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Codeine & CWE (aka cdub) Megathread: third time's the charm

footscrazy said:
I use dxm on and off - I'd use it all the time except I find the cost hard to justify sometimes. I think it's the best potentiator but I couldn't say whether it's prevented tolly increase. Not noticably, anyway. Nothing beats ultra low dose naltrexone for preventing tolerance increase in my eyes; I've experienced excellent results with that.



I've seen this said now and again but I don't think I've ever seen any elaboration on which ingredients would cause damage and how. I'd be interested to know more :)

I think the tolerance issue you bring up regarding dxm is important and potentially a significant long term harmful effect of dxm use. Other claims for long term damage from regular use seem to be all over the place though and fairly inconclusive, and usually based on much higher, threshold doses rather than the relatively small amounts used in potentiation. That being said I wouldn't advocate daily use as it could well be harmful.
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In the interests of HR I may as well fess up.

At one stage I was consuming DXM on a daily basis, once my tolerance got used to 30mg I moved on to 60mg a day.

This is where a problem started. First I noticed midway through a day at work I'd get the runs that absolutely burnt the crap outa my backside. I thought I was just slipping into wd's a little quicker than usual, so put up with it, untill I got so bad I needed time off work. After a process of elimination I discovered it was my daily DXM use. I'm still in slight recovery atm, but since I stopped daily use it's been getting heaps better. I'm not so scared to go to the toilet now, lol.

I have a feeling it's got to do with it reducing mucus in your system (this is just a geuss, haven't wanted to put much time and effort studying this lovely subject).

So I don't know what exactly caused it, but being more careful with my dxm use helped immensely.

Honestly thought my opiate career was coming to an early end.
 
Chookmaster7 said:
I think it's because I look like a stoner that they take my details. If I got someone that looked sober and maintained to buy them for me I'm sure they wouldn't ask details.
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I have the same problem, nobody ever sells me sufafed, and when buying panadeine i'm always asked for my bloody drivers licence. There is no legislation or common practice that they should ask you for photo ID that i'm' aware off. If they think you look like scum you get treated differently. I suppose it's reasonnabe but like fuck am I going to dress up or change my appearance for a chemist chick.
 
Popped into my local pharmacy yesterday, needed some pain killing action for my migraine.

Noticed a new sticker on the pack that states: ONLY USE FOR 3 DAYS - CAN BECOME ADDICTIVE.

First time I've been asked for an address at this pharmacy too.

So something's changed..... Not much though.
 
bobbydarren said:
....There is no legislation or common practice that they should ask you for photo ID that I'm' aware off. If they think you look like scum you get treated differently.....
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Firstly, being treated "differently" just because of the way you dress, I would call grounds for a complaint! Your clothing has nothing and says nothing of who you are, what you do, etc. (for all they know, you're a billionaire dropping in just in an old jumper and trackies! 8) )

Regarding the pharmacists request for identification, products containing pseudoephedrine (as well as few other compounds) are classified as S3: Pharmacy only medication. Which of course means these types of drugs can only be sold in a pharmacy with explicit advice on the correct use (very few pharmacies strictly adhere to this. For example, often pseudoephedrine containing products will be sold by other staff and the pharmacist just gets a heads up that they're selling said product). New legislation was introduced in 2006, which gave the power for a pharmacy to record identification for selected S3R ("recordable") meds. And of course along with this, came the power to refuse sale if the customer doesn't (want to) comply.

You could of couse chose to purchase SudoPE (Phenylephrine) however even I would say this is no better than placebo! I have read a fair number of articles on the efficacy of each drug and studies using direct comparison and majority of the literature does sway (strongly) toward Phenylephrine being effective not in the least! I don't buy it. And if I get refused sale (even with showing ID), I have no issue going to the next pharmacy down the road!

Of course this was implemented as a (very weak and ineffective) means of reducing large numbers of pseudoephedrine containing products to customers as a way of combating the methamphet trade. However this method is flawed in a number of ways and is a band-aid solution.

Basically, the pharmacist was most definitely following the rules in this case (sucky as it maybe).

Gimme a bit, I'll find sources. :)
 
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Captain Brewster said:
Popped into my local pharmacy yesterday, needed some pain killing action for my migraine.....
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Hey Captain, can I ask what exactly you were purchasing?

I'll try and find out if anything has come through to the pharmacies (eg, additions to "special-case" S3 drugs like pseudo.)


Edit: Guh! Forgot how much I hate trawling through legislative documents! lol. Anyway....

Scheduling basics {Maybe help but I'm sure you're past this}
http://www.tga.gov.au/industry/scheduling-basics.htm#.UsP6SbQZ6Zg

Over the past number of years theres been a number of reclassification of lower scheduled drugs to higher and/or under only certain conditions;

*Bromhexine
*Codeine
*Dextromethorphan
*Guaiphenesin
*Ibuprofen
*Paracetamol
*Pholcodine
*Pseudoephedrine
*Sedating antihistamines - chlorpheniramine maleate, dexchlorpheniramine maleate, diphenhydramine hydrochloride, doxylamine succinate, promethazine hydrochloride and triprolidine hydrochloride

For instance codeine will be classified as S2 or S3 dependant on set configurations/solutions;

According to Australian ComLaw, Poisons Standard 2013


SCHEDULE 2

CODEINE in preparations for the treatment of coughs and colds when:

(a) not combined with any other opiate substance;
(b) compounded with one or more other therapeutically active substances, of which at least one is phenylephrine and not more than one is an analgesic substance:
(i) in divided preparations containing 10 mg or less of codeine per dosage unit; or​
(ii) in undivided preparations containing 0.25 per cent or less of codeine;​
(c) labelled with a recommended daily dose not exceeding 60 mg of codeine; and
(d) in packs containing not more than 6 days' supply at the maximum dose recommended on the label.


SCHEDULE 3

CODEINE when:

(a) not combined with any other opiate substance;
(b) compounded with one or more other therapeutically active substances, of which not more than one is an analgesic substance:
(i) in divided preparations containing 12 mg or less of codeine per dosage unit; or​
(ii) in undivided preparations containing 0.25 per cent or less of codeine;​
(c) labelled with a recommended daily dose not exceeding 100 mg of codeine; and
(d) in packs containing not more than 5 days' of supply at the maximum dose recommended on the label,

except when included in Schedule 2.
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Now regarding pseudoephidrine, legistlation based on Australian Controlled Substances (Poisons) Regulations 2011, page 9


14—Special provisions relating to sale or supply of pseudoephedrine

(1) A person must not sell or supply pseudoephedrine unless a prescribed identification document or a birth certificate is produced by the person to whom the pseudoephedrine is to be sold or supplied.
Maximum penalty: $3 000.
(2) A person who sells or supplies pseudoephedrine must make and keep a record of the following information:[/indent]
(a) the name and address of the person to whom the pseudoephedrine is being sold or supplied;​
(b) the form of prescribed identification document produced by the person to whom the pseudoephedrine is being sold or supplied;​
(c) the unique identification number (if any) on the prescribed identification document produced;​
(d) the date of the sale or supply;​
(e) the directions given for the safe and proper use of the pseudoephedrine;​
(f) the trade name or the approved name of the pseudoephedrine being sold or supplied, or, if it does not have either a trade name or approved name, its ingredients and the form, strength and quantity sold or supplied;​
(g) a unique identifier enabling those records to be linked with the pseudoephedrine sold or supplied.​
Maximum penalty: $3 000.
(3)Subregulations (1) and (2) do not apply in relation to—
(a) the sale of pseudoephedrine by wholesale; or​
(b) the sale or supply of pseudoephedrine in the course of professional practice by—​
(i) a registered health practitioner other than a pharmacist; or a veterinary surgeon.​
(4) A person who makes a record under subregulation (2) must keep it in an electronic form that is accessible via the internet by the Chief Executive and the Commissioner of Police.
Maximum penalty: $3 000.
(5) In this regulation—
Australian student identification card means a card issued by an Australian educational institution to identify a person studying at the institution;
birth certificate of a person means a certified copy of, or extract from, a register of births kept under an Australian law, or under the law of the country in which the person was born;
driver's licence means—
(a) a driver's licence issued under the Motor Vehicles Act 1959; or​
(b) an interstate licence, interstate learner's permit or foreign licence within the meaning of that Act;​
prescribed identification document means a current—
(a) driver's licence; or​
(b) firearms licence; or​
(c) passport (other than an Australian passport); or​
(d) proof of age card; or​
(e) Australian student identification card, that bears a photograph of the holder;​
proof of age card means a proof of age card issued by the Registrar of Motor Vehicles or by a corresponding public authority of another State or a Territory of the Commonwealth.
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So,

Just wondering. How long on average does it take to become addicted to this stuff? I've taken it pretty much every day for a ce weeks, possibly up to a month. But only in the evenings before bed, and a fair few times not enough to be a feeling from it.
Is this enough to gt withdrawal s? I don't feel the high is that powerful, just a subtle nice warm feeling. I don't crave it, but I still do it every night. It's wily accessible where I am.

I kno it's dangerous, but soon I won't have access to it and I'll forget about it pretty quick.
 
IME, different people will take to codeine differently. Depends on your dose. While you may not experience any physical withdrawals you may mentally crave it and that can be enough to get you hooked.

I have seen it taken for a month or two pretty heavily and then just stopped cold turkey with no problem though.

If you're worried, quit while you're ahead!
 
Captain Brewster said:
Popped into my local pharmacy yesterday, needed some pain killing action for my migraine.

Noticed a new sticker on the pack that states: ONLY USE FOR 3 DAYS - CAN BECOME ADDICTIVE.

First time I've been asked for an address at this pharmacy too.
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Yep, seems to have come in for the new year, noticed it at a few pharmacies in the days leading up to dec 31st but presume they were just getting started early.

Hasn't changed the law really, but I think it's served as a wakeup call to alot of pharmacies... Definitely noticed recently alot more are recording ID details - none have ever actually asked my for ID though, just name + address, without any verification.


So something's changed..... Not much though. Not all pharmacies have been adding the '3 days use only, may cause addiction' stickers though - perhaps it's a voluntary program signed up to on an individual basis, perhaps organised by the pharmacists guild or whatever...
 
Captain Brewster said:
Popped into my local pharmacy yesterday, needed some pain killing action for my migraine.

Noticed a new sticker on the pack that states: ONLY USE FOR 3 DAYS - CAN BECOME ADDICTIVE.

First time I've been asked for an address at this pharmacy too.

So something's changed..... Not much though.
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bought a pack of some generic brand paracetamol/codeine 500mg/15mg x 40tabs and noticed the sticker also, first time seeing that. no address or details taken, they pretty much know me anyway due to the daily visits over a whole year for my diazepam taper.
 
Its a voluntary initiative. Nurofen Plus will soon have the three days use printed on the packets. In the mean time pharmacies have been issued with stickers. The makers of Nurofen Plus are hoping other manufacturers will follow suit. But I wouldn't worry because their motivation is to be seen as proactive in harm minimisation to avoid rescheduling of the drugs.


NP_with-warning-sticker-1_1.jpg
 
If they really want to be proactive in harm reduction, remove the fucking ibuprofen/paracetemol :|
 
Very interesting, Dr. And makes perfect sense. The last thing a pharmacy - a business first and foremost - wants is for people to stop buying their tablets.

I found a pharmacy that I adore, because the staff - pharmacists included - actually seem to understand the customer/merchant nature of the whole thing. They are not reckless and handing shit out willy nilly, but they don't give me the third degree when I go there and have only ever asked me once why I was buying generics seemingly often.

I told them (the truth at that time) that I lived in a house with three other people, and we had a communal medicine box, and that we liked the extra strength ones (15mg codeine) because we didn't like consuming loads of paracetamol. Additionally, I explained that I can't tolerate NSAIDs like aspirin or ibuprofen because they give me a shocking stomach ache, even in standard doses (also true).

The pharmacist listened and then... simply gave me the pack and has never asked again. I was so happy I nearly proposed right there. So what if she was about 25 years my senior! She was acting like a reasonable human being and simply doing her job. That's where I go now - for everything; vitamins, nasal spray, etc.

They will get all my business for as long I'm here and they're open because to not be judged and looked down on is a wonderful thing, and is all too rare.

PS. I don't look like a stoner, or anything else. I just look like a bland individual. I also make eye contact and smile a lot - but I do that for everyone. I guess I'm just a nice junk head... I mean, guy;)
 
I love pharmacists who understand the customer/merchant relationship. As far as I'm concerned I'm in there as just another customer. If they don't want to sell me something, I'll take my business elsewhere. I don't need moral / life guidance - reasonable questions like have you used it before are legitimate hr inquiries which I think are fair.

I really don't have a problem with the system as it is - I've never not even once been denied or grilled to hard (I once mistook a chemists foul mood for suspicion but realised after it was her not me.)

Actually once I had a good chat with a young chemist about patency, potency and availability of OTC codeine products when I went in to get something. It seemed she had an inkling of what I was getting up to but didn't mind (she probably liked the odd taste herself!) it was great.
 
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