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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

The EADD Health, Sickness and Pain Thread - share what ails you here.

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Naproxen is brutal stuff. It's the most effective non-opioid painkiller I've tried (which is not saying much) but it's not up to dealing with chronic pain of any real significance (imo, ime, ymmv, etc, etc). Plus the fact it causes internal bleeding really very easily indeed. Pretty much as a matter of course, in fact. Needs to be taken with omeprazole or similar or it's just plain dangerous. If you can stomach it (literally) then good for you. I really can't though (I've had a stomach ulcer before and even two days on naproxen has me doubled up in agony even with omeprazole).

As for opioid painkillers not working after a while... yes and no. Some are worse than others for that. I'm currently on bupe for chronic pain and was on it for a couple or so years previously for opioid maintenance - I've never had to increase the dose to keep the analgesic effect effective.

As ever, YMMV, obviously.
 
Slight change in luck, I'm no longer nil by mouth and have been given some toast and marmite!

I've also been promised a camera up the bum, maybe tomorrow. Not sure if that's lucky or not but if it gets to the bottom (see, I can do it too) of this I'll take it like a man.
 
I didn't know that im worried. My mam has osteoperosis which is chronic long term pain n they gave her napraxen n I've always been told by professionals that opiate are not allowed for long term use cause of thread of addiction n them stopping working. I'm confused about bupe as I still get pain when I'm using bupe n have read from many people on BL that it isn't a very affective painkiller. I might do some research on all this once I've finished an assignment, in a few weeks very fascinating.

Tbh napraxon is in the same group as iboprufen NSAIDs so I did wonder if it caused stomach bleeds. Sorry to hear you had a stomach ulcer - sounds painful. God knows how I escaped one though, the amount of nurofen plus I was taking like 1-2 boxes a day. Maybe my mam takes the napr with the other stuff you mentioned.

Evey x
 
roganjosh said:
Slight change in luck, I'm no longer nil by mouth and have been given some toast and marmite!

I've also been promised a camera up the bum, maybe tomorrow. Not sure if that's lucky or not but if it gets to the bottom (see, I can do it too) of this I'll take it like a man.
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See now I'd call that mixed news at best and bitch like fuck about it. But you are not me and put it like that which is why you're a bit of a star :)

Eveleivibe said:
I'm confused about bupe as I still get pain when I'm using bupe n have read from many people on BL that it isn't a very affective painkiller.
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In case you are not familiar with abbreviations commonly used around BL, 'YMMV' means 'Your Mileage May Vary' - basically that everybody reacts differently to drugs so what effects one person reports may not necessarily apply to others. For me bupe is the best option for pain relief for a couple of reasons. Firstly and (for me most importantly) it just works. I am not in pain when I'm on bupe even when I've been taking it daily for a long time. Some breakthrough pain at time, of course, but not 24/7 as it is otherwise.

I've used more or less every opiate and opioid you could think of over the years and, whilst some are more effective initially, none has worked consistently for me like bupe does. You, your mam, anybody, everybody may find differently. It's all about finding what works best for the individual and is usually a balance of pros and cons.

I also have a long history of opi addiction and abuse so bupe is doubly useful in that I can't use other opies easily on top of it (or instead of it) even if I wanted to. Just helps when willpower may not always be enough.

And I really didn't mean to worry you about the naproxen. If your mother is not complaining of stomach problems then she probably isn't having them cos it really bloody hurts (a lot) if you don't tolerate naproxen well. You are correct that it is an NSAID like ibuprofen and aspirin - they are all hard on the gut but naproxen is the hardest of the lot. As I said, if one can stomach it then good for them. I just can't.
 
For opiates not working after time I too have found this to be yes and no.

For my bone pain I have never found opiates to decrease in effectiveness, this may be due to the fact that pain never really gets any worse. Unless of course something physically changes.

However for muscular pain I have found it can occur. However I'm never sure it because my muscular pain can gets worse due to flair ups due to many things, or if it is the opiates getting less effective.

What I find is whenever I can I decrease my opiate intake as much as possible, either so I'm in minimal pain or to keep WD at bay.

Basically its all about keeping the break through pain as controlled as possible. Talking of which I'm having a bad episode tonight, had two baths, ibuprofen (every little helps) plenty of codeine double my dose pregabalin. :\
 
Shambles thanks for explanation n no apologies necessary. I was going to ask what the acronym was but forgot lol. I had sciatica before my codeine addiction n during that time had an MRI scan that show a very large L5/S1 infusion. Is it possible that suboxone is blocking that or not it's gone? I havent gone a day without some form of opiate in me in the last two years lol so I'm not sure. But I get pain like headached nor when I'm having a tattoo (usual trivial pain) so I just assumed that it doesn't work in that way n that the sciatica has gone.

Fascinating stuff is all this :)
 
bunge said:
Hey guys, I dont usually post in EADD but I need some UK based advice on pain management please!.lol
I suffer with back pain (who doesnt?lol) both sciatica and upper back and neck pain with muscle spasms and various neuralgias.
My pain is classed as neuropathy (mainly) but GP thinks I may have mechanical pain as well, hence I have been referred to an orthopedic specialist for assessment.
Im currently taking dihydrocodeine 30mg upto 120mg daily, pregabalin 600mg daily (in two doses), co-codamol 30/500mg upto 8 a day and mirtazapine 45mg at night.
Sorry about all the background, I just wanted to give all the info up front.lol
My doctor has spoke about other pain med options after ive had my assessment (basically hishands are tied til then). He has hinted at morphine as an option as he doesnt think DHC er will cover my pain sine the ir versions are failing miserably recently.
My question is, is morphine a good way to go at my age? 28yrs old. Im not that old and morphine seems like a big step when I have years of pain ahead of me.
Are thier any other options that you guys think would be worth looking into? My GP is very open-minded and willing to discuss my options and ideas.
If morphine is the best option then I have no problem with it but I dont want to be shoved in that direction because its more cost effective, when a better medication is out there.
Any help appreciated, thanks in advance!.
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i'm worried about you taking all that medication. Would you be able to tell us the other options that your GP gave you?
 
I'm confused are you asking if the Suboxone?

In which yes it will help with the pain. Or have I missed your point?
 
Eveleivibe said:
Shambles thanks for explanation n no apologies necessary. I was going to ask what the acronym was but forgot lol. I had sciatica before my codeine addiction n during that time had an MRI scan that show a very large L5/S1 infusion. Is it possible that suboxone is blocking that or not it's gone? I havent gone a day without some form of opiate in me in the last two years lol so I'm not sure. But I get pain like headached nor when I'm having a tattoo (usual trivial pain) so I just assumed that it doesn't work in that way n that the sciatica has gone.

Fascinating stuff is all this :)
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Aha! I know what you were meaning now.

Headaches are actually exacerbated by opiates/opioids. I can't recall the exact reason why but it's a fundamental chemical thing, I do believe. They just don't work for that type of pain. OTC headache pills really are the most effective for headaches.

And things like getting a tattoo done will never be anything other than painful unless you use an anaesthetic.

The term 'painkiller' is grossly misleading really cos there are no drugs which actually 'kill' pain. Aside from anaesthetics but that's mainly cos you're unconscious. Analgesics - whether they be opies, NSAIDs or "other - simply reduce pain. As wcote mentions, opies are good for chronic pain cos they just keep it at a manageable level. Some doctors will prescribe a separate analgesic (often a more potent but shorter-acting opioid) for "breakthrough pain" which is pain over and above the level of chronic pain the patient has to deal with 24/7. Getting a tattoo is essentially breakthrough pain, I suppose, cos you are deliberately adding more pain (albeit for a purpose). Even if you are prescribed a different analgesic for breakthrough pain it only works cos you take it occasionally. Almost like taking more of your normal pain meds than usual - it's just an extra kick for use as and when required but it almost certainly won't actually completely remove pain cos, as I said, no drug can do that.
 
Yeah headaches are a nightmare! Basically you can get rebound headaches if you overuse painkillers for them. Even paracetamol by itself I believe can cause them.

When I was in hospital to have my appentics taken out I was in a lot of pain. So o got given 10mg morphine IV injected over a minute. It certainly helped me cus it took my mind off the pain cus I was nice and floaty. But the pain was not gone.

Spoke to a doctor about it, and he said a big part of opiate based painkillers in A+E is too distract people from the pain. Whilst they certainly help with the pain physically, a part is basically getting people nice and floaty so they care a lot less about the pain. It also helps keeping people calm about the situation.

Which is why he said even if they could block the pain completely using some new drug it would be all good and well, but without the part which keeps people a bit floaty they would have limited value in an A + E situation.
 
wcote said:
Spoke to a doctor about it, and he said a big part of opiate based painkillers in A+E is too distract people from the pain. Whilst they certainly help with the pain physically, a part is basically getting people nice and floaty so they care a lot less about the pain. It also helps keeping people calm about the situation.
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QFT.

In related news, I recently saw a thing about a whole new class of painkillers having been discovered. Based on snake (and quite possibly other) venom. Works in a completely different way to any current analgesics apparently - actually blocks pain at the receptor level (apologies to those that know if I've slightly mangled that explanation). Very little is actually known about how pain works considering how ubiquitous it is to the human experience. It's a very complex thing. Not as simple as other sensations we might wish to compare (which are actually incomparable in terms of how they work) like pressure or temperature and the like. Will be interesting to see what comes of this supposed new class of painkillers. Will people find them subjectively as effective as opies given they don't (afaik) have the "floaty" and detached thing working for them - nor indeed the euphoria and sedation? That stuff is most definitely a massive part of the overall subjective feeling of pain relief so will be interesting to see how people respond if these new ones do literally kill pain but nothing else.
 
Thanks SHM. I'll probably be offered sedation, but not sure to take it or not. It's kinda fun to watch on the screen, but also this skin tag and fissure (confirmed I have one yesterday) might make the scope painful.

This ward I'm on is fantastic. Not sure what it's specialism is but it's so quiet, I've not heard a peep out of anyone all night. In fact if I'd not had to get up every hour to use the loo (great fun with a drip stand btw) I'd have probably had the best nights sleep in ages. I think im being moved to "my" ward (the one I've spent 10 weeks on over the last year) today, just waiting for a bed to be available. It's much more noisy and chaotic there but I know all the nurses much better and I've built up good relationships with them so they treat me well. You know you've spent too long in hospital when you start looking forward to seeing the staff!

I'm kinda hoping once I've had the scope I'll be able to go home though, depends on the treatment. If it's steroid infusions (or worse, infliximab again) I guess I'll have to stay in. We'll see.
 
Hope all goes well for you today RoganJ. You must be a right trooper having to endure everything that you've had to go through, an inspiration mate.
Am off to hospital myself today for second cycle of chemo.So a nice day of sitting in a comfy chair reading my book & chatting to the OAPs who always have some good stories to tell.
 
I think a lot of people would welcome them if they're in busy jobs where they need to be clear headed n so forth. However, killing pain completing is not necessarily a good idea as people may do more than they'd be able to normal risking further injury.
 
maxalfie said:
Hope all goes well for you today RoganJ. You must be a right trooper having to endure everything that you've had to go through, an inspiration mate.
Am off to hospital myself today for second cycle of chemo.So a nice day of sitting in a comfy chair reading my book & chatting to the OAPs who always have some good stories to tell.
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I admire your attitude Max big respect .
 
maxalfie said:
Hope all goes well for you today RoganJ. You must be a right trooper having to endure everything that you've had to go through, an inspiration mate.
Am off to hospital myself today for second cycle of chemo.So a nice day of sitting in a comfy chair reading my book & chatting to the OAPs who always have some good stories to tell.
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Thanks Max, I could say the same about you, I would be a broken emotional wreck in your situation, but you seem to be taking it in your stride admirably.

Did you get the picc line put in alright in the end? Was it as hassle free as mine was?
 
Very true. I find myself winging over stuff I admit then I things like this, what Max is going through, the lives lost here (EADD), the floods in the UK, people who attend my local recovery group are in hostels/tents/temp accomodation n I realise I'm lucky. Sometimes it's good to take perspective n look at what others around us are going through. Max you're going through this yet I've seen you still have time for others , being supportive. I admire you don't think I could have handled things as you have.
Stupid question but how are you doing?
 
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