methadone, buprenorphine and other opioid pharmacotherapies

[Nozphexezora]

What I mean is why can we not be given our DOC in a steady controlled amount until the person decides (some can use forever) to come off ourselves?(yes we will pay for it ourselves also) So many people just go about their daily lives dependent on a substance like it doesn't exist yet it becomes a major problem when one is forced to stop what they are dependent on because some d!ck who's never taken drugs in the first place says so? You can tell I'm angry because I fall into this category. I want to live my life how I see fit, I'm happy to be dependent on a substance and go about my business. I don't drive or work in a safety conscience area, my family supports me no matter what, no one has ever been hurt by my use and never will be except maybe my own mental welfare because I don't view it as fair and it really upsets me and makes me wonder what the hell is the point if some random can decide what I do with my body/mind?

The drug laws are BS! The way media portrays drugs and drug users is BS!

I've heard it all before.

What's the deal with people just following the contrary? Soon the popular opinion is going to meet the unpopular opinion in popularity and everybody will become indifferent. The government isn't the big NWO reptilian conspiracy freaks you think them to be. This suboxone treatment has already helped me a lot and it's only been a week.

 

[JeanJM]

It's good its working for you but its not for someone like me and shouldn't be forced upon people either. And yes I think governments are corrupted, greedy, conspiracy freaks who want a NWO of some sort. Just look at America and its government I mean come on!

 

[Nozphexezora]

It's good its working for you but its not for someone like me and shouldn't be forced upon people either. And yes I think governments are corrupted, greedy, conspiracy freaks who want a NWO of some sort. Just look at America and its government I mean come on!

If you don't want to get off opiates then don't use the maintenance program; otherwise you're ruining it for other people who genuinely want to quit by exploiting the complimentary system. Why did you get on the maintenance program if you didn't want to get better? Because you wanted to get high. And nobody is forcing the shit on you; what - do you just meet a doctor and they strap you down and inject drugs into you?

The reason why codeine and morphine and all your favourite drugs aren't on the programs are because of the fact that people like you would just go onto the program to get a cheap high at the cost of government expenditures. I'm finding it hard to accept your story of your totalitarian doctor who wants you to burn in a life of addiction as punishment, because it seems you're just angry at your doctor for cutting/reducing the supply of cheap codeine no thanks to your misuse.

Maybe you just haven't experienced how depressing it is to spend your entire time and money on drugs, regardless of whether you have a job or University etc.

As for Government, you're just mistaking typical Machiavellian tactics used by Politicians as a means to dominate the world in some hilariously repulsive attempt to satisfy their fetish. This is Democracy; you think a Politician isn't going to cash in if it's unrecorded? Do you think a politician isn't going to give a majority opinion for votes? Let's be honest, here, if you were a Politician it wouldn't take much intuition to realise that giving out over the counter and taking cash under the counter is the most ideal option when it comes to maintaining your political career. My point is, it's not the Politicians who are the problem - it's Democracy. Even so, it's a small price to pay for an ideally balanced system. If you have a way to get around it, then feel free to tell me, but if you don't reply then I'll just assume you got kidnapped by a Reptilian George Bush because "you know too much".

 

[JeanJM]

I'm not on a maintenance programme...I'm tapering myself remember because I don't want to be on Suboxone. I think you missed my sarcasm about the government.

You know people wouldn't be depressed having to spending their time/money on drugs if they were made available

 

[tentram]

lol @ reptilian george.

everbody get out the traps n bug spray.
its happening now.

 

[JeanJM]

I was thinking more about some secret society that has been plotting NWO for at least 60 years now. I'm sure it's happening in some form, hopefully the sheeple will wake up...

 

[Nozphexezora]

I'm not on a maintenance programme...I'm tapering myself remember because I don't want to be on Suboxone. I think you missed my sarcasm about the government.

You know people wouldn't be depressed having to spending their time/money on drugs if they were made available

But why were you going to those programs anyway? You said your Doctor was giving you codeine for maintenance, didn't you?

Everybody knows that the reptilian NWO is just a cover-up for wolves with sheep-skin who built the pyramids.

 

[JeanJM]

Hes part of the place that runs those programs and he is the one who wants to put me on Suboxone maintenance but I wanted to try and taper off the Codeine first as I don't believe Suboxone is the way forward for someone like me. I'm down to 60mg now and getting angrier by the day O.O

 

[Nozphexezora]

Hes part of the place that runs those programs and he is the one who wants to put me on Suboxone maintenance but I wanted to try and taper off the Codeine first as I don't believe Suboxone is the way forward for someone like me. I'm down to 60mg now and getting angrier by the day O.O

But why do you want to quit if you feel that people are forcing you to do so and that there's apparently no negative impact on your use?

Regardless, 60mg is pretty good. That's just a high analgesic dose now.

 

[JeanJM]

I have no choice in the matter. I can't keep going around to pharmacies to get what I need and the Doctor won't keep me on Codeine Maintenance any more because of reasons I explained in my thread.

 

[Nozphexezora]

I have no choice in the matter. I can't keep going around to pharmacies to get what I need and the Doctor won't keep me on Codeine Maintenance any more because of reasons I explained in my thread.

Yeah, pharmacy shopping is depressing. Especially when the pharmacist screws their head up at your records even though you rarely go to the pharmacy.

 

[footscrazy]

What I mean is why can we not be given our DOC in a steady controlled amount until the person decides (some can use forever) to come off ourselves?

I'm with you.

Why did you get on the maintenance program if you didn't want to get better? Because you wanted to get high.

I think this criticism and the rest directed at Jean is pretty assumptive and unfounded. From my understanding of Jean's story, her doc was trying to push her onto suboxone maintenance for a very low codeine habit, and refused to consider any other options. It's easy to say that if the program didn't suit her, she should just continue as she was, but I think that's missing the point. Doctors often don't seem to see or appreciate the nuances of individual cases, and instead throw suboxone prescriptions at every opioid addict that comes in for advice. In many cases, this can increase harm. It would be great to get to a place where realistic and beneficial help could be provided to all addicts, rather than only the ones who respond to the handful of 'acceptable' treatments.

Just remember that professionals have decided that this drug in particular works remarkably better than other agonist opiates like morphine or heroin.

Could you please elaborate on this - in what situations, and how do you define working 'better'? Which 'professionals' have decided this, and do they perhaps have vested interests? I have certainly seen studies that suggest the opposite - that there is no real medical reason that suboxone is preferable to supplying addicts with heroin.

There are reasons why suboxone is suitable for maintenance of opioid addiction, but I also don't think its development and its use as one of the few options for opioid addicts is an act of pure benevolence on the part of doctors and chemists. There is still a widely held tendency to judge people who want to get high as having some sort of moral failing, being 'weak', and deserving to be punished. It seems to me that much of the opposition towards prescribing opioids such as heroin to an addict is borne of this kind of attitude - that doing so would be 'rewarding' deviant and sinful behaviour. It's as if the 'risk' of someone perhaps getting a side effect of euphoria from their maintenance is unacceptable, and if there is a risk or suspicion of this, some doctors immediately want to rectify that by putting you on sub and ensuring you don't feel any pleasure, because that would be 'bad'.

I don't think suboxone is all bad - in fact, I'm incredibly grateful I live somewhere where this option is available to me. But I also don't think methadone and buprenorphine are 'one size fits all' solutions that will be beneficial for every person.

 

[Dr Phibes]

Apart from a few occasions taking a couple of fortes with a couple of Valium, which was great then, my first real experience with opiates, and needles, was iv'ing a 10mg physeptone tab. Decades ago but remember that like yesterday. Had a constant supply at the time but once I realised I had a habit there was no possible way I could have gotten off that until I replaced it with H. After that CT off H was a walk in the park in comparison.

Always seemed backward to treat heroin addicts by getting them addicted to something far more addictive.

 

[JeanJM]

Apparently sustained release oral morphine is also a good maintenance option but they don't off that here in New Zealand.
The 'deviant behavior' from some only comes because they cannot have a steady clean sustained supply of their DOC. If that was no longer an issue, addicts would go about their daily business like nothing is wrong. Yes some would abuse it and keep having more and more but that is their choice. There are others like me who sit on the same dose for years to come but you can't punish all for the short comings of a few.

Also the idea that I cannot grow natural plants to use as I see fit also pisses me off. All to protect greedy company profits.

 

[JeanJM]

Also why is it wrong to get 'high' I get 1 life on this planet and I want to experience everything nature has to offer. I was very anti drugs growing up because of all the lies I was told as a child but once I tried just about all of them my mind opened up and I could see the world for what it really is. This is why I think drugs are illegal, they don't want open minded people, they want sheeple to control.

 

[footscrazy]

Also why is it wrong to get 'high'

I think the idea that getting high is 'bad' is so ingrained culturally that many people find it hard to see just how odd this idea actually is. I think there are many reasons that the 'drug war' continues to be perpetuated, but I do think, as you said, there is an incentive to perpetuate the stigma against drug addicts, to keep them subjugated and apart from the 'rest' of society. The hysteria you often see from society when it comes to drug addicts seems so out of proportion - the contempt and personal offense that many people tend to express regarding drug addicts seems strange. I think the contempt hides fear, of behaviours that people fear upset the balance and security of society. It seems similar to me to the ongoing demonisation of sex - especially female sexuality - which has been subjected to the same agenda of shame and subjugation - similarly, I think, to maintain a level of control, and to maintain the status quo.

It's still crazy to me that as a society violence is so accepted as entertainment - through video games, movies or what have you, but drug taking is viewed with such contempt. Culturally, we have a difficult relationship with pleasure which does seem to have undertones of morality and sin. I think in years to come people will look back and wonder how this discriminatory treatment of drug use and users was accepted for so long. I hope so, anyway.

 

[JeanJM]

I never get why violence is so accepted but show a breast its suddenly so oh offensive and shocking.

 

[Nozphexezora]

I never said drug use is bad, but I'm wondering how you got put on codeine without lying to your Doctor. Do they have some codeine maintenance program in NZ or something?

I have certainly seen studies that suggest the opposite

I suppose. I myself have seen latest studies showing that if you tie enough balloons to rats they will fly away, and that I am indefinitely wrong. In fact, my latest study shows that my latest study is non-existent, and that all drug users are the embodiment on Christ. An older study presented after WWII was daring enough to conclude that lack of exposure to drugs makes people Nazi zombies hell-bent on murder.

I never get why violence is so accepted but show a breast its suddenly so oh offensive and shocking.

The only place where violence is so suitable is around a bunch of frat-boy apes, and in that environment so are side-boobs.

I get 1 life on this planet

heheh

I want to experience everything nature has to offer.

I have my own cosmological philosophy and I want to experience everything reality has to offer. But just because it's natural doesn't mean it's any less harmful or beneficial in any way.

 

[JeanJM]

I've been using for 7 years until I decided to seek 'help' because I knew I would not be able to keep going around pharmacies forever, some pharmacist would eventually snap me out. So I went to CADS and I tried C/T but was hospitalized twice and horrible things happened to me and was put back on it at 150mg. The CADS doctor let me stay on that dose until I was ready to come off BUT unfortunately for me in 1 meeting I was acting 'too happy' so the doctor said "I must of been really high" and took it away from me and started pushing Methadone/Suboxone. The only reason I was happy was because I got a new job? but he didn't want to hear it.

This is where I am now but tapering off slowly myself so I've had to find some pharmacies I've never been to out in the who knows where land lol.

 

[Nozphexezora]

That's odd that they prescribe codeine there for maintenance. Anyway, you can still manage to get codeine frequently if you're near a lot of shops. I used to be near a lot and you just have to organise a plan in which you cycle through nearby pharmacies.