Ugh I've been to lazy to rerent a po box and spent my whole pay check on headshop kratom that I went through in three days, such a waste... The best brand of headshop I've found is "lucky" still a $1/1g though.
 
I've only seen the lucky 15x extract in the local headshops, 1$/1g isn't that bad compared to the capsules I'm forced to buy. Typically when I run out or USPS is being slow af I would buy those captain kratom xl capsules as that's the only form of plain leaf I've seen in the headshops around here but recently I've been saying "fuck it" and spending 40$ on some real opioids, both will last the same amount of time, might as well have fun right? I get hooked up price wise on street opies...
 
Yeah I know, there's a couple petitions going around, I know there are at least two as I signed em both. Peeps take the minute or two to help the illinois folk out, to those who say a petition won't save shit your wrong, it's been surprisingly effective at getting lawmakers to remove kratom from their bills.
 
CaptainKratom said:
Really? It feels like the same drug to me, just the quality of the effects lose their luster and increasing dose to chase after what was once there leads to anxiety and such.
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If this is the case then we have a lot of whiners in here. The addiction is mainly mental. Say 80% plus. Save for rls and anxiety I have seen no reports of aching bones/joints, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. Not to downplay others troubles I just cant see how some have the troubles they do with this substance. Coming from a former opiate addict this is not even close for me. ime, ymmv. etc.
 
^ I get diarrhea, nasua, and aches from kratom wd not nearly as bad as my past herion wd but still sucks. The wd is much more physical than mental for me.
 
While I agree that the withdrawals are maily mental and there have never been GI side-effects from withdrawal for me (I do get bone chill and aches) you can't really speak down on others experiences. It kinda baffles me as well that some struggle so much but to call them whiners is a bit rash. Kratom still carries dependancy and withdrawal issues and saying they are alot less intense than opiate withdrawal isn't saying much at all, they still fucking suck. Obviously personal chemistry is a factor here so let's play nice. Also, the majority of those who are struggling are in fact prior opiate addicts so why would they complain if they weren't really suffering?

Btw, my post was mainly reffering to the effects of high doses vs low doses and that DXM remark, I didn't even see that part about withdrawal.
 
Kratom supposedly has no binding affinity to the receptors necessary to cause respiratory depression or GI tract problems. This would explain why it is lacking some aspects of classic opiate withdrawal.
 
CaptainKratom said:
While I agree that the withdrawals are maily mental and there have never been GI side-effects from withdrawal for me (I do get bone chill and aches) you can't really speak down on others experiences. It kinda baffles me as well that some struggle so much but to call them whiners is a bit rash. Kratom still carries dependancy and withdrawal issues and saying they are alot less intense than opiate withdrawal isn't saying much at all, they still fucking suck. Obviously personal chemistry is a factor here so let's play nice. Also, the majority of those who are struggling are in fact prior opiate addicts so why would they complain if they weren't really suffering?

Btw, my post was mainly reffering to the effects of high doses vs low doses and that DXM remark, I didn't even see that part about withdrawal.
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For sure. I can be harsh at times but I could have used some tough love at one point in my life during the grips of addiction. For those posting about trying to quit any opiate I would say do whatever gets them clean the fastest as addicts have a hard time with any amount of any drug. Like if someone had slapped me in the mouth and told me I was being a little b**** I may have just quit instead of taking months to get off. Maybe not though lol.
 
Really? I kinda figured that was the case as I've never experienced either but there are a couple people who claim to get GI side-effects so IDK. I think the fact that kratom also has stimulant alkaloids aids in the lacking resp depression as well.
 
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^ source? (edit- directed at pinpoint) Mu is Mu. Everything I've read suggests the relative lack of respiratory depression compared to straight opioids is due to the adrenergic effects and the Mu antagonism of corythantheidine. I certainly get GI effects, many complain of constipation (not me) and diarrhea and cramping upon cessation (me) ....I got pronounced respiratory depression from the bonafide 250x before ***/** stopped selling it years ago...even a good wallop of genuine ***/**FST (2-8 ml) or UEI (3-10g) will give me such. I only use plain leaf now, but in very large amounts, but notice no respiratory depression...
 
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^ Extracts are usually adulterated with potent mitragynine analogs and in really high amounts so that's not very fair, although I do find it hard to believe that kratom simply doesn't bind to said receptors. I thought mu agonism causes those side-effects and there's no doubt that kratom is a mu agonist.
 
Agree with you on the Mu :D but the jury is still out on the bonafide UEI and FST.....believed to be a mix of the pseudoindoxyl, 7-OH, and oxindole B in various ratios, but only the manufacturer knows! All those compounds are found in the plant, but you are correct in that the running theory is that he synthesizes these from mitragynine, and thwarts the "ceiling effect"...he'll be screwed if Wisconisin does indeed ban said compounds...I can tell you they are coryantheidine based by the fragments in an attempt at analysis...but it's still a mystery. Totally different extracts than anything else out there! A bottle of FST downed in one shot is a high like no other..I've ran HPLC on it and their is no mitragynine in it. Pretty funny for a "full spectrum tincture"....ha. Lots of fake FSTs and UEIs out there though...

Gold Reserve and the 90% products produced by ** are basically the same profile as the leaf....same ceiling effect, don't get me anywhere that the plain leaf won't...he doesn't fractionate while extracting..well, he has, but doesn't sell them to the general public, and they still are no FST or UEI..

But yeah, Mu is Mu ...
 
All those compounds are found in the plant, but you are correct in that the running theory is that he synthesizes these from mitragynine, and thwarts the "ceiling effect"...he'll be screwed if Wisconisin does indeed ban said compounds...I can tell you they are coryantheidine based by the fragments in an attempt at analysis...but it's still a mystery.
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Are you saying these synthetic chems are derived from coryantheidine? Coryantheidine is a mu antagonist so I'm kinda confused, care to elaborate? Here's a relevant post from a vendors colleague on mitragynine pseudo-indoxyl...
NSFW:
"What is particularly intriguing about Mitragynine-pseudoindoxyl is that its synthesis from Mitraynine is only three steps and only requires four reagents that are all very common oxidation reagents, all of which are readily available as far as I know. The tricky part would be separating and purifying the final product, as the excess catalysts could be potentially super bad news to handle without precautions. But performing one of many relatively simple organic extractions would be able to effectively remove all of the nasty stuff. There are easy ways to check for the presence of any remaining detrimental compounds to see if further purification must be performed. The paper that first demonstrated the synthesis of the pseudoindoxyl derivative states that the final oxidation step only generated the single species without stereoisomers, if I understood the paper correctly (Chemistry papers written by non-English speakers can be tricky). In other words, it's really not so complicated if someone really wanted to put a bit of resources into it and had someone who was trained."


I've ran HPLC on it and their is no mitragynine in it.
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Lol "full spectrum" my ass...

Here's a great thread where a very reputable vendor speaks out about these extracts and what they likely contain for those who are un-informed on the extract game, Mu is the vendor:

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?46006-Rocket-Fuel-aka-Oxindole-bali
 
ok, took my last oxy this am and now I took 3g of red vein, didn't do shit, so I took 3 caps of maeng da. Didn't say the grams on it and waiting for ANY effect. Any words of wisdom? my body is not happy going from 60-80mg of oxy to 15mg this am and now...I don't know what to do. :?
 
How much kratom do you have? Your gonna need more than what I'm guessing is 4.5g to hold a 60-80mg a dag oxy habit (the standard amt per 00 capsule is usually ~.5g per cap). Also, staggering doses gives time for tolerance to set in so it's best take your dose in full. Try a dose of 8g in one single dose when you feel that you need to redose.
 
Captain- the most active indole based compounds in M. speciosa are all coryantheidine based..

Coryantheidine - Mu antagonist
Mitragynine - 9-MeO coryatheidine, full Mu agonist
9-OH coryantheidine - partial Mu agonist
7-OH mitragynine - full mu agonist

Interesting thread, Mu is on the right track, but misinformed on the producer of FST and UEI and the oxindole....I won't say more because it is against the BLUA

Etc, etc...
 
Oh, duh :p.... I don't even think I've ever bothered looking up the chemical structure of mitragynine, I think it would've been very obvious had I seen 9-MeO coryantheidine, *facepalm*. With all this said it makes me wonder if one day we will start seeing these mitragynine analogs on the RC market, I sure hope not. Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl sounds easy to make if Mu's colleague is correct, and pretty strong if it is indeed the main constituent of these extracts as I agree that they feel unique and a hell of alot stronger than plain leaf and even non-adulterated extracts.
 
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^ it is actually not as easy of a synthesis as the dude makes it out to be.....nothing the chinese couldnt pull off though :! and much like 7-OHM, I am going to hope that the pseudoindoxyl is underwhelming by itself...There is some strange synergism going on hopefully or more to the story than we know....
 
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