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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Opiate and opioid withdrawal: Coping strategies and medication

@evileivibe

Its legal. I like to think of it as an opiate with a twist - if that makes sense. In a sense it reminds me of tramadol. Not that it is anything like tramadol, just in how similar it is to an archetypal opiate. In the same way that tramadol has some opiate characteristics but also feels quite a bit spacey, or like an antidepressent, kratom has got that same degree of relateness. It definitely has opiate characteristics but it really is quite unique. If i had sophistication i would attempt to draw a venn diagram but seeing as i still haven't worked out how to respond to two separate quotes from different BL'ers in the same post I think I'll have to call it quits at that possibly weird attempted description i just tried to give. :)
 
If Kratom is anything like Tram I may need to look deeper.
Though I am a hyper-metaboliser of Tramadol, in that 150mg of Tram will have me higher than 60mg of Oxy or Morphine.
 
I don't have huge experience with kratom but it most resembled tramadol to me too. This is not necessarily a recommendation given how brutal tramadol WD are. I hear kratom is similarly brutal in the WD department. It's nice stuff but I would not want to develop a habit on it.
 
knock said:
Sorry this is the coping strategies thread, not the get fucked faster thread :)
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I love it. What started out as a pure HR thread has inevitably begun to slide back to being about what BL'ers know best: ie getting spangled. In fact what's going on my mind right now is a mixture of reminiscing over past kratom use and a growing curiosity about poppy tea. Seriously though, this thread was such a good thing to get going so thanks for putting it together mate. We need a bit of pure HR now and again, the drug use seems to get done well enough on its own.

But back to drug use. I don't know if the taste is really that much different if you separate it out from the powder. I find that there is benign tasting kratom and foul tasting kratom. I can still remember the names of a lot of the brands i tried out but i won't mention them because it probably crosses over into vendor territory (I haven't bought or used it in several years so i really don't know what's about now). I think what tipped the balance in favour of extracting it was when I got my tolerance up and started getting ill on it. Around the same time i had bought a small bottle of kratom tincture from a head shop and kind of put two and two together. I looked at the 25 gram bag of kratom and the bottle of liquid kratom extract and decided I just didn't want all that powder in my body if i didn't have to. It was only a couple of times that i got really sick on it but i think that helped swing things.

Now i think back i tended to mix my water / kratom extract with apple juice. I also remember ingesting a fair bit of resin as well. Back in the days before you could just legally order hundreds of fucking benzo's to your door next day delivery i definitely remember making trips to the head shops ahead of a night out on the mdma. I was the only drug nerd in the group of guys i hung out with back then (well still do when i can but everyone's a bit geographically dispersed these days) and after we got back from the club or whatever and everyone was kinda trying to smoke and drink their way towards a bit of sleep before the next days savagery, i would literally swallow like half a bar of kratom resin and just wait for it to kick it. And wait was defintely the operative word. It took forever to kick in and generally got stuck in the gullet several times on the way down, but it certainly worked a charm when it finally did its thing.
 
Sorry I think i over reached a bit with my post when i mentioned tramadol and kratom. Maybe some people find them similar, and i guess they definitely are, but i was more trying to draw an analogy with how you would describe kratom to someone who was looking for an opiate. I meant that kratom is about as similar to say codeine as tramadol is to codeine, not that tramadol was necessarily like kratom.

Odt is an interesting mention though. Is it just me or does anyone else find Odt to be like a stripped down version of tramadol? Its great and everything but not really the full package. I find it more stimulating than tramadol, just slightly. That alone leans it a bit closer to low dose kratom i guess. i hadn't thought of that connection before.
 
Shambles said:
This is not necessarily a recommendation given how brutal tramadol WD are.
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The wd's off tramadol are fucking brutal aren't they. So much for the soft opiate option. Tramdol was the first proper addiction that i had that i never saw coming and i can still remember those 4 days and 4 sleepless nights, watching entire series of the wire in one go just to stop from climbing up the walls and going psycho. I'm starting to worry about this Ah- 79 whatever the fuck that i've been getting into recently as well. I think it might be another silent killer. Seems fairly low key and everything when you're using it but its been three days now i've without any and i'm a bit of mess to be quite frank.
 
Wow three months off the tramadol alone? When i kicked all drugs temporarily about six months back i definitely wasn't right for a couple of months, however i think the actual intense withdrawals where not much more than a week again. The problem was that where i kicked opiates and benzo's at the same time along with having fried my brain on stimulants i think my whole body was just busted up. I don't know what was withdrawals and what was just post drug abuse wreckage. I'd be on the train coming back from work and just couldn't find any way to be comfortable - i guess that might have gone on for a good month. Again i don't know if it was withdrawals. i think i just seriously fucked up my brain / nervous system etc...

When i was in rehab years ago i remember hearing a guy say he went 3 weeks without sleeping when he came off methadone. That one definitely stuck in my head.
 
Yup three months. Both times I came off it. Cos once just wasn't enough 8)

Bear in mind that with tramadol it's both the opioid and SNRI effects you are WD from. The latter lasts a loooooooooooooooong time :\

(and the opi side ain't exactly pleasant either)
 
I'm glad you made that point about the serotonergic activity. I got into some weird nonsensical argument with half of the dudes over at AD or whatever it is. I was making real molecular models of tramadol and venlafaxine and taking photographs and everything. Like i said it was a bit weird, I think there was a fair bit of confusion though as i accidently gate crashed a thread that had started off debating whether or not venlafaxine had opiod actiivity - which i couldn't give a fuck about. Anyway.

Did you get the tramadol headaches? I remember i had these savage headaches everyday for about 2 years at the height of my tramadol use but i never knew it was the tramadol until i was chatting with a doctor who was a mate of mine, outside of work. When he heard i was doing loads of tramadol he was like "fuck that shit, its dirty. we get guys with relentless headaches even six months after they came off it". After that i really toned it down cos the headaches were killing me.
 
Hmm... what you and your doctor friend are calling "headaches" may well be what many (including me) call "brain zaps". Similar to what some report after heavy MDMA abuse or SSRI cessation. I got those for months after quitting and am far more prone to them after serotonergics now than I ever used to be (of course the latter could be completely unrelated - I never got 'em from serotonergic use prior to tram abuse though other than when I quit Seroxat).

If you just mean plain ol' headaches than I never noticed them particularly in relation to tramadol. I did get Serotonin Syndrome the second day I was on trams when I took LSD on top of it. Yeah, surprised me too :|

Horrible, horrible drug is tramadol. Quite pleasant initially but soooooooo messy receptor-wise and interactions-wise. And those WD?!? Fuck tram. And doublefuck tram addiction.
 
Another lie put forward by Pharmaceutical companies that it would be less addictive than Codeine.:|
 
I'd kill, or at least maim, for some relief right now. I can deal with the physical shit (pun, pun, pun!) but the psychological bit is hitting. I walked straight past 5 opportunities to score today and felt proud, but now I feel terrible. I'll kick this shit one day.
 
brimz said:
MDB you like opiates don't worry about it so damn much !!
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if i didnt have to take an international flight at some point in the near future and will mean me being away for an uknown ammount of time i would not be worrying about it. Im not like you, who can score anything anywhere in new cities etc. Wanna come to australia with me, fix me up with some opis and benzos to last for the duration ? lol
 
Swarm said:
Odt is an interesting mention though. Is it just me or does anyone else find Odt to be like a stripped down version of tramadol? Its great and everything but not really the full package. I find it more stimulating than tramadol, just slightly. That alone leans it a bit closer to low dose kratom i guess. i hadn't thought of that connection before.
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*drools about the mere mention of odt.

odt is what your body turns tramadol into. Its like 40 times more powerfull as an opiate agonist, it hits the u receptor fully and bang on the nose. Why are you talking about it? Do you happen to have any ? Tramadol itself is an extremely weak opiate agonist, i suspect it its other properties that make the w.ds so nasty, rather than the amount of opiates it contains. Ive tried tramadol a few times but as im on an SNRI and even if i skip doses i dont think it works properly on me. I guess you need 40 times as much tramadol if you are looking for odt effects, sadly some peoples bodies can do the conversion better than others, i dont think my system does the convesrion to any extent that i can actually feel 'here's the odt' part kicking in. :\
 
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SproutOnSmack said:
If Kratom is anything like Tram I may need to look deeper.
Though I am a hyper-metaboliser of Tramadol, in that 150mg of Tram will have me higher than 60mg of Oxy or Morphine.
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wow, i must be the complete opposite. I dont get any opiate effects off it atall. I think i took 3 or 4 75mg iirc pills last time i tried and fely zilch on the opioid effects side.
 
SproutOnSmack said:
I'd kill, or at least maim, for some relief right now. I can deal with the physical shit (pun, pun, pun!) but the psychological bit is hitting. I walked straight past 5 opportunities to score today and felt proud, but now I feel terrible. I'll kick this shit one day.
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oh God i can relate to that. The suggestion of getting into computer games has been well received as a method of occupying your mind to distract you from some of the psycholical issues. I find that the hardest part to deal with. I know i need to give it more time for my brain to start adjusting to opiate sobriety. Thats what im struggling with.
 
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