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Differences between nicotine and heroin

^That's the best description I think I've heard of the cigarette addiction experience, Dr.

I used to think that I just smoked because it gave me a sense of control. It sounds absurd, but it's just like you described: Scratching an itch feels nice. Then the itch gets worse, and scratching it feels even better. But you get to a point where it just plain sucks - scratch or don't scratch you just have a bloody wound which is constantly bothering you.

Now, if I can just think of a way to tie in the pilot analogy with the itch/scratch thing, and then link it all back to the topic... or maybe I'll just stop posting in this thread. Yeah, maybe I will...
 
Ha that was a good description. I like cigs but I don't need pure nicotine, I would have rather just had pure herion, if I could even find any that was really "pure".

And that whole nicotine burning the skin thing. I had no clue it was like that. Sorta blew my mind. Ha.
 
I know I said I was going to stop posting, but.. well, I lied.

I had to add that I happily ditched cigarettes once I tried a decent e-cig/vapourizer. Mixing up some bizarre flavour combos and putting the nicotine up means that it actually IS enjoyable and has a noticeable clarifying effect from the nicotine concentration.

Back when I smoked cigarettes heavily, I used to hate it because it made me depressed and just generally feel really shit. No such issues with the vape. Inhaling some steam a handful of times a day has been amazing and now I cannot go near cigarettes again. Last time I ran out of nicotine, I tried to smoke ciggs after the fourth day without, and couldn't do it. If there's no enjoyment to it, and with processed cigarettes there really isn't any, IMO, then I don't want to waste my health, money, and stink the place out.

And this:

I like cigs but I don't need pure nicotine, I would have rather just had pure herion

Well, yeah, so would i;)
 
Am I the only one who thinks cigarettes have changed? I used to enjoy the taste, now it just tastes like burnt paper and BBQed dog shit. I tried to quit cigs this week as I was quitting opiated but it was a bit too much, even though the taste of the cigs made me feel sick.
 
No, you're not the only one, they do now put BBQed dog shit in cigs, it's on google, but you have to use tor browser and log on to some very underground sites to find out that information. So keep it hush hush. But now you know.
 
No, I noticed that too. Lots of people did, and the anti-smoking brigade who introduced the plain-packaging system (which is far from plain, is it? Grotesque more like..) claimed that there had been no change to the processing of the cigs, but that it was all psychological. They claimed that people were having a psychological reaction to the off-putting packaging.

Bullshit. THey taste different. First thing I did was move the cigarettes into decorative cases, so I didn't have to see the pack for more than a minute.

Processed cigs went from pretty gross to just revolting. There's a huge push to get rid of smoking, by making it harder to find a place to smoke, making the cost of cigarettes exorbitant, making it socially unacceptable, and torturing people with utterly revolting imagery on the packs.

And while it's hard not to argue that smoking processed cigarettes is a very unhealthy and stinky habit, it's the fact that the government doesn't permit people to grow their own tobacco, or buy nicotine refills for e-cigs that irritates me. Sure, you can still smoke, but it has to be on the governments terms, and the fact there are healthier alternatives which are restricted or banned just makes it more offensive. There's a conflicted message about the real reason for demonising the smoking of processed cigs, while not allowing any alternatives which might damage the profitability of legal tobacco. It's just a case of 'do what we say, how we say'. And it's that attitude that I resent - the removal of free choice and options.
 
That said, in terms of impairment, heroin far surpasses nicotine. You can be addicted to nicotine and function as well as you could were you never addicted to nicotine. Heroin, not so much.

I don't agree with this statement at all. A heroin addict with a maintenance dose of heroin is no more or less impaired than a nicotine addict or a person without any addictions (if there is such a person). This is one major point that nobody ever seems to understand. The masses assume that using heroin will make you nod out, have slow reflexes, "lean" whatever when this is not the case at all. A standard dose will just get an addict back to "baseline", while providing a small amount of pleasure (mostly in the relief) it has no negative affect on a person's behaviour. This is the same with someone who is on a stable dose of bupe or methadone, or a pain patient on oxycodone or morphine. This is something that people will never understand unless they have been there, done that, so to speak. I don't expect anyone to understand unless they have.
 
Agreed, opi8.

If you've been addicted for a good while then the chances are that you don't high anymore. You just get sick, and then normal.

it has no negative affect on a person's behaviour.

Yes, some people are better off dealing with an opiate addiction. No anti-depressant or anti-anxiety med has ever come close to doing what opiates do. The amount of inner turmoil which is quietened by opiates means I can function with greater clarity and be a more sociable and generally happy person. The pay off is addiction, and everything that comes with that, but then again I was addicted to anti-depressants and other meds I was scripted which had shocking side-effects and were extremely hard to get off, so I don't see a big difference (except that opiates have far greater efficacy).

An opiate addict can function, so long as they have a regular supply, so normally that I'm sure there are way more out there in the world, doing jobs at all levels in all fields, than anyone could have imagined. Provided the person has some level of control over their use, and hasn't completely given up on their lives, then there aren't really any stand out telltale signs.

No smell of alcohol or weed, no staggering, no scatter-brain. Once you're truly dependent then dosing up is about the same as taking an anti-depressant or a blood pressure tablet - I mean in terms of how conspicuous it is.

Some people associate opiate addicts with the really down and out people who are on the street, begging for change, covered in scabs and shit, because they stand out. Those are the ones that you can see from a mile away.

But those are the minority of users who have got serious life issues and have pretty much resigned themselves to a never ending spiral, whereby getting the drug is top priority over all else. Those people frequently come from a background which has a lot of real tragedy; abuse, neglect, mental illness which hasn't been dealt with properly, family who don't care, etc. I know this from talking to them. They are lost souls.

People like myself, who have grown up with severe mental issues but always had supportive family and friends, have had the nurturing to see more in life than just taking a drug to numb the pain. If I have to go without because there's bills to be paid and we are low on funds, then that's what happens and I suffer for a while. I've been on and off enough times, for long periods of both using and of sobriety, to know that I simply am happier and function better while on. Do you know what people say when I confess to being an opiate addict? Always this: "I never would have picked you as being that type". To which I reply "What type?".

In this day and age there's still a stigma attached to opiates which is simply undeserved and out of date. If a light suddenly appeared above the head of all the regular users of some kind of opiate - be it codeine, or methadone, or heroin, or PST - I suspect we'd all be dazzled with the brightness, and enlightened somewhat.
 
Very well said Halif. I started opiates for the high. Eventually it was basically a self prescribed anti-depressant. Especially my latest run which was with PST. I didn't get high. It would just let me function and block shit out. Extremely unhealthy (emotionally, mentally and physically), but far more effective in the short term than any A/D I've ever been prescribed.

You can write it off as the easy way out, and in a lot of ways that is true - but at the end of the day if you have chronic and crippling mental issues you don't exactly feel spoiled for choices.
 
No, I noticed that too. Lots of people did, and the anti-smoking brigade who introduced the plain-packaging system (which is far from plain, is it? Grotesque more like..) claimed that there had been no change to the processing of the cigs, but that it was all psychological. They claimed that people were having a psychological reaction to the off-putting packaging.

Bullshit. THey taste different. First thing I did was move the cigarettes into decorative cases, so I didn't have to see the pack for more than a minute.

Processed cigs went from pretty gross to just revolting. There's a huge push to get rid of smoking, by making it harder to find a place to smoke, making the cost of cigarettes exorbitant, making it socially unacceptable, and torturing people with utterly revolting imagery on the packs.

And while it's hard not to argue that smoking processed cigarettes is a very unhealthy and stinky habit, it's the fact that the government doesn't permit people to grow their own tobacco, or buy nicotine refills for e-cigs that irritates me. Sure, you can still smoke, but it has to be on the governments terms, and the fact there are healthier alternatives which are restricted or banned just makes it more offensive. There's a conflicted message about the real reason for demonising the smoking of processed cigs, while not allowing any alternatives which might damage the profitability of legal tobacco. It's just a case of 'do what we say, how we say'. And it's that attitude that I resent - the removal of free choice and options.

could the taste in the cigs be from them making the FSC (fire safe cigarettes) cigarettes and getting rid of all cigs that were not firesafe. this started back inn 2009, in america at least, and they were all like this. every pack has FSC on the side of it. but since then they taste different, burn different, and they go out on you if you dont puff them down quick. its pretty annoying. but this summer when i was doing H really bad (quitting that now, been 2 weeks) i would nod out with a cig in my hand or id wake up with it on my shirt half smoked and out. so they did help me not burn myself, my bed, or my house down to the ground but that was the only good thing about them. now that im not nodding out all the time i dont need that and i want my original cigs back.
 
No, I noticed that too. Lots of people did, and the anti-smoking brigade who introduced the plain-packaging system (which is far from plain, is it? Grotesque more like..) claimed that there had been no change to the processing of the cigs, but that it was all psychological. They claimed that people were having a psychological reaction to the off-putting packaging.

Bullshit. THey taste different. First thing I did was move the cigarettes into decorative cases, so I didn't have to see the pack for more than a minute.

Yeah I did notice it as well. I no longer smoke tobacco tho, but I was when that happened, and I distinctly recall what you say happening. It just tasted different, and it was very weird at the start, worse for sure.
 
No, I noticed that too. Lots of people did, and the anti-smoking brigade who introduced the plain-packaging system (which is far from plain, is it? Grotesque more like..) claimed that there had been no change to the processing of the cigs, but that it was all psychological. They claimed that people were having a psychological reaction to the off-putting packaging.

Bullshit. THey taste different. First thing I did was move the cigarettes into decorative cases, so I didn't have to see the pack for more than a minute.



I buy pouches of tobacco and roll my own. Definitely didn't notice a difference when they went to plain packaging. Very odd that people noticed a difference and my first thought would have been psychological because of the packaging...why else would it change? Manufacturers are still the same, cigarettes still made on the same production lines. Could have been them making them fire safe if that came in at the same time.
 
Yeah, I think the pouches are still alright. I always did prefera rollie to a processed stick. But some can roll and others can't. I suck. I've practised enough to not suck, but I just can't get it right all the time.

The fire-safe comment was a very interesting point. That's as good an explanation as anything else I've heard.

I simply don't buy into the plain packagin changing people's perception of taste. That's akin to saying: " You don't know what you're experiencing". WHo can make that claim about another person? A god?
 
I simply don't buy into the plain packagin changing people's perception of taste. That's akin to saying: " You don't know what you're experiencing". WHo can make that claim about another person? A god?

Yeah I know what you mean and I'd hesitate before making a blanket statement like that. Taste is so subjective and can be influenced by all sorts of psychological processes, including sight. It does seem odd that so many people apparently noticed it though. I could never stand pre-rolled cigs EVER, so don't have any experience with them changing or not. I've read studies where changes of packaging/colour changes peoples perception of taste with food, so I think it's possible with the cigs but not sure how likely.

The plain packaging is silly agreed. I've gotten used to the disgusting photos of disease/dying people - well and truly desensitized from it :)

That said I really need to quit smoking. Been getting puffed out way too easily.
 
Yeah, I think the pouches are still alright. I always did prefera rollie to a processed stick. But some can roll and others can't. I suck. I've practised enough to not suck, but I just can't get it right all the time.

The fire-safe comment was a very interesting point. That's as good an explanation as anything else I've heard.

I simply don't buy into the plain packagin changing people's perception of taste. That's akin to saying: " You don't know what you're experiencing". WHo can make that claim about another person? A god?

A scientist, but god's close enough :D
Seriously though, it's very very very well documented that people really don't have even a close to objective perception of taste/experience. Personally I have no idea if they've gotten worse, they seem the same to me, but I can't tell coke and Pepsi apart so what do I know?

As for heroin vs nicotine.
One's addictive, very deadly, and generally not worth the risk from beginning to end.
And the other ones heroin.

Damn and I was trying to be serious...
 
JessFR, you are right. I know that you weren't being serious because you said the other one is heroin. In fact, that must be a typo.

Nicotine, if you read any of this thread is: addictive, deadly and generally not worth the risk from beginning to end.
 
Just as a quick response to posts about cigarettes tasting differently...

Recently I've been doing some research on tobacco in Australia, and I stumbled across a transcript from 2006.

One line that really took me was this.

http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1946382.htm said:
JOHN MURACA: The manufacturers are able to bring down the Australian content of the cigarette from 57 per cent to just on 12 per cent last year. So they were able to do that without the consumer realising they weren't smoking tobacco with Australian tobacco in it. So it wasn't very hard to go from 12 per cent to nothing. While rising production costs, especially for fuel to power machinery, and for running tobacco kilns, had trimmed profit margins, in economic returns, no crop came close to tobacco.

Now the reason this got me thinking was, back in 2005, I was 15 at the time and had been smoking for about 3 years already. Peter Jackson Gold and Peter Jackson Blue. I was the only person I know who noticed the change. I would swear black and blue for 12 months they changed the ingredients.

I was a small town fat kid. Nobody listened to me. Plus I had nothing to give them. I had no idea about wealth - the limitlessness of it's acquisition or power - it's ability to be wielded for or against others for control or authority - The power wealthy give those they control.

When you understand those three things you will understand the way our world operates and has operated for the last few thousand years.

My own personal first, cast & confirmed conspiracy fact.

-Ahkei
 
I needed to see an article like that.
When plain packaging came in, I noticed both the taste and quality of Champion to have degraded.
I was getting more crud/chunks in my pouches with a different taste.

I've found tobacco made in Europe (UK, NL) and NZ to be better quality than the stuff coming from Thailand.
 
No, I noticed that too. Lots of people did, and the anti-smoking brigade who introduced the plain-packaging system (which is far from plain, is it? Grotesque more like..) claimed that there had been no change to the processing of the cigs, but that it was all psychological. They claimed that people were having a psychological reaction to the off-putting packaging.

Bullshit. THey taste different. First thing I did was move the cigarettes into decorative cases, so I didn't have to see the pack for more than a minute.

Processed cigs went from pretty gross to just revolting. There's a huge push to get rid of smoking, by making it harder to find a place to smoke, making the cost of cigarettes exorbitant, making it socially unacceptable, and torturing people with utterly revolting imagery on the packs.

A glorious testament to the power of marketing :D

Why would tobacco companies, who fought tooth and nail to STOP plain packaging and are STILL currently trying to sue the government over it, collude with the very same government to make their product less appealing to their already rapidly shrinking customer base?
 
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