Lysergamides White fluff LSD vs Needlepoint LSD

[Dr Mamba]

Just to try and imagine something beside black or white, "LSD is LSD" vs "there is dirty acid".

Acid chemistery is not the easeast.
Imagine i'am not a skilled chemist.
I buy ergotamine, or LSA or whatever lysergic precursor.
I'm a bad chemist, i only get 10% LSD as a result.
So what to do, trash it ?
No, if i whant 100mcg blotter, i just lay them with 1 mg powder.
Result is as strong than 100mcg pur stuff blotter, but there is 900 mcg LSA or whatever in it.
It's enough to make the blotter have a distinc tast, ad to add a little more bodyload ( I suppose that 1 mg LSA give some little nausea and vasonstriction).
Stupide assumption?

 

[BlueHues]

This is actually a discussion that's been argued on this and many other internet forums many times over the years...and I swore I'd never get involved in it again...

These days more than ever, you can't be sure that you're getting is what it's being represented as...

If the idea of there being different types of LSD crystal of varying levels of quality is just a bullshit urban legend, whoever dreamed it up sure fooled a lot of people, not just a couple kids who happened to score a ten strip....

People who were actually laying the blotter paid higher prices for "fluff", when fluff wasn't available they bought other, cheaper crystal and people like me subsequently got a price break as well....

This would mean that, the people perpetrating this fraudulent claim of there being different kinds of LSD crystal were the high level distributors themselves, which the only explanation I can come up with for this....maybe they wanted everyone in the whole scene to believe the LSD was coming from several different sources instead of just a few....

As far as the different media that the LSD was put on for distribution, historically that's been the only means people have had to identify if what they were getting was any good...If 12 different people tell you that the "blue pokemons" were good, well...it's a good indicator that the LSD with that print probably is good...

Assumptions about LSD based on the chemistry behind LSD absent any practical, empirical knowledge in the real world rings hollow to me...Nobody 20 years ago would have believed the RC on blotter thing that's happening now was real...

If some kid told you that someone gave them a hit of acid that lasted 18 hours with intense visuals but felt completely different from LSD and they were sure it was something different 20 years ago, they would have been laughed at and dismissed as having an overactive imagination, or called a liar...

With that, I am done with this discussion, don't leave the thread open on account of me....

 

[flat-line]

I am on the fence about the whole LSD debate now days.

I did a lot of LSD in the 90s and hung out around hippies where multiple varieties of LSD were always around.

Most of the LSD floating around back then was on paper. Many people had their own prints and paper and would try to control them so they would have a reputation. Much of the paper was given to people that purchased a gram of crystal or kept by people laying crystal. Paper was harder to get in the days before the internet, it usually hard for people to counterfeit it in a short period of time.

Their were some big players especially on dead tour and you would see the same paper all over the country and it would be pretty consistent. The next season they would change prints and the new paper would be all over again, spreading like wildfire as dead tour went from town to town.

Back in those days the standard paper(the latest prints to flood the market) was usually pretty good and constant. There would also be a small verity of other papers, vials, tooth picks, or what ever LSD could be put on going around, some were good some were not as good but it was usually all LSD just weaker or stronger.

Certain “batches” of LSD did seem to give people common poor experiences, dim visuals headaches, sore muscles, hangovers. Was it all imaginary ?
The only time I had a poor experience was from Black Gels and some stuff on green paper which a lot of other people also did and most came to the conclusion they were poor after they were floating around for a couple of weeks.

I used to get sheets put them in the freezer and get pretty constant trips from them. I did LSD a lot and would usually get the same smell, feel, taste(the taste of tripping not ingestion) and colors from it. The couple of poor experiences I had the visuals, taste and feel were different.

I haven't done LSD for more then 10 years so I really can't say anymore. Doing some pure compounds and researching substances on the internet has put me into the solid belief that a chemical is a chemical. But I also believe that impurities can alter chemical experiences. The impurities in LSD are small and some claim they have no effect but how deep has this been explored and studied? Too many people on the internet copy paste this and that and claim it pwns all.

Were thousands of people with common experiences all delusional ? Were people that had long intimate experience with LSD just hypnotized by the paper and the weather ?

I would like to revisit LSD now that I am older with more years of mind altering connoisseur experience but the days of decent LSD floating around my area are over. So I just don't have a set belief at this point..

 

[LSD Cruiser]

The impurities have been studied. This isn't cut and paste science... it's the facts. Shulgin for instance writes in TiKHAL:

d-iso-LSD shows no psychological changes at an oral dose of 4 milligrams; l-LSD none at up to 10 milligrams orally; and l-iso-LSD none at 500 micrograms orally.

Nichols did further research into this subject with rats and is published academically somewhere. lumi-LSD appears as a result of light degradation typically. Inactive.

Don't know what more needs to be said on the subject. You either believe the scientists who made their living working with LSD or you don't.

One thing I notice is lower dosages of LSD tend to give me more pronounced body load than higher dosages. I hypothesize this is what causes people with "dirty" acid (aka lower dose LSD) to have more body effects and therefore think it is a result of impurities.

 

[flat-line]

Don't know what more needs to be said on the subject. You either believe the scientists who made their living working with LSD or you don't.

Who makes a “living working with LSD” ? Who pays for that ? The DEA ? Labor ready ?

Have people tested every single impurity that can be produced in a batch of LSD ? And how many people have tested this ? one guy ? One web page ?

Or just as far as you have seen on the Internet ?

Like I said -

Too many people on the internet copy paste this and that and claim it pwns all.

 

[BlueHues]

I know there's people on BL, maybe some people in this thread who have a working knowledge of chemistry nd have maybe synthed a few different drugs themselves, but I get the feeling it's mostly upstart self-taught 18 year olds that I end up arguing with on here....

If you've never made or tested LSD yourself, what do you fucking know? Just because you think something's not possible based on what you've read, doesn't mean that there's no validity to it...

the grateful Dead was basically a travelling LSD party that lasted for 30 years...The biggest community of psychedelic users in modern history....

If one person on this thread came forward and said...oh IDK...I raved for several years and have sampled multiple batches of LSD and I think it's all the same, and you've read up on the science, I'd have a little more respect for what you're saying....

but this whole argument is analgous to someone who's studied the dynamics of how a curveball works arguing with a major league pitcher....

It's been well known for years that "Ecstasy" could contain a whole laundry list of different active chemicals in addition to MDMA or MDA....People on here like to talk all the time about how improperly made heroin has left over morphine and other things in it that may responsible for the subjective differences in experience between batches...

People just become so derisive and angry when anyone mentions dirty acid...and like I said, if one person, with the exception of Ismene, who I know was using LSD before I was born, came forward and actually revealed that they had extensive experience with LSD in real life and thought it was all the same, I'd have no problem with...reading TIKHAL or fucking PIKHAL or whatever else does not make you an expert on psychedelic drugs...

I also love it how everyone seems to be saying that it's possible that there's variations in OTHER drugs, but its simply not possible with LSD...because we're talking about micrograms, and there's no by-product of LSD synthesis that produces anything active in large enough amounts to account for "dirty acid"...

We're talking about clandestine manufacture of LSD by people using whatever they could get their hands on, using improvised lab equipment...not Alexander Shulgin

Also, you can absorb a lot on blotter paper....

 

[LSD Cruiser]

I am telling you as an organic chemist with a decent (although could be better) understanding in chemical reactions, purification is vital at every step of LSD synthesis so as not to end up with a bullshit inseparable polymer that may or may not be toxic. The likelihood of anything other than LSD and iso-LSD making an appearance at synthesis is extremely unlikely. This is based on every synthesis of LSD clandestine and legitimate that I've seen published as well as a few other routes devised hypothetically by yours truly. The effects of iso-LSD, while not vastly explored, are at this point confirmed to have no effects at all at dosages as high as 4 milligrams, over 200x the threshold dose of LSD. Truly I would go step-by-step and point out to you what can and can not happen in an LSD synthesis but this would be against the Bluelight guidelines (no discussion of synthesis.) If anyone can think of a byproduct other than iso-LSD that appears at synthesis or any other decomposition products than the ones known, than this discussion could prove useful.

Blue since you like to rely on appeal to authority, just look at my username LSD Cruiser. I have vast experience with tripping on LSD in liquid, blotter, microdot, etc... I've used my academic status to send in more samples of LSD for GC/MS analysis than I can count. I've read even more.....Never found anything that can't be called LSD as a result.

 

[BlueHues]

^Okay then, thank you! I don't know how to account for "dirty acid" then...other than to say maybe some of it wasn't LSD at all, or the weakness of it made it seem to have unpleasant side effects...

 

[infantannihilator]

^Okay then, thank you! I don't know how to account for "dirty acid" then...other than to say maybe some of it wasn't LSD at all, or the weakness of it made it seem to have unpleasant side effects...

There really are so many factors at play that you cant account for when it comes to the drug interacting with your body. Just look at the image someone posted of all the different receptors targetted.

I don't have much LSD use so I can't comment, but I have experienced differences with the same batch of substance with different chems like 2c-i and even marijuana which is probably sounds absolutely ridiculous to some people. I've done 2c-i at 20mg a few times in the same fashion and sometimes Ive been super nauseous and puked and other times I didnt really feel even a twinge.

Ive been reading the thread but no one has really summed it up like this: with the dose range for lsd, there aren't really any other possible toxins at such a low dose that would possibly have any effect that you would actually notice unless the shit just wasnt lsd at all, and then you're guess is as good as mine. I think the idea that someone would purposely contaminate a dose of lsd after the fact, if they could find something toxic that fit on a blotter that small, is pretty dumb, and as im sure you know, would be bad for business.

The power of the brain is unbelievable.. in alexander shulgins book pihkal he mentions a time when he was in the army overseas and something happened and he was given a cup of liquid and told it was an anesthetic. he drank it, and had whatever minor surgery he needs (I completely forget what the exact cirumstance was), and felt no pain, and then after the fact it was revealed to him that he had just drank sugar water, there was no anesthetic.. I honestly find this impossible to wrap my head around, but there are crazier stories about the mind playing tricks on people so you just gotta keep an open mind.

I'm glad you've begun to open up to what people are saying and realize that no one was "talking shit" to you or trying to diss your experiences.. we're all here to learn and hopefully to educate others where we can, and you'll never learn anything if you're never open to at least hear someone out

 

[BlueHues]

If there's no known way that it can be synthed with any active by-products, there's really nothing that I can say about it...I just wish someone had come out and said that...

 

[infantannihilator]

If there's no known way that it can be synthed with any active by-products, there's really nothing that I can say about it...I just wish someone had come out and said that...

well, part of it is that this discussion has been had time and time and time and time and time again, so for a lot of people here its just a crapshoot topic and sarcasm and just being a bit of a dick comes into play, especially when someone who was in your shoes is being a bit of an abrasive prick themselves

you'll notice on the first page I mentioned that this was done before just a few months back and one of the mods linked to a few threads with the same subject.

its just people don't want to abandon what they've always been led to believe.. you grow up hearing things and you attribute them to be fact because they said it and people they know said it, and everyone says it, so it just comes across as accepted and true fact.. thats the major problem with drug culture in general.

Look at the thread a kid posted about his friend taking nbome 7 times a week.. everyone here is absolutely shocked to hear that given the deaths and other stuff, and we genuinely told the kid that no one really knows any sort of long term effects, but we did relay what we do know about general phychedelic abuse.. kid tells his friends, and his friends tell him he is lying and making shit up and that they're fine because to them, they've taken this stuff like crazy and have yet to have any sort of adverse reactions, at least that they know of or are aware of so far.. I don't wish anything negative upon anyone, but eventually something bad will happen to one of their friends as a result of nbome abuse, and that will probably be what finally snaps everyone into realizing that its not as safe as they had assumed.. and its an absolute shame that shit has to come to that before people smarten up

I can't blame you for feeling the way you did, or even possibly still do

 

[Dr Mamba]

purification is vital at every step of LSD synthesis so as not to end up with a bullshit inseparable polymer that may or may not be toxic.

Well, thats the point.
They may be people who make LSD and end with inseparables byproducts, but at least enough LSD tu use the result.
I know i have to be vague about chemistery, and i dont think this may work, but an exemple :
One pot LSD in my kitchen :
amide + base -> lysergic salt, all stay in pot, evaporate dry well
add anhydre solvant, add strong acid/coupling agent, then add Et2Nh in anhydre solvant and wait.
Filter, let the solvant evaporate, acidify, add alcool, lay blotters.

There may be some LSD in it (dont know), but not much, so you put 3 mg/blotter.
There will be byproducts with physiologic effect at this dosage ( original amids stay inchanged in the pot, ... ) , 1-2 mg, perhaps enough to alter the trip, like in canabis very poorely actives canabinoids may affect the way THC acte (indica vs sativa).

 

[infantannihilator]

Quite honestly I dont understand why we can't talk about synthesis.. in my opinion the common person without any sort of understanding of chemistry could never attempt such a thing even with detailed plans in front of them. I say this as a common person with little understanding of chemistry outside of my 12th grade chem classes in highschool where anything we did was so simplistic and didnt even touch on any of the techniques that a true chemist knows, and rightfully so..

I can read all the synthesis' in pihkal and tihkal and understand whats going on.. but to properly execute such synthesis? no way, thats way beyond me.

And I mean, any sort of chemistry related board would likely not discuss synthesis' either lol (though I could be wrong..)

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

Quite honestly I dont understand why we can't talk about synthesis.. in my opinion the common person without any sort of understanding of chemistry could never attempt such a thing even with detailed plans in front of them. I say this as a common person with little understanding of chemistry outside of my 12th grade chem classes in highschool where anything we did was so simplistic and didnt even touch on any of the techniques that a true chemist knows, and rightfully so..

I can read all the synthesis' in pihkal and tihkal and understand whats going on.. but to properly execute such synthesis? no way, thats way beyond me.

And I mean, any sort of chemistry related board would likely not discuss synthesis' either lol (though I could be wrong..)

There are forums where you can talk synth. Bluelight is a harm reduction forum, and synth talk falls outside of it's mission.

 

[infantannihilator]

yeah thats true. sometimes I forget that bluelight isn't simply just a drug forum

part of the reason I prefer here over others is because you don't have to use that ridiulous swim swiy or other third person bullshit. I honestly don't understand how anyone ever assumed that would save anyones ass.. and why it still exists even though its been proven not to save your ass.. BUT thats neither here nor there lol

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

yeah thats true. sometimes I forget that bluelight isn't simply just a drug forum

part of the reason I prefer here over others is because you don't have to use that ridiulous swim swiy or other third person bullshit. I honestly don't understand how anyone ever assumed that would save anyones ass.. and why it still exists even though its been proven not to save your ass.. BUT thats neither here nor there lol

Wasn't referring to the SWIM forums.

There are other more advanced chemistry forums you can find by googling, and they allow synth talk and no swim BS.

 

[Ismene]

Certain “batches” of LSD did seem to give people common poor experiences, dim visuals headaches, sore muscles, hangovers. Was it all imaginary ?

What kind of reliability can you put on this kind of evidence tho flatline? Who are we talking about? Clueless teenagers who still think if you take too much acid you turn into a glass of orange juice?

If the impurities are overwhelming the LSD then you're talking about a drug that MORE psychoactive than LSD at a SMALLER dose (because the "impurities" will be present at a far smaller dose than the LSD). Don't you think someone would've investigated it by now if it existed?

If the idea of there being different types of LSD crystal of varying levels of quality is just a bullshit urban legend, whoever dreamed it up sure fooled a lot of people, not just a couple kids who happened to score a ten strip....

Urban legends are like that tho blue - they spread like wildfire even if they are bullshit. But one thing you can bet your ass on, there's no different "types" of LSD. That's just people thinking "Coke can be of different quality so LSD must work like that too!".

 

[all0y]

Needlepoint for sure. The amazing tie dye hue on everything you look at ... takes the cake every damn time. Nothing as genuine as a Needlepoint quality dose.

 

[lolwhatzdrugs]

what a fucking ignorant dipshit you are....especially considering you Mod "pillreports"...devoted to discerning quality of pills based on appearances! All ecstasy is the same, right? 38 posts? nice...nobodys actually clicked on that forum since the gulf war, so nicely done!

I would rather kill myself than be a member of the "generation regurgitate and imitate"..."the patriot act generation"...

.

Which generation is that?

 

[Ismene]

Which generation is that?

Generation N - (for needlepoint).

I thought alloy was AGREEING with blue - how come blue went medieval on his ass?