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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

knock said:
Yeah sorry about the embarrassment. It's annoying arguing over things like this, and having to bring up the past, but I remember things differently to how Sam remembers them, and if he read just a little bit more carefully then maybe he would too :)
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Read what more carefully? Please explain...

To me, this:

poppies - booted
ah7921 - booted
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Means he was addicted to neither when that post was made.

There's this, which you assume I've 'missed':

So far im off the poppys, no opies today, miminlam amount yesterday
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But that doesn't mean he kicked the poppies yesterday, just that he dosed yesterday, for fuck's sake!

If I'm missing something else, please fill me in rather than implying that I have problems with reading comprehension. Ta. :)
 
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read my last post more carefully.

Just because he said they were booted, doesn't mean they were. He somehow had managed not to have any on that one day, except he did have some the day before. WDs from poppies don't kick in for a good while. You're still fucked off them the next day.
 
its ok, no biggie, i made those public posts out of my own free will, its not like a private PM was posted or anything. I definately was not the ticket at that time though. I dont really see how what i was posting a year or 2 ago is relevant to anything happening right now though.

Dick Tate did offer me good advice at the time kenny quoted, and if i had followed it, then like kenny says i would have been where i am now, 9 months ago. But as i said the drugs support workers recommended me to get on bupe. In hindsight that was the wrong call, as Sam said at the time, i recall, but what's done is done.
 
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mydrugbuddy said:
its ok, no biggie, i made those public posts out of my own free will, its not like a private PM was posted or anything. I definately was not the ticket at that time though. I dont really see how what i was posting a year or 2 ago is relevant to anything happening right now though.

Dick Tate did offer me good advice at that time, and if i had followed it, then like kenny says i would have been where i am now, 9 months ago. But as i said the drugs support workers recommended me to get on bupe. In hindsight that was the wrong call, as Sam said at the time, i recall, but what's done is done.
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It's only relevant because people are trying to take a certain unsympathetic line with you and their rationale for doing so is about the history of your drug use. And it's a rationale that I think is unfair because they're not remembering things right. You might think it's fair but it's in your nature to be conciliatory ;)
 
knock said:
read my last post more carefully.

Just because he said they were booted, doesn't mean they were. He somehow had managed not to have any on that one day, except he did have some the day before. WDs from poppies don't kick in for a good while. You're still fucked off them the next day.
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This is getting ridiculous. Read my last post more carefully, eh?

He states he's 'off the poppies'. Not waiting for withdrawals, not 'still fucked', just 'off the poppies'.

I know I wouldn't be going around saying "I'm off the smack" were I at any stage of withdrawal, no matter how early.
 
knock said:
but it's in your nature to be conciliatory ;)
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sort of, i find it very destructive to 'go to war' with people. I seek to avoid conflict, i intensly dislike it and the effect it has on me. But if i feel im being put down i will try to stand up for myself and fight my corner when necessary , hopefully without escalating any conflicts.
 
Sammy G said:
But that doesn't mean he kicked the poppies yesterday, just that he dosed yesterday, for fuck's sake!

If I'm missing something else, please fill me in rather than implying that I have problems with reading comprehension. Ta. :)
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If MDB dosed yesterday, and didn't dose today, and now he's saying he's booted the poppies, then yes it looks a bit like he means he kicked them yesterday.

Even if it's not 100% certain that's what he meant, well, it's also very far from certain that those posts mean he really didn't have an addiction. People really can say "I've booted the xxx" and it not actually be the case. You're trying to establish a fact by quoting MDB at a time when he was in a pretty bad shape from phenazepam. How's that meant to work?
 
I agree it's off-topic, I don't agree it's irrelevant because people are offering advice about opiates/opioids to you based on an interpretation of your history, one that I believe is wrong. It's not going to be easy to establish a correct version of your history if you don't want to talk about :D but it's totally understandable that you don't.

I can clean this thread up if you like. That would, in my view, mean removing a lot of posts including the one Brimz made that seems to have started the latest round of discussion. I could just pull out the BLUA and say "no harassment or degradation" because in my judgement that post was degrading to you, MDB. This thread is for what it says in the title, anyone who wants to discuss coping with opioid and opiate withdrawals, and it doesn't matter if it's heroin, kratom or loperamide.
 
Just one more thing before I pass out. Re. CBT drug/mental health issues. And forgive me if I am wrong but what dept are the counsellors etc people are getting access and referral by their GP etc actually to? As far as I can see no one is being referred to dual diagnosis teams or specialists to deal with both drug and mental health issues together? Am I wrong? You can not treat in my opinion each in isolation.

Their are also say like in my home town specialist centres for addiction which are charity funded who have the clout to refer directly to a C.M.H.T with a specialist dual diagnosis worker (Mental health and drug/polidrug use) or a Dual diagnosis team as mentioned.

I was once sat in an assessment years ago with a very eminentand elderly Psychiatrist who was about to label this poor young girl with a diagnosis (and treat her for that with relevant meds) as schizophrenic/borderline schizotypal personality disorder. Now I could smell the THC super skunk emitting from her very skin and I could also guess she had probably just done a mountainous amount of coke/similar from the signs I recognised in myself and my fellow caners when they had pushed it way too much to the point of a drug induced psychosis (either a temporary thing-or to be monitored for lasting repercussions). He looked totally shocked when I privately pointed this out to him...he had no idea SERIOUSLY and was just basing his diagnosis in pure straight old school textbook MH diagnosis. This happens less now but it does still happen. You need to push for the right worker for your needs..if indeed you want help with your addictions and withdrawals...I appreciate this may mean you need some insight in to your needs and some energy, which is not often easy to recognise when you are in the thick of it. This is a general comment not aimed at anyone. I think I am keeping out of this thread for now as I find it a smidge distressing. <3
 
I think it would be better to leave everything in the thread. The points made by everyone may be usefull to other members and lurkers. I guess you are right that my history is relevant, but i think only in as much that it shows i have a pattern of repeating cycles over and over. That has been established, i dont think looking into it any further than that is helpfull.

Inf, I am seeing a dual diagnosis worker. She seems to be very much against seeing me whilst i am continuing to use as she belives it is masking my symptoms. She is right, but I feel she could help me to stop and stay stopped as far as opis go. I need to try to get her to see that point, and see if she can help me with it, next time i see her.
 
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It does indeed happen less. Though many people's reluctance to discuss drug use with healthcare professionals (usually to avoid being labelled a 'drug seeker') means it does still happen.

I've been questioned heavily about my drug use by more than one psychiatrist, and the second one was extremely keen to establish that I hadn't just been suffering from drug psychosis and 'normal' substance abuse problems.

Interestingly enough, my cannabis use was never even considered to be a possible contributing factor to my problems, even prior to actual diagnosis. Just goes to show how the psychiatric profession regards the more scaremongering examples of popular 'science' in that field.
 
mydrugbuddy said:
Cannabis can trigger episodes in people with underlying predispositions to conditions such as schizophrenia, possibly even trigger anxiety and paranoia type problems even in people without such relatively serious conditions.
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None of which has happened to me, despite long-term use with a serious underlying mental health condition. In fact, there's a growing school of thought that tends toward the opinion that people with mental health problems gravitate toward cannabis for relief from symptoms, rather than cannabis precipitating the symptoms. Certainly that's the case with bipolar.

My psychiatrists also happen to believe that these cases are much rarer than has been suggested, and that there are a million other, more common triggers for such episodes, most of which are not drug-related at all.

Cannabis can trigger symptoms of psychosis in some people if used extensively - this has been known for years. It's also well known that cessation of the drug leads to cessation of the symptoms.

But hey - they're just psychiatrists. What do they know? :)
 
The super skunk that was flying around the part of London I once upon a time worked in and the sheer levels consumed can in my opinion based on my readings and experience on the wards IN SOME, almost certainly can bring about drug MH/ psychosis especially if their is a family predisposition etc. Some people may experience short term drug psychosis and in others (usually in their early 20s it like a family trauma etc can kick off serious MH problems that may well end up being severe and enduring).

Personally the only drug I can not tolerate and has made me exceptionally paranoid verging on psychosis is weed. So I just don't do it. I won't bore you but I was going to do my PHD on that very subject.All drugs have different outcomes with each individual..if you smoke and it makes you happy even helps then great...carry on. For some it's therapeutic for others as evidenced it's bad news.
 
inflorescence said:
in others (usually in their early 20s it like a family trauma etc can kick off serious MH problems that may well end up being severe and enduring).
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Most mental health problems really begin to manifest in the early twenties. Which of course coincides with the peak of drug experimentation for the majority of people.

The majority of 'cannabis made my son a nutter' stories we read are heavily skewed - of course we aren't going to hear about shitty parenting, abuse, poverty and all the other major contributing factors to mental health issues, are we? It's always a caring mother whose son or daughter turned into a moody, reclusive stranger (a phenomenon that use to be called teenagerism) and how it was all down to the cannabis.

Don't get me wrong; I'm sure cannabis psychosis is a fact. I just don't think it's nearly as common as people make out. I also think people mistake 'freaking out' on weed for a psychotic episode because they've read about it somewhere. Believe me folks, there's a difference!

And if you want a drug that can cause long-term psychosis from moderate use, try cocaine or amphetamine!
 
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