Balls of Steel - Talking openly about drug use (esp. heroin)

[BlueHues]

The only people in the US who would probably ever run out of veins to have do that are IVing tar...In fact, never met a person on the east coast that had to resort to that...but I'm aware that you use different gear over there...

I was the one attacked and belittled here, and by a tea drinker no less! Had he said it differently, I wouldn't have reacted that way, but I will not take shit from someone that not only seemingly has no experience with the drug in question, but was not even in the womb when I had my first toke!

I never said heroin doesn't cause great harm. I've lost friends to it...I've suffered greatly myself, but all IV complication issues aside, its not nearly as harmful as many other drugs.

 

[wcote]

I'm confused. Who is a poppy tea drinking bitch?

Also who has belittled you?

 

[BlueHues]

Maybe I'm thinking of someone else, but aren't you a poppy tea enthusiast?

Besides the point, I'm done clogging this thread with petty gripes! But you did call me "naive"....bit insulting!

 

[wcote]

No you have me mixed up! I called one of your views naive, not you as a person naive, I apologise if you thought I meant the latter.

Either way I'd rather you didn't call me a bitch, its not very nice, I think we can all agree on that at least.

 

[brimz]

The only people in the US who would probably ever run out of veins to have do that are IVing tar...In fact, never met a person on the east coast that had to resort to that...but I'm aware that you use different gear over there...

I was the one attacked and belittled here, and by a tea drinker no less! Had he said it differently, I wouldn't have reacted that way, but I will not take shit from someone that not only seemingly has no experience with the drug in question, but was not even in the womb when I had my first toke!

I never said heroin doesn't cause great harm. I've lost friends to it...I've suffered greatly myself, but all IV complication issues aside, its not nearly as harmful as many other drugs.

Right so we have found some common ground here then . I have had 3 DVTs over 20 years & now have a degenerative condition called Post Thrombotic Syndrome which at this very moment is causing me considerable pain . Ironically it is worse in cold weather & having lived in Both California & The U.K yeah it's fukin cold , i have never been to the Midwest the furthest being Nevada so i have no idea apart what i have seen from a small segment on a Tv Documentary as to what Heroin you use & How you use it .

I do however know that there is a considerable difference in the way that folk have to score drugs in the States compared to England but again this varies from state to state .

I don't wish to engage in any tit for tat bullshit & i myself am a Tea Drinker & after going out to pick up my Methadone i will be enjoying a cuppa while finishing off the what Heroin is left on the foil from last night .

I agree that Heroin on it's own is a benign Drug but the law & Health authorities manage to create a using environment that makes consumption of Heroin far more dangerous than it should be .

Edit

My Post thrombosis Condition is so serious & painful that i actually get Oxy Instant release Nhs script on top of my Methadone.

 

[BlueHues]

^Im very sorry to hear that bud! I myself have a chronic condition caused by my use, but not by heroin itself....

I mean no disrespect....
Edit: and no I don't have HIV or anything like that...

But if complications and diseases aren't caused by the drug itself, my original point!

 

[brimz]

i am also lucky to have gambled n beat the odds with BBVs . Peace

 

[Fellowed]

I'm suggesting that the solution to the problems of heroin addiction won't be easily solve by handing out the drug. It may help limit certain health complications but there still exists the shackle of addiction itself, which shouldn't be underestimated.

I think the main point is that you start treating users addiction completely as a medical issue rather than a criminal one. Regardless of the user's situation this is a huge positive for society (if you believe the writings of Nick Davies, who I linked to on the previous page)..

Police reported a 96% reduction in acquisitive crime among a group of addict patients. Deaths from locally acquired HIV infection and drug-related overdoses fell to zero.

That service was run for over 10 years and to me seems like a huge success. I'd say it did more than help limit some of the health problems.

You're right that it isn't a cure for people's addictions, but at least it gives them a place they can go where they won't be judged and can receive help purely on a medical basis. I'd argue that a lot more people would get clean if they knew this kind of help was available to them. At the moment if you want help you have to interact with the same state which condemns you for it, which must be really off-putting to a lot of people.

There is also the factor of legitimate self medication. This is purely my own opinion but might some heroin addicts (and other addicts) not be able to function without it, and might well need it regardless of what help is available? If that is the case then that would still fall under the remit of legitimate medical use. Maybe they've experienced too much mental agony which they'll never be able to deal with? Or maybe they are in constant physical pain and need opiates in order to function?

 

[BecomingJulie]

I actually had the germ of an idea for a reality TV show based on taking a bunch of totally straight-arsed anti-drug Daily Mail-reading types and subjecting them to every aspect of the "junkie lifestyle" with the exception of actually scoring and using any actual drugs (or maybe they could be made to score and hand the stuff over for laboratory testing of strength, contaminants &c. -- ask the TV people about this, can we get some money from the science and documentaries budget maybe?) for a few weeks.

I don't know if anyone would last long enough to be able to put together a whole half-hour pilot episode, though.

 

[BlueHues]

@brimz
I am from New England in the US
I live in Nebraska, which isn't much to talk about.

Pretty sure the lifestyle is the same over there as it is on the East Coast US in regards to heroin.
I have met a few people using large gauge 3cc syringes in their femoral. I have good veins, and can still use my arms. I have a few friends running out of options in that area though. Im also a drug user that sticks to the few people I know well when it comes to getting high, I'm sure there's a great many I don't know about with the same issues.

 

[Marmalade]

I actually had the germ of an idea for a reality TV show based on taking a bunch of totally straight-arsed anti-drug Daily Mail-reading types and subjecting them to every aspect of the "junkie lifestyle" with the exception of actually scoring and using any actual drugs (or maybe they could be made to score and hand the stuff over for laboratory testing of strength, contaminants &c. -- ask the TV people about this, can we get some money from the science and documentaries budget maybe?) for a few weeks.

I don't know if anyone would last long enough to be able to put together a whole half-hour pilot episode, though.

Great idea. They should definitely be made to score tho. And before scoring take some form of pill that imitates WD symptoms

 

[Dark Side]

Problem with the daily mail types is they just cannot see anything from a different point of view to their own. the documentary would be pointless you wont change their views. its like talking to a brick wall

Humans at the the end of the day are just a series of input and outputs

And society is just not based on instant gratification, its based on working till you drop.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Are you saying heroin addicts aren't blinded by their prejudices also?

I'd argue that a lot more people would get clean if they knew this kind of help was available to them. At the moment if you want help you have to interact with the same state which condemns you for it, which must be really off-putting to a lot of people.

I'd argue that a lot more people would choose to continue their addiction if they had easier access to their drug of choice.

 

[knock]

Are you saying heroin addicts aren't blinded by their prejudices also?
I'd argue that a lot more people would choose to continue their addiction if they had easier access to their drug of choice.

But they do generally have easy access to the drugs of their choice. It's just that it's impure, of variable strength, and costs a lot more than it would do if they were getting through legitimate means.

Fellowed's argument was that "at least it gives them a place they can go where they won't be judged and can receive help purely on a medical basis". It's the judgement free medical help that he was emphasising, not the easier access to the drug.

I believe what you did is called "straw manning"

 

[foolsgold]

ive always been very open with my drug use busted 6 times in 20 plus years of abuse and each time its been because I was grassed up and just got unlucky think it helps if the coppers know that you are just a user then the leave you alone

 

[Fellowed]

I'd argue that a lot more people would choose to continue their addiction if they had easier access to their drug of choice.

That might well be true for some, but are people really being put off their addiction due to lack of access? Is lack of access even an issue with heroin? At least if it's treated as a medical issue then you reduce crime and disease. No system is going to be perfect.

I can't speak for heroin addiction but with my own experiences with other substances, a drought just made me more likely to hammer myself when said substances arrived back on the scene.

 

[One Thousand Words]

But they do generally have easy access to the drugs of their choice. It's just that it's impure, of variable strength, and costs a lot more than it would do if they were getting through legitimate means.

Fellowed's argument was that "at least it gives them a place they can go where they won't be judged and can receive help purely on a medical basis". It's the judgement free medical help that he was emphasising, not the easier access to the drug.

I believe what you did is called "straw manning"

No, they suggested that easier access to heroin would mean they be more likely to get clean.

That is called talking from the hole in your arse

 

[knock]

No, they suggested that easier access to heroin would mean they be more likely to get clean.

Where exactly did they suggest that? Not in the quote you were responding to, anyway. I know reading is not your strong point but this is pretty basic stuff

 

[One Thousand Words]

?

I'd argue that a lot more people would get clean if they knew this kind of help was available to them. At the moment if you want help you have to interact with the same state which condemns you for it, which must be really off-putting to a lot of people.

Seems legit

 

[knock]

Let me help you out. Here is the quote with some context, the bit that came before it.

a place they can go where they won't be judged and can receive help purely on a medical basis. I'd argue that a lot more people would get clean if they knew this kind of help was available to them.