Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v17.0 + v18.0

[BlueHues]

Well, the idea of naltrexone appeals to a lot of people without much idea of what it's like to be dependent on opiates because it "forces you to comply"! "We'll teach those addicts not to get addicted, we'll forcibly block their receptors!"

Of course, this is just a very misguided view, and a very irresponsible way to use naltrexone on your patients, that basically amounts to "torture" if used incorrectly..

I've heard of doctors being intentionally vague about what naltrexone actually does/is, telling patients, "It will reduce your cravings", and a lot of patients agreeing to be treated with it because they have no idea what it actually is! This is shameful, and symptomatic of a culture that still largely believes in "punishing addiction"!

A lot of people in the addiction field seem to believe that lying to to the people they're treating, or omitting details about the exact nature of their treatment is necessary to get addicts to agree to treatment...it's outrageous! I've personally experienced this, and it's just plain wrong for a team of professionals to disguise their true intentions from being known by the patient, of all people!

No matter what the treatment, the patient should be told everything, right up front before agreeing to treatment...Anything less is unethical, unprofessional and a betrayal of trust!

 

[Zwanya]

Well, the idea of naltrexone appeals to a lot of people without much idea of what it's like to be dependent on opiates because it "forces you to comply"! "We'll teach those addicts not to get addicted, we'll forcibly block their receptors!"

Of course, this is just a very misguided view, and a very irresponsible way to use naltrexone on your patients, that basically amounts to "torture" if used incorrectly..

I've heard of doctors being intentionally vague about what naltrexone actually does/is, telling patients, "It will reduce your cravings", and a lot of patients agreeing to be treated with it because they have no idea what it actually is! This is shameful, and symptomatic of a culture that still largely believes in "punishing addiction"!

A lot of people in the addiction field seem to believe that lying to to the people they're treating, or omitting details about the exact nature of their treatment is necessary to get addicts to agree to treatment...it's outrageous! I've personally experienced this, and it's just plain wrong for a team of professionals to disguise their true intentions from being known by the patient, of all people!

No matter what the treatment, the patient should be told everything, right up front before agreeing to treatment...Anything less is unethical, unprofessional and a betrayal of trust!

Yup.

I'm currently getting my second Master's in Chemical Dependency and Addiction Therapy. I know precisely what I will do, what I will do only in certain circumstances, and what I absolutely refuse to do. I've learned a lot of this from my own experience of course, but also by reading about people's experiences here. Smokem's doctor needs do be audited and reviewed by the board.

 

[BlueHues]

^That's great, congratulations! A lot of people in the field have personal experience with addiction themselves, and are very compassionate and competent in their treatment practices, but unfortunately, even some people who did once struggle with addiction themselves adapt an "angry" treatment style after working in the field for a few years...Addiction is a frustrating thing to confront, but there's no excuse to turn your frustration on the patients!

 

[Zwanya]

^^Thank you.

Yeah, there's this really strange and obvious juxtaposition among addiction therapists where some are bouyant, positive and genuinely seem to want to connect with their clients; while others are just so obviously resentful and sometimes aggressively hostile and negative. It's similar in education: you've got the teachers who are spritely and driven, totally devoted to their students. Then you have the the teachers who are so burnt out and pissed off, that they project all of their anger onto the kids.

In both scenarios, you wonder what the hell these people are doing in these fields. And in both of these cases, the folks you need are the ones who actually promote a culture of positivity and hope, and who provide an environment of safety, no?

 

[caseface99]

^^ Completely agree zwanya. The best addiction doctors and therapists I've ever met are ones who are recovering addicts themselves.

 

[BlueHues]

^^I completely agree, and I hope you're able to promote the same attitude you have in those around you...It seems whoever's "in charge" really influences the overall attitude of the rest of the staff in substance abuse treatment settings, so even if a new "_counselor" doesn't agree with the exact policy, they have to go along with it...

I'm not an addiction specialist at all myself, but I have many friends who got clean and went into that field, and I have quite a bit of firsthand experience!

 

[smokemctoke420]

Yup.

I'm currently getting my second Master's in Chemical Dependency and Addiction Therapy. I know precisely what I will do, what I will do only in certain circumstances, and what I absolutely refuse to do. I've learned a lot of this from my own experience of course, but also by reading about people's experiences here. Smokem's doctor needs do be audited and reviewed by the board.

No bullshit. dudes a quack. imma tell him that ill try to find another sub doc if he wont write it out for me and im also gonna flat out refuse the shot again. Fuck that old mother fucker

^That's great, congratulations! A lot of people in the field have personal experience with addiction themselves, and are very compassionate and competent in their treatment practices, but unfortunately, even some people who did once struggle with addiction themselves adapt an "angry" treatment style after working in the field for a few years...Addiction is a frustrating thing to confront, but there's no excuse to turn your frustration on the patients!

No there's not. and even if you do then when your patient has a problem and is physically sick from something that YOU gprescribed then fucking fix it, man. When i call 5 times in 3 days then obviously something is wrong and you should fix it whether im still on the shot currently or not. Dont prescribe me thorazine and fucking flexeril you god damn lunatic fuck. imma raise hell in that bitch this week. Im done being a fucking lab rat

^^ Completely agree zwanya. The best addiction doctors and therapists I've ever met are ones who are recovering addicts themselves.

Very true. so much easier to talk to someone who has been there. You can pick the addicts vs the non addicts out the crowd pretty damn easy as well.

 

[leefx]

So, from what i'm gathering;
Zubsolv (I just got switched to this last month) is completely safe and EFFECTIVE to snort/intranasal? And has higher bioavailability than Sublingual (my usual ROA)?
Is Zubsolv safe to IV as well, or has no one tried (with good results) yet?


I am so glad my Doctor actually has my best interests in mind. He suggested Zubsolv the first appointment I had after being approved to prescribe it. He practically told me to "please switch to this if your insurance does not cover Suboxone; it is the same stuff only cheaper and actually works 'better'!"

I guess by "better" he meant the 5.7mg equivalent to 8mg of Suboxone means it works "better"?

Hell, I remember him telling me that Reckitt-Benckiser pulling the orange stop-sign Suboxone tablets off the market was just for them to keep their "grubby hands on that patent"... my doc.

 

[PKPro]

Snorting it works phenomenally well. As for IV? I've IVed both sub and zub. Should you choose to IV zubs you must definitely approach with caution. Follow proper IV procedure, and DO NOT MISS. As always I suggest you take this medication as it's supposed to but you are an adult and can make your own decisions. Just wanted to let you know that I do it, and I'm still alive.

*note* your veins will not be happy you are IVing sub and/or zub. Rotate locations frequently.

<please don't blatantly promote IV drug use>

 

[RTrain]

I'm on 6mgs of subutex a day. I think 8 might be better? To be honest the thing making me relapse is my partner still using, bringing gear over everyday and using and offering it to me. I know this has to stop.

Oh right that's you, the girl living with the guy who uses in front of you and offers you dope. Okay, I didn't realize that. Yeah, well that changes everything. Hah. I mean, no matter what dose of subs you are on, you're not going to stay clean with that ass hole waving dope around in your face. For any kind of sobriety method to work.. you have to get away from him. That's the only way. Right now, you're not even allowing yourself to have a real shot at the suboxone working and staying clean ya know? Get rid of him, up your dose to 8mg's, and I guarantee you'll feel 10x better and have a much easier time staying clean. That's my advice for you.

Yeah that is the simple truth. Maybe its a bitter pill to swallow, but that is just how it is. This isn't a relationship forum so I won't get into the whole situation, but it seems clear you have 2 basic options. Its your life though, so live it how you want.

for those who use suboxone with no tolerance to get high (such as myself) how long does it take to become ineffective for you?

for me i only do a mg or 2 in this situation and if i do it more than 2, at most 3 days in a row i'm not feeling it much anymore.

You really have to space out the redosing of Subs to get a decent high again, because of the long ass half life. Once it builds up in your system to a certain point then you won't get much of a buzz from when a redose hits you. "Just try waiting longer, its similar to how long you have to wait to feel full agonists opiates when you are taking Sub. So I say 1 mg = wait 12 hours, 2 mg = wait 24, 4 mg = wait 48. Pretty simple and its how it works for me.

I use it for mainetance and take between 1.5-2.5 mg a day, but for the most part its 2 or just under at around 1.75(only time I go above 2 mg in a day is if I go out that night or work an overnight). I take 1 mg in the morning around 6 am, it starts to wear off and I dose again between 4p-6p. If I was to dose at 6 am and again only 4-6 hours later, I wouldn't feel much. But waiting for the last dose to wear off, then redosing, always gives a little pick me up. I get a good opiate-like buzz in the morning off the 1 mg, obviously not nodding out or anything, but there is a bit of euphoria so to speak.

I know you might hear all these people saying it doesn't get them high and they just feel "normal". Eh...they need to kick the Subs and see what normal feels like, then. Or explain why they wake up everyday and need the Sub to get out of bed or have motivation to walk out the door.

 

[marienbad]

Let's talk about suboxone and sex.

So, I'm a guy. I've been taking 2mg Suboxone daily since last September (I am small/have a naturally small tolerance, so 2mg/day is plenty for me and I even still feel a buzz/big mood lift when I take my doses). Everything is pretty fantastic EXCEPT it's really hard to cum within a few hours (sometimes as much as 5 or 6 hours) after my last dose. I take 1mg twice a day, typically, say, the first at noon and the second at 6pm. But this is throwing a wrench into my sex life with my girlfriend, and I can't always predict when we will or won't have sex so as to wait to take the sub until after, etc. It's really frustrating and there's few things worse than having my girlfriend tired and sore and me still trying to get off. Even worse is when we have to stop sometimes and I still haven't finished, people call it "blue balls" and joke about it but it makes me feel seriously depressed. It's sometimes even hard to keep a hard-on going if I've taken sub too recently, and this is even more embarrassing somehow.

It's also annoying because it's unpredictable. Sometimes I can take my sub like usual and still cum quickly 2 hours after a dose, but a lot of times it will take an ungodly amount of time for me to cum unless I wait AT LEAST 4 hours after the dose. What can I do?

I wanna bring this up to my sub doc next time but I'm afraid he'll just say there's not much that can be done. What do you say? Serious responses only.

 

[smokemctoke420]

will do. Ill report back monday night after i see my counselor for my individual and then again wednesday after i see doctor fuckstick.

I ended up writing a big lists of why i want to go back on it. pros and cons of thew shot and some other things. well he ended up writing me for a month and im gonna look for a doc to go on longer but ill still be in the same outpatient but just getting meds from somewhere else. i should be able to buy another 10 subs saturday and then 15 8s at the end of the month. im gonna try to stay at 3mgs 2X a day and i should be good. so if i can get all those extras then even if he cut me off at a month then i could stretch each strip to 2 days and have like a extra month or so.

They also said that i should be looking for a doc now since i want it for more then a month. he gave me a huge list and =ive got about 10 docs within 20 mins that do subs so ill start calling tommorrow morning. and try to get in one asap. theres waiting lists usually and if there is then i was told by the lady that runs the program that i can stay on it past the month as long as im on a waiting list or are still looking. so ill be ok

Got my 20 etizolam. popped 2, plugged 4mg of sub, and smoked mad bongs. my cramps are gone and my legs no longer hurt and best of all ill be able to sleep cuz i wont have RLS. im a happy camper.

I also dont have to work tommorrow either so thats a bonus imo., especially since im collecting an extra month of unemployment ($800) and still getting my regular check. ha. i havent worked since thursday so im glad im still collecting.

 

[BlueHues]

Glad to hear it...There's no way you can jump straight from suboxone to naltrexone...All naltrexone does is block opiates...You have to want to get clean for it to do anything positive...

 

[smokemctoke420]

Glad to hear it...There's no way you can jump straight from suboxone to naltrexone...All naltrexone does is block opiates...You have to want to get clean for it to do anything positive...

i do wanna get clean and it worked but only whille i was taking subs on top of it. after that it went down hill.but this time around instead of back in oct-dec when i was getting 50 pills from my sis to last till my appt on 12/11 and i had 40 days cleaned and relapsed and felt guilty and it ate me up. i was drinking liquor everynight along with my subs and weed.

but now i dont drink so i dont have to worry about taking shots and then immediatly craving/copping dope. i havent drank since xmas or done dope since 1/14. i feel like i want it more this time around. im more serious about it.

with the shot theres no structure. its just a once a month group drug screen at random and 1 group and individual a weewk and you could do all that in one trip. i need structure since i havent really had much clean time.and with the sub program. you call evryday to see if your color is called and if it is you gotta piss the next day, you got 2 groups a week and a individual session.

I love that place tho. its such a big help. I feel so much better with no drinking or dope. ive never thought id have 2 weeks of no alcohol, much less 2 months. same with the opiates. i just feel so much better. and after i plugged 4mg of sub and took 2mg of etizolam with bong rips. my knees no longer hurt, no RLS, no lack of sleep, i have an appetite.

Let's talk about suboxone and sex.

So, I'm a guy. I've been taking 2mg Suboxone daily since last September (I am small/have a naturally small tolerance, so 2mg/day is plenty for me and I even still feel a buzz/big mood lift when I take my doses). Everything is pretty fantastic EXCEPT it's really hard to cum within a few hours (sometimes as much as 5 or 6 hours) after my last dose. I take 1mg twice a day, typically, say, the first at noon and the second at 6pm. But this is throwing a wrench into my sex life with my girlfriend, and I can't always predict when we will or won't have sex so as to wait to take the sub until after, etc. It's really frustrating and there's few things worse than having my girlfriend tired and sore and me still trying to get off. Even worse is when we have to stop sometimes and I still haven't finished, people call it "blue balls" and joke about it but it makes me feel seriously depressed. It's sometimes even hard to keep a hard-on going if I've taken sub too recently, and this is even more embarrassing somehow.

It's also annoying because it's unpredictable. Sometimes I can take my sub like usual and still cum quickly 2 hours after a dose, but a lot of times it will take an ungodly amount of time for me to cum unless I wait AT LEAST 4 hours after the dose. What can I do?

I wanna bring this up to my sub doc next time but I'm afraid he'll just say there's not much that can be done. What do you say? Serious responses only.

i can definetly catch a boner, no problem with that. ive even gotten off on 2mg but it takes like 45 mins. lol but with higher doses i wait 6-8 hours then i can bust a nut all day long but just gotta put in a little more time lol

 

[RTrain]

Still a lot better than being on dope or oxy, where it is damn near impossible to bust. With Subs you just have to wait a couple hours. I actually find it ives a nice balance between the 4-6 hour mark after taking my dose (but I only take 1 mg). You got that bit of opiate to give you a little more stamina, but its not impossible to get one off. Depends on recent sexual activity, too. If you did it like 6 hours ago and try again only a few hours after a Sub dose then it can be quite tough. But if its been a couple days its no problem.

 

[smokemctoke420]

i can take a whole 8 at 6am before work and still get off at 4pm when i come home but on lower doses iff im horny enough it wont take long. heroin and oxy on the other hand, its just a big waste of time lol

 

[RTrain]

Yeah, on my dose its never a real issue. If I am not in the mood and it shortly after a dose then it can present some difficulty, but otherwise its no issue.

 

[two4tyler]

I just started suboxone today and I am freaking out I can't tell if they gave me too much or not enough. I can't find any answers anywhere! It sounds like you guys know what you are talking about so I figured I would try and ask if you don't mind. I took 4mg every 2 hrs sublingually today and topped off at 12 and I felt good when I left that was 6 and 1/2 hrs ago now I can't tell if I am in withdrawal or they gave me too much. I am shaking again sweating hot and cold heart is beating fast as crap and I feel super crappy I never felt like tired or relaxed today what is going on is it too high or too low I seriously feel like I am going down hill fast! Please help I go back in the morning and I really just want to feel normal again. BTW I am coming off 60mg of OC's a day for 1.5years Thanks

 

[BlueHues]

^You're just adjusting to the buprenorphine most likely...It can be strange in the beginning...

Give it another day or so, I'm sure you'll be much improved.....If you're experiencing anything serious, go to the ER...but I'm pretty sure you're just adjusting to the partial-agonist, and that you'll be fine soon..

 

[Flaga121]

Yea, you took to much sir. Less is more with subs, even for addicts. Docs have NO idea proper dosing (though I think partly its because half their clients lie to get more to either sell or abuse).