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L-Tryptophan and psychedelics.

A

Achten

Bluelighter
Joined
Jun 19, 2011
Messages
1,067
When I trip I take a magnesium supplement to aid with muscle tension.
Last time I bought magnesium (400mg) + L-Tryptophan 25mg.

I am not scientifically educated but I have the idea that 5HTP is a metabolite of L-Tryptophan ?
My question: Could taking L-tryptophan before, during, or after tripping in any way alter the trip ? Is it bad for the body/mind ?
I doubt there would be a problem with mushrooms or LSD, but what about MDMA, aMT, 5MeO-aMT, and 5MeODiPT or even DOC?

Bonus question: What about taking 5HTP instead of L-tryptophan ?
 
look at this thread on the very same page: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/682818-5-HTP-Pre-Loading-for-Psychedelics

the short answer: taking 5-HTP or l-tryptophan before a trip with a classical psychedelic wont change the experience (but it will also do you no harm).

the situation is very different with entactogens like MDMA or AMT: in this case, pre- and postloading with 5-HTP or l-tryptophan should increase the positve effects and decrease the negative aftereffects.

5-MeO-aMT is a whole different story on its own: there is pretty broad consens that one shouldn't consume it at all.

and to the theory: yes, you are right, l-tryptophan is metabolized in the body to some extend to 5-HTP, and then 5-HTP is the direct precursor for serotonin. taking 5-HTP directly is more efficient than talking l-tryptophan for increasing serotonin levels. moreover, l-tryptophan is part of any diet anyways.
 
Thanks !

About the 5MeO-aMT. Is it a personal opinion or is there scientific reasoning behind that ? I have done it twice now, third time coming soon.
I treat it mostly like MDMA, meaning no redose and not more than 4 times a year.

I take 2mg and really enjoy the confidence and energy boost. I don't feel drained after the experience.
 
Achten said:
About the 5MeO-aMT. Is it a personal opinion or is there scientific reasoning behind that ? I have done it twice now, third time coming soon.
I treat it mostly like MDMA, meaning no redose and not more than 4 times a year.

I take 2mg and really enjoy the confidence and energy boost. I don't feel drained after the experience.
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well, then you are one of the few who get something positive out of this substance (if you read through the big&dandy thread here, almost all people say that the effects consisted mostly of a terrible bodyload ond only minor positive effects). I didn't get initially that you already have positive experiences with this compound, that's why I thought we can easily exclude it. (you are aware that it can be risky in combinations, right?),
 
ungelesene_bettlek said:
well, then you are one of the few who get something positive out of this substance (if you read through the big&dandy thread here, almost all people say that the effects consisted mostly of a terrible bodyload ond only minor positive effects). I didn't get initially that you already have positive experiences with this compound, that's why I thought we can easily exclude it. (you are aware that it can be risky in combinations, right?),
Click to expand...

Yes I am aware of that, hence my question.
I have read a ton about it before trying and decided to keep it low dose. 2mg is really perfect for me, I'm afraid lots of people that had a mainly negative experience took too much.
But thanks for the warning ! I would never mix 5MeOaMT with anything; except mushrooms, after the 5MeO peak has passed.
 
Achten said:
Yes I am aware of that, hence my question.
I have read a ton about it before trying and decided to keep it low dose. 2mg is really perfect for me, I'm afraid lots of people that had a mainly negative experience took too much.
But thanks for the warning ! I would never mix 5MeOaMT with anything; except mushrooms, after the 5MeO peak has passed.
Click to expand...
sounds very reasonable! it seems you take your safer use seriously. ;)

well, to be completely honest, I also wanted to avoid the question wheter pre-/or postloading with 5-HTP with 5-MeO-AMT, because I am really not sure...

well, lets go back to aMT for a moment, because here the sitation is pretty clear: this compound is a bit tricky, because it has several actions at the same time: firstly, it acts as a "classical psychedelics", i.e. as agonist on the 5HT2A receptor; this mechanism it has in common with most other tryptamines, LSD and psychedelic phenethylamines like e.g. DOC (I'm now mentioning this one, because you brought up the example in the first place), but additionally to that, it also acts as stimulant/entactogen/monoamine releaser in a fashion similar to MDMA, and finally it also has MAOI properties, which makes it particularly risky when one wants to combine it with other drugs.

now for 5-MeO-aMT, it is pretty reasonable to assume it is similar to aMT in that respect, but I really don't know for sure, and I am even unsure if this has been researched at all.

does this all make some sense to you, or am I using too much subject vocabulary? I am a bit afraid to confuse you more than to clear things up, so please just say it if I make things more complicated to you.

to make a long story short: from all the substances you mentioned, mushrooms, LSD and DOC are typical examples of what I like to call "classical psychedelics"; 5-HTP won't help you much with them.

MDMA is a typical example of a entactogen/stimulant, i.e. it releases neurotransmitter in your brain that already need to be there and uses them up while doing so; that is why you can increase the wanted action by preloading with 5-HTP, and you can minimize the crash if you continue to take 5-HTP for a few days (that's what I ment with postloading).

aMT belongs to both categories at the same time, and because it shares properties with MDMA, the same things are true for 5HTP supplement also here.

and 5-MeO-aMT is proably similar to aMT, but probably no one can tell for sure; to play safe, you can also use 5HTP here (it won't hurt), but I'm not sure if it will help.

BTW: I already said you that 5-HTP helps, because it is the direct precursor for serotonin in the body; in a similar fashion, you could use also l-tryptophan in the same fashion (if you mean it really serously, that is ;) ), because it plays a similar role as a precursor for dopamine, noradrenaline and adrenaline in the body.
 
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I would do a bit more research before preloading with 5-HTP for AMT or especially MDMA. I've heard people say that it can be dangerous (as in serotonin syndrome level dangerous).
 
relbatnrut said:
I would do a bit more research before preloading with 5-HTP for AMT or especially MDMA. I've heard people say that it can be dangerous (as in serotonin syndrome level dangerous).
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yes, that claim is often heard, but I could never quite belive it. I trust in the body to have enough self control mechanisms to only convert that amound of 5-HTP into serotonin that is actually reasonable. at least I have had only positive experiences when adding 5-HTP and l-tyrosine to my diet around entactogenic or stimulatory experiences, and that is why I think this is a misunderstanding, stemming from the role of l-dopa. as I already mentioned, the biochemical pathways are:

l-tryptophan -> 5-HTP -> serotonin
and
l-tyrosin -> l-dopa -> dopamine -> noradrenaline -> adrenaline

both l-tryptophan and l-tyrosine belong to the 20 "canonical" amino acids that build up all proteins in all known life forms. that is, whenever you eat protein-rich food, you are consuming those amino acids anyways. and there is also food that contains high amounts of 5-HTP (e.g. banana). so if it was true that pre-loading with 5-HTP before an entactogenic experience was dangerous, this would also imply that bananas are dangerous with MDMA . have you ever heard of such claim?

all I can say is that whenever I used 5-HTP and l-tyrosine before an entactogenic experience (and I usually use lots of it in that case), this had only the positive effects I had hoped for (dramatic increase in potency of the entactogen, significant reduction of the aftereffects) without any negative effects.

so now to the big BUT: when you look at the biochemical pathways I outlined above, then it would actually suggest that l-dopa takes the same role for the dopamine househoold as 5-HTP does for serotonin. but here is a big difference: while the body is clever enough to only convert as much 5-HTP to serotonin as is needed, he is unfortunately lacking such self-control mechanisms for the conversion from L-DOPA to dopamine, and this is the reason that using l-DOPA as food supply is actually dangerous, because the body uncontrollably converts it to dopamine, which easily leeds to dopamine excess, which can become very dangerous. this is the reason that L-DOPA is only used under strict medical control for parkinson. and this is the reason that l-tyrosine is to be preferred as food addition if one wants to increase dopamine and noradrenaline levels. as already mentioned, l-tyrosin is one of the 20 "canonical" amino acids that build up all proteins in all live forms, so there is no risk in overdosing (because you ingest a certain amount of l-tyrosine anyways whenever eating protein-containng food).
 
Question: Just because 5-HTP won't affect the mechanism of action of the drug itself doesn't mean that it won't affect the subjective experience of it, right?

I find 5-HTP to a be a powerful anti-depressant. One would draw the conclusion, then, that you could have a more positive trip on some tryptamine with 5-HTP rather than without, even if the 5-HTP isn't directly affecting the drug's action.

Having more serotonin and serotonin precursors available must have *some* impact on a trip, where the 5-HT system is being activated. Perhaps 5-HTP won't increase the intensity of a trip, but rather makes the interpretation of it (and subsequent integration/brain rewiring) more positive.

I just recently started supplementing with 5-HTP again, and will trip soon and report back.
 
I took 2 of these pills today. Before today it has been 6 months since I took them.

Would the St Johns Wort (totalling 20mg "extract", not sure what that means) interfere if I take 5MeoaMT in 8days ?

*sorry, no source links*

Let me rephrase my question: What dose of St Johns Wort is considered an "active dose" ? I read people have to take 300-450mg multiple times daily, which leads to a buildup in plasma levels and that's why it has its effect. I have taken 20mg today (that's what it says on the box, and I believe it is the standardized extract). "People" also say it takes 1-2 weeks for the st johns wort to leave their system. I suppose this is after prolonged ingestion ? I therefore think it should be okay to take aMT or 5MeOaMT even the next day, in my case ?

Any thoughts ?
 
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RhythmSpring said:
Question: Just because 5-HTP won't affect the mechanism of action of the drug itself doesn't mean that it won't affect the subjective experience of it, right?
Click to expand...

That's what my intuition is telling me, but don't act on it. ;)
 
RhythmSpring said:
Question: Just because 5-HTP won't affect the mechanism of action of the drug itself doesn't mean that it won't affect the subjective experience of it, right?

I find 5-HTP to a be a powerful anti-depressant. One would draw the conclusion, then, that you could have a more positive trip on some tryptamine with 5-HTP rather than without, even if the 5-HTP isn't directly affecting the drug's action.

Having more serotonin and serotonin precursors available must have *some* impact on a trip, where the 5-HT system is being activated. Perhaps 5-HTP won't increase the intensity of a trip, but rather makes the interpretation of it (and subsequent integration/brain rewiring) more positive.

I just recently started supplementing with 5-HTP again, and will trip soon and report back.
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sounds very reasonable... as far as I can see, it cannot hurt, so just try it out and report back please. :-)

btw, I envy you that 5-HTP is so effective as AD for you. I read several positive reports about it, but unfortunately for me, it doesn't give any effect I could distiungish from placebo. what worked for me, though, is that preloading with 5-HTP and l-tryptophan seemed to increase the effects of methylone on me; but to be honest, I don't have enough experience to give a useful estimation how strong this effect was.
 
RhythmSpring said:
Question: Just because 5-HTP won't affect the mechanism of action of the drug itself doesn't mean that it won't affect the subjective experience of it, right?

I find 5-HTP to a be a powerful anti-depressant. One would draw the conclusion, then, that you could have a more positive trip on some tryptamine with 5-HTP rather than without, even if the 5-HTP isn't directly affecting the drug's action.

Having more serotonin and serotonin precursors available must have *some* impact on a trip, where the 5-HT system is being activated. Perhaps 5-HTP won't increase the intensity of a trip, but rather makes the interpretation of it (and subsequent integration/brain rewiring) more positive.

I just recently started supplementing with 5-HTP again, and will trip soon and report back.
Click to expand...

EVERYONE MAKE SURE TO CHECK PDs STICKY ON COMBINATIONS BEFORE MIXING 5-HTP WITH A PSYCHEDELIC, LOOK BELOW

This would depend on the pyscadelic ingested. According to the sticky in PD 5-HTP should not be used with the following.
X aMT (alpha-Methyltryptamine)
X 2C-T-7
X Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca
X Other MAOIs (e.g. Phenelzine, Selegiline)
X All SSRIs/SNRIs (e.g. Sertraline, Seroxat)
X MDxx (e.g. MDMA, MDA, MDEA)
X Other serotonin releasers (e.g. 6-APB, 5-APB, 5-API, 5-IAI, MDAI)

For this reason I choose not to use it with any psychedelic for safety reasons. Honestly I never need it anyways until after a trip or MDMA session, I have been taking this for about 4 months with GABA and L-Theanine and also would say this is a great anti-depressent, I believe a consistent regiment of 5-HTP is much more effective than an SSRI. I love how billions are spent on prosac and related drugs, when you have 5-HTP and GABA at every pharmacy and grocery store in the world...

I also believe it is more effective then Lamotrigine for bi-polar disorder, Seroquel is a different story IMO.
 
I read those, thanks.
My question pertains more to halflife or active dose in vivo. I took 2 pills (check a few posts above to see which ones) on sunday. I will be taking 5mg of aMT tomorrow for a visit to the zoo.
 
EarthBounded said:
EVERYONE MAKE SURE TO CHECK PDs STICKY ON COMBINATIONS BEFORE MIXING 5-HTP WITH A PSYCHEDELIC, LOOK BELOW

This would depend on the pyscadelic ingested. According to the sticky in PD 5-HTP should not be used with the following.
X aMT (alpha-Methyltryptamine)
X 2C-T-7
X Ayahuasca/Pharmahuasca
X Other MAOIs (e.g. Phenelzine, Selegiline)
X All SSRIs/SNRIs (e.g. Sertraline, Seroxat)
X MDxx (e.g. MDMA, MDA, MDEA)
X Other serotonin releasers (e.g. 6-APB, 5-APB, 5-API, 5-IAI, MDAI)

For this reason I choose not to use it with any psychedelic for safety reasons. Honestly I never need it anyways until after a trip or MDMA session, I have been taking this for about 4 months with GABA and L-Theanine and also would say this is a great anti-depressent, I believe a consistent regiment of 5-HTP is much more effective than an SSRI. I love how billions are spent on prosac and related drugs, when you have 5-HTP and GABA at every pharmacy and grocery store in the world...
Click to expand...
I can see that there could be probably a small but real risk when combining 5-HTP with a MAOI, but I simply refuse to listen to the warnings of using 5-HTP together with SRIs/SRAs, because even though they are often heard, they sound so illogical, constructed and over-cautious to me. moreover, my experience tells me that preloading with 5-HTP just increases the wanted effects of entactogens without any alarming side-effects of any kind. this is also supported buy reading the successfull reports of others doing so, never causing any problems. indeed, I have looked around quite some while, but could not find a single case report where such "combinations" was the source of any adverse effects; and I write "combinations" under emphasis with a reason, because 5-HTP is part of a normal diet and can therefore hardly considered a drug; and indeed, have you ever seen an antidepressant coming with a warning about eating bananas?

about the wonder stories about 5-HTP as an antidepressant: I have heard lots of them, but unfortunately, I could never observe any noticeable effect besides increasing the effect of entactogens (and I am honestly not even sure about that, because I have not enough data yet). also regular prescribed ADs don't do much for me, and also the combination of 5-HTP and a prescribed AD is not different to me; but at least I can say without any doubts that I never experienced any ill effects, even with high doses of 5-HTP spread over a day while on taking 300 mg venlafaxine regularly (i.e. as the doctor prescribed).

to make a long story short: as soon as I hear of a single case where using 5-HTP (and also l-tyrosine) as a preload to an entactogen caused only the slightes problems, I will of course admit my mistake and warn others of doing so. but until there is not the slightest evidence of this practice being dangerous in any way, I don't see a reason to doubt about the reasonability of such a practice, which is allso in accordance with the best of my knowledge.
 
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