Heavy psychedelic abuse.. how do you handle it?

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

Or I could offer a debate against it - and win

Maybe it seems obvious to you, being clearly bias, but some people put a lot of time and energy into their opinions.

 

[forgoodnesssakes]

Might want to check out (or not) my old thread that I recently updated b/c of this thread to your question, found here, or just google teenage psychedelic abuse, it is the first result; http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/536644-Mushrooms-P-Cubensis-Deliquent-teenage-psychedelic-abuse

 

[forgoodnesssakes]

Well, such a bold statement but obviously the nature of such a debate topic has only one logical winner. And let's just say it is definitely you sir. Touché, my good chap.

Or I could offer a debate against it - and win

Maybe it seems obvious to you, being clearly bias, but some people put a lot of time and energy into their opinions.

 

[forgoodnesssakes]

This all depends on what kind of psychedelics, we must take into account unknown neurtoxicicity levels of many of the RC Tryptamine's which are more likely going to lead to health problems when users consume larger amounts, if we are talking LSD and psilocybin mushrooms the only real risks being ran are psychosis and delusion in a trip where the user can kill or injure himself.

Very good and important point made about the unknown (for me it is very well known and highly present) neurotoxicity of the RC Tryp's, I myself have witnessed it firsthand...what do I mean? Well surely it is purely a theory but...

I have experienced neurotoxic symptoms several times on chemicals such as MDAI, MDMA, MDA, 4-MEC, the NBOME's-(was making the possibly fatal mistake of taking an maoi while dosing these twice, don't ask why or how lol.) and lastly the same neurotoxic symptoms of 4-ho-mipt which were 1) displeasurable and did 'not feel right' and 2) mimicked the same exact unique negative symptoms as the rest of said chemicals which were indeed verified as unique symptoms to neurotoxicity, namely a swollen vein in the middle of the forehead and singular pupil dilation, which is the TELLTALE sign of common neurotoxicity.

 

[forgoodnesssakes]

Personally I've been taking 4-8 grams of dry P.cubensis almost every weekend for the past few months, and I don't feel as though these frequent trips are having any effect on my psyche or cognitive abilities. I don't think mushrooms are really something that's able to be abused very easily...I mean, sure you can take them frequently but it's hard to achieve a relative dose when compared to what some "abusers" of LSD take.

Lol, this post made me giggle. I went to high school with a guy, who a few years after in his mid-to-late 20's was sentenced to prison for growing P.cubensis, he is still is prison now, it's been 3 years already. The fed's busted down his apartment door and found pounds of fungus, along with mycelium spores and fungus growing all over his bedroom, I shit you not.

Not only was he a fan of growing mass amounts of fungus and selling it indiscriminately to simply too many people who knew that he sold it, but he was an avid daily consumer of it.

Any drug has the potential to be abused. Is it common? Hell no, in fact mushrooms are probably one of the least common drugs to be abused. But let's not pretend there are not people out there who do it way too much for their own benefit, who actually become habituated and addicted (in love if you will) with psy's such as psilocybin.

 

[bloodshed344]

I really don't think most tryptamines have any appreciable ability to cause brain damage. I definitely don't think 4-HO-MiPT can. Can anyone think of ANYTHING relating to this that may shed some light?

 

[forgoodnesssakes]

Let me elaborate...

I really don't think most tryptamines have any appreciable ability to cause brain damage. I definitely don't think 4-HO-MiPT can. Can anyone think of ANYTHING relating to this that may shed some light?

I was taking the mao-b inhibitor fo-ti as well as schizandra daily for months and even on the same day as 4-ho-mipt, 2 days in a row of multiple dosings nonetheless for goodness sakes oh me oh my pie in the sky, (just figured out this may exhibit effects on both types of mao's, the story gets deeper with each post...too much synchronicity, visit my thread in the psychedelic forum called "Shed a layer of skin..." to follow me...anyways back to my point mao-a is supposedly the mao you need to exercise extreme caution with on tryptamines, and with substituted tryptamines it is a BIG HELL NO DON'T DO IT, which my obvious ignorance of the herbs' dual maoi effects and the deathlike trips testify to.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of reports of very high miprocin dosing with no ill effects other than reality shattering power trips, however many people complain of back aches and such at higher doses, desire to lay still in bed and such...and leave a note for the coroner and take 1/3 of the dose if you insist on taking any synthetic research phen. or tryp. with any maoi, who really knows the dangers yet; (for goodness sakes, so very sorry for the pun i simply could not resist, and to think I created this username to post about a 4-ho-mipt trip, TOO FAR OUT i really need to chill out and bring it back in right now, goodnight all, sleep tight, don't let the RC's bite...)

 

[TangerinO]

For me, when I was, what I would call, abusing LSD by taking it weekly for months on end at 150ug+ dosages, the biggest cure was a complete shattering funnily enough.

One day I went too far with some DMT, and I could no longer avoid the fact that I needed a break, time to think, and had other things to address.

So I guess for me it was about taking my abuse to a point where I really knew I was at the tipping point. Pull back, or be forever unhealthily obsessed.

 

[F1n1shed]

I have hppd from excessive psychedelic usage. I tripped twice a week for a few months, then did 4 trips a week for a couple months with heavy usage of mdma, cannabis, and stimulants (Meth+psychedelics is a horrible combo).

This..
Psychedelics are for the most part pretty safe. As long as you don't do them often, best to space them out as much as possible. There can always be that one heavy trip that leaves you with lasting HPPD, which is NOT fun. That is the real danger with psych's, also heavy users seem to think they have the world figured out. But in reality they are so detached from reality they don't even notice it.

I'd say the research chemicals / stimulating psych's are the most damaging of all but all of them have the potential of causing HPPD.

 

[Rabbit]

This..
Psychedelics are for the most part pretty safe. As long as you don't do them often, best to space them out as much as possible. There can always be that one heavy trip that leaves you with lasting HPPD, which is NOT fun. That is the real danger with psych's, also heavy users seem to think they have the world figured out. But in reality they are so detached from reality they don't even notice it.

I'd say the research chemicals / stimulating psych's are the most damaging of all but all of them have the potential of causing HPPD.

Well said,

I just wanted to add that the problem I've found with the research chemicals (and this holds true for the "classics as well") is the fact that you can never really be sure if the synth was done correctly by whatever lab your source uses. I've found batches of things like MXE vary wildly and even with a test kit I couldn't tell you how pure each batch is or what else might be in it. Even when so-called proof of purity is provided I can never be sure if it is the same thing I have in my hand.

I identify with the part of your posts where you described "having the world figured out". This has occurred to me on almost every psychedelic I've used and when I use heavily for a period of time I find it takes several days until I'm back to my normal thinking patterns. I've had a touch of HPPD and manic symptoms from one time use and use over the course of several days so you're right you must consider that even when dosing once/twice a year because it can prevent you from going about your life normally (if only for a little while).

If I may I'd like to add that I've abused other classes of drugs and I feel the psychedelics do not lend themselves to abuse like benzos/opiates/amps do. Even the "addicting" psychedelics like MXE and K can scare you away from them if you use them too often. Obviously that doesn't hold true for all users but I think it does for most. Of course its all about what you seek from the experience. I used psychedelics to break away from other addictions to great success but I don't feel that I'm the right type of person to desire using them everyday (like I did with opiates). Some people are just inclined to want to use them often, if you are one of those people I would advise you to be careful like I would advise an opiate addict to ease off if possible.

One last thing: Does anyone else go through cycles with psychedelics? What I mean is I find myself having bouts of moderate-heavy user say once every three months then I will abstain for long periods of time. Once I'm "awe struck" I don't have a desire to go back for awhile, sometimes this will happen on my first trip but as I dose low on initial trips when I do use I usually build up to such an experience over the course of 3-5 sessions then I will abstain for months (sometimes years) before visiting that head space again.

I hope this post was helpful.

 

[bloodshed344]

Well said,

I just wanted to add that the problem I've found with the research chemicals (and this holds true for the "classics as well") is the fact that you can never really be sure if the synth was done correctly by whatever lab your source uses. I've found batches of things like MXE vary wildly and even with a test kit I couldn't tell you how pure each batch is or what else might be in it. Even when so-called proof of purity is provided I can never be sure if it is the same thing I have in my hand.

I identify with the part of your posts where you described "having the world figured out". This has occurred to me on almost every psychedelic I've used and when I use heavily for a period of time I find it takes several days until I'm back to my normal thinking patterns. I've had a touch of HPPD and manic symptoms from one time use and use over the course of several days so you're right you must consider that even when dosing once/twice a year because it can prevent you from going about your life normally (if only for a little while).

If I may I'd like to add that I've abused other classes of drugs and I feel the psychedelics do not lend themselves to abuse like benzos/opiates/amps do. Even the "addicting" psychedelics like MXE and K can scare you away from them if you use them too often. Obviously that doesn't hold true for all users but I think it does for most. Of course its all about what you seek from the experience. I used psychedelics to break away from other addictions to great success but I don't feel that I'm the right type of person to desire using them everyday (like I did with opiates). Some people are just inclined to want to use them often, if you are one of those people I would advise you to be careful like I would advise an opiate addict to ease off if possible.

One last thing: Does anyone else go through cycles with psychedelics? What I mean is I find myself having bouts of moderate-heavy user say once every three months then I will abstain for long periods of time. Once I'm "awe struck" I don't have a desire to go back for awhile, sometimes this will happen on my first trip but as I dose low on initial trips when I do use I usually build up to such an experience over the course of 3-5 sessions then I will abstain for months (sometimes years) before visiting that head space again.

I hope this post was helpful.

To the bold, I've never gotten this from psychedelics at all. I would be interested in a poll that asked how many people have ever gotten this effect.

EDIT: To clarify I have had visual HPPD disturbances (quite severe I think) but I don't think I have true HPPD at all.

 

[sean107]

I get the same effect of thinking I've got it all figured out when I'm tripping and a lot of it never went away. Kind of get stuck on believing in conspiracy theories that probably, hopefully aren't true.

 

[Pagey]

Erm...I hope this is the place to ask this?

I've been having a problem with abusing aMT lately...about two months ago I was using ~50mg 2 or 3 times a week, these days it's once a week around 100mg, sometimes twice. I really do want to stop but well, can't seem able to...and I think it's seriously starting to damage both my mental and physical health. It has certainly improved my life a lot - helped me get clean off heroin, among other things - in many respects, but I feel like I'm really starting to lose my grip on reality, even while sober. I have random sober hallucinations (usually seeing colours/hearing voices) and I just get a constant 'tunnel effect' where everything just feels completely disconnected and unreal. I also feel rather disconnected from myself, as if I were walking in a stranger's body. In fact these days I only really feel like myself when I trip.

Also my body is shutting down a bit (I'm guessing because of how physically intense aMT is), haven't really been sleeping/eating/drinking and my heart is being weird...etc etc. Anyway, I'm really making efforts on reducing my use and I've been doing pretty well so far but if anyone has any tips on how I can recover from way too much intense tripping that really would be great. I'm trying to get my body back in shape as a start but it's also put a ton of strain on my mind (also had a psychotic break a few weeks back while on aMT) and I'm not so sure how to deal with that. Ofc I'm going to stop tripping but if there's anything to speed up the process... thanks.

 

[herbavore]

Pagey, I read your post twice and these are the things that stand out to me that you could perhaps think about:

I have been having a problem abusing amt...

Abuse means overuse or out of control use. When you are abusing a drug--whether it is heroin or AMT, there is a deep need that is screaming to be addressed. What is the source of the pain you are feeling? Where is the need coming from and why is it not being met? What does the idea of the particular drug offer that leads you to it, even when the need remains?

I really do want to stop...

Trying to honestly sort out the above questions will lead you away from the compulsive aspect of what you are doing to a place of inquiry and exploration.

"I think it is damaging me"..."It has improved my life"

Since your experience contains both of these, it is worth separating them in your mind and addressing each of them. How are they separate but where do they intersect? How has it improved your life? Were you able to get off heroin because of some knowledge you gained or simply because you have replaced that habit with this one?

I'm losing my grip on reality, even while sober...
everything feels disconnected and unreal..I feel disconnected from myself, as if I were in a stranger's body"

I don't think there is only one reality. Maybe you are experiencing a reality that is trying to teach you something that you need to learn? Perhaps it is that you are in fact disconnected from your true and essential self. Perhaps the feeling that you are in a stranger's body is how you actually are living your life. This is important stuff to consider. It does not have to be a negative if you can see what it is shining a spotlight on. The layers of self that we come to depend on as who we are, are often false layers created by what others think, what society has taught us to accept or reject, layers of ego-constrained perceptions that cloud our view of what and who we really are. Maybe the feeling of disconnection is the portal to connection.

...how to recover from...intense tripping...or how to speed up the process

I think if you stop using everything for a while while you concentrate on integrating what this experience has to offer would be the most beneficial for you. The question always has to be, "What is there to be learned in this experience?" Then, rather than trying to grab more and more experiences of leaving your body and your perceived sense of reality, you can stop and explore what it is that you so desperately need to break out of, examine how you have been attempting that (what has worked and what hasn't?) and you can begin to see how you can create the reality that you want.

 

[Pagey]

herby that was an absolute brilliant post and some of the questions you raised I think will really help me. As always, thank you

Abuse means overuse or out of control use. When you are abusing a drug--whether it is heroin or AMT, there is a deep need that is screaming to be addressed. What is the source of the pain you are feeling? Where is the need coming from and why is it not being met? What does the idea of the particular drug offer that leads you to it, even when the need remains?

I feel pretty dumb now but I've never actually considered that question beyond 'because I'm unhappy with my life'...which really isn't a very satisfying or useful answer.

Since your experience contains both of these, it is worth separating them in your mind and addressing each of them. How are they separate but where do they intersect? How has it improved your life? Were you able to get off heroin because of some knowledge you gained or simply because you have replaced that habit with this one?

I think I was definitely able to get off heroin because of the knowledge I gained. aMT enabled me to see what heroin was doing to me/what I was doing to myself and helped me realise that isn't what I wanted...but obviously my addictive issues seem to extend far beyond just heroin, and ofc having another drug around at the time of quitting didn't really help. Honestly I think aMT in itself has done nothing but improve my life, it's more that it's taking too much of a toll on me physically - including leaving me completely depressed when I'm not on it...and to be fair it has also brought out a LOT, and much more than I can deal with at once. I guess I could have kept it 100% beneficial if I hadn't been so greedy about tripping all the time really

I don't think there is only one reality. Maybe you are experiencing a reality that is trying to teach you something that you need to learn? Perhaps it is that you are in fact disconnected from your true and essential self. Perhaps the feeling that you are in a stranger's body is how you actually are living your life. This is important stuff to consider. It does not have to be a negative if you can see what it is shining a spotlight on. The layers of self that we come to depend on as who we are, are often false layers created by what others think, what society has taught us to accept or reject, layers of ego-constrained perceptions that cloud our view of what and who we really are. Maybe the feeling of disconnection is the portal to connection.

That's a fantastic point that I don't really have a quick answer to, but that I'm definitely going to be thinking about a lot.
Had never even crossed my mind but it makes so much sense now you mention it...

I think if you stop using everything for a while while you concentrate on integrating what this experience has to offer would be the most beneficial for you. The question always has to be, "What is there to be learned in this experience?" Then, rather than trying to grab more and more experiences of leaving your body and your perceived sense of reality, you can stop and explore what it is that you so desperately need to break out of, examine how you have been attempting that (what has worked and what hasn't?) and you can begin to see how you can create the reality that you want.

Yup you're right. I've definitely been doing what I can to itnegrate the experience but I suppose adding more experiences on top of that every few days isn't exactly the best way to do so. Anyway, thanks again, it's very reassuring to know this might not actually be me going vaguely insane...haha.

 

[RecoveringPothead]

As shitty as the newer "atypical anti-psychotics" for daily medication they can be a lifesaver to help one come down from a bad trip.

I used to do psychedelics and it was those leftover anti-psychotics that I had to stop taking but never threw away that pulled me out of it.

Go to a doctor and they will give you these so easily. Always have some on hand if your going to keep experimenting with psychedelics.

 

[Pagey]

^Not sure if you're answering me - but if you are that's not really the issue. I don't want anti-psychotics at all, I really prefer to deal with my trip experiences on my own (ie. without drugs) as I do think they're all extremely important and should all be remembered as such. Thank you though

 

[B9]

Hypocritic oath or oaf ?

Overuse can result in the users reality & "everyone else s" reality becoming estranged. The longer the user spends doing drugs which give effects that everyone else doesn't appreciate can lead to a sense of isolation which can lead to greater use of psychedelics which reinforces the gulf between the two realities.
Psychedelics can be brilliant but brilliance fades if it becomes commonplace - a users emotional reaction may change from "wow" to "how can I regain that brilliance"?
Well a user could take really really high doses of psychedelics or simply stop using them for a while - probably wise to avoid using any other drug instead of psychedelics - if the user has run into problems with them.
To recover a user may wish to do something else, meet different people, get an exercise regime, a job, paint the wall, garden & so forth - all the usual things which bring rewards to run of the mill folk.
When the user has " stabilised" the lifestyle they're leading then maybe an adventure now & then with psychedelics will call to them - which is great - just don't make a cv read " I ate like shitloads of acid for years & wrote haiku's & metaphors ( a harmless pursuit that can get you a bad rep apparently) for the angels brother.
Hope this helps - tho it's just a regurgitation of what many people have said many times.

 

[BK Bonkey Kong]

As B9 said, I think the thing to remember is that the more time you spend in an alternate, drug-induced reality, the further removed you become from "common" reality. This applies to all drugs and the more this balance becomes disturbed, the more difficult it becomes to sort out. With psychedelics, there are definite insights to be gained from their use, but once one begins trying to regularly induce those insightful experiences, the experiences become not spiritual and ceremonial, but simply drug-induced escapes.

 

[RecoveringPothead]

No it was just general advice for anyone based off my own experience. Not intended for anybody in particular.

My point to everyone here is simply that I have experienced first hand a bad trip that was impacting my work the next day. I went home "sick" popped a risperidone (sp? atypical antipsychotic) and felt myself slowly come back into everyday reality to the point that I was able to go back to work that day.

I understand first hand, the learning experience of a bad trip but when it starts to impact your everyday life or if your just stupid like Imwas and trip before you have to work the next day anti psychotics can be a miracle.

I went on fine after a single dose and then my next trip was a very positive one with a very good friend of mine