• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

methadone, buprenorphine and other opioid pharmacotherapies

Is there NOBODY around at 1 a.m. Monday morning? Damn! I just took more loperamide (uhh, 16 mg now I think, 8 tabs) & a whole bottle of cheap, nasty chardonnay called "Lizard Tail" I got at Diamond Shamrock, SORRY, Valero, before they cut off the alcohol-selling at midnight here in the great state of Texas! Blech!
 
Loperenide is useless mate it dosnt cross the BBB so you will get no effect at all.ur better off gettin codeine or poppy seeds to see u through to ur next dose....that suuucks dude I've done that with smack before blew half of my last line off the table :,(
 
You are in the Australian forum, and it's Monday afternoon here. It usually seems to get more active around here in the evenings.

I've had a look around regarding lope and precipitated withdrawals, but I haven't found anything 100% definitive. It appears that precipitated withdrawals are unlikely because lope doesn't cross the blood brain barrier. Most of the threads I've found have been regarding suboxone and lope though. I didn't think precipitated withdrawals were an issue with methadone anyway. I've heard of people taking a lot of lope, 150mg or more, but it seems safer to try a lower dose first. The 12mg you've taken sounds reasonable, and you can keep building up tab by tab until you get the relief you want.

Here's some threads that may be useful:

Using Loperamide to combat methadone withdrawal?


would using imodium cause precipitated withdrawal when changing from habit to subs?

Precipitated Withdrawal from Loperamide and/or Tramadol?
^ Although these last two concern subs, they contain some interesting posts on lope and its potential to cause precipitated wd.

junkie skumbag said:
Loperenide is useless mate it dosnt cross the BBB so you will get no effect at all.ur better off gettin codeine or poppy seeds to see u through to ur next dose....that suuucks dude I've done that with smack before blew half of my last line off the table :,(

Not true. Many people find relief by using lope, although it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier, it's effective on opioid receptors elsewhere in the body. As such, it can provide effective relief for the physical symptoms of withdrawal, although it won't get you high (unless you use potentiators to help it cross the BB barrier).
 
^yep, it varies from person to person, but for some people (myself included) loperamide has a very noticeable effect.

I'm not talking about catching a buzz or whatever, I'm saying that for me it keeps WDs at bay quite effectively. It takes away a lot of the physical discomfort, nausea, RLS, and general restlessness associated with withdrawals.
 
Totally hear you, but I'm not looking for any effect if you're talking about a buzz. I truly just do methadone & usually by the book.
What I've read in many places recently is that high doses of lope can have a profound effect on easing withdrawals.
I have heard some like you who disagree having tried it. I think it's probably just unique to each person, some it works, others it doesn't.

My dose of 16mg was not substantial, though, compared to some doses I've heard of people doing while in W/D. I'm gonna learn a bit today about the side effects, risks & dangers of high-dose loperamide & perhaps next time I'll take a lot more if I ever use it again. It didn't seem to effect my withdrawals much, but I'm a big chicken with drugs & usually do much homework before trying something & definately before deciding on high doses of anything.

What I want to know now is how long & how bad is the cork I put inside of me & should I possibly counter-effect it? I mean, even at 50mg/day methadone I have poop like bricks & lope surely must make it worse.

Speaking of blowing lines, when I was a teen & doing coke with all my friends during our cocaine stage, I never once blew my lines, BUT I did once blow someone else's large line off the table. I'll never forget the foolishness & fear I felt at that moment! I immediately offered to pay for it but he wouldn't allow me even though I didn't know the guy too well. Whew!
 
Last edited:
Hey, thanks a bunch & I'm doing some homework in those threads. I should've looked at old threads first, but was a bit worried last night.

Is it uncool to post in the Aussie forum being American?
 
Last edited:
^ Nah it's all good, no probs with that at all. With something like suboxone or methadone, they're the same drugs here and in the US, so we're all talking about the same thing. Other threads, for instance the smack thread, are more regionally specific and probably of less use to someone from overseas, though anyone is still absolutely welcome to post there.

How'd you go anyway, got your methadone and feeling better? As for the constipation, I'd prob just see how you go first before taking laxatives. Eating plenty of fibre through vegies and whole grains is always a good idea, and drinking plenty of water. I haven't used lope that frequently but I don't remember it making the constipation particularly worse. I do get laxatives to take every now and again when it gets particularly bad...the senna formulas work for me, but I try and take them sparingly (less than once a week), as you can get dependent on them so that you require them to take a dump at all.
 
Last edited:
Oh man! Feeling better just ain't the words! New life has flooded into me!

It's amazing how strong withdrawal hit me yesterday after missing only one dose. So much anxiety over that & other things rolled together to put me over the edge & into w/d. It was actually very telling & I'm glad I now know what it takes to get me into a bad place with this stuff. I really want off methadone in the worst way which is why each week I go down by 5mg. Well, I do stay at some doses for 2 or 3 weeks, but I've gone from a top of 90mg to 50mg now & I'm doing fine except when I don't have any!

Wow, I've never heard that you can get hooked on laxatives to crap!
 
Loperamide causes me to have a fever so I can't take it O.O

Ask your Doctor for Docusate sod + sennosides TA its a natural laxative. What I do every 2-3 days is take 1 Docusate + 1 glass benefibre mixed with whatever. I'm hardly every constipated now and go nearly everyday =D
 
I find that fibre is a must for methadone maintenance, after trying a few different types I've found 100% psyllium husk works the best for me, it's cheap and readily available. I have a couple of teaspoons with my methadone in the morning (straight after a shit) and now 99% of the time I have a comfortable routine, shit easily, dose and feel better. Before finding fibre I was always constipated, had indigestion most of the time, stomach aches, would not eat on purpose because I didn't want anything in my colon and when I had to go to the toilet, it was an effort to say the least. I'm not into those kinds of stories, but I had some horrid experiences before I learned that fibre really does help.
 
Suboxone Program in Australia

I have been on the Subox program for the last 4 months or so. Before I was junkie. Nuf said?
I'm on 14mg daily and pay $5 for my dose and 6 take aways. I think that's one great thing Australia does.
In this time I have been able to start to sort through my life, with the aid of a councilor and havent used (or drunk, which was an added bonus) since I started. I think the 14mg holds me nicely and even seems to give me energy to get through the day.
I'd would really like to know what other people think about suboxone, what is the "stable" dose thing, and if you should be able to stay on the program forever if it is works for you (and can you)? (At the moment I would stay on it)
Take care, hope to hear some words of wisdom :)
Marto
 
I went from high dose methadone to bupe.... subutex, then as I reduced the doctor switched me to temgesic and I'm opiate free these days and have been for the last 6 years. But after 20 years of methadone, then about 12 months on bupe it was painful to stop completely, it took 2 years to get enough energy to work and function normally.

But if I can do it anyone can lol
 
^ That's great that you're off your dependence now maddy, congrats.

Gotta say though, your description doesn't make me any more likely to want to jump off the only ship that keeps me sane.. and alive. I can't stand 1 day of withdrawals these days. Last time I was clean for a month was still shit - I wouldn't deal with years of it. No fucking way.
 
Maddy youre not in aus are you? Unless i missed the call that temgesic was put back on the market here. It was recently taken off around 2005 iirc.
 
I cant recall exactly why temgesic got taken off australian shelves. I think it was something to do with how little it was actually used. Kinda same story as to why hydrocodone was taken awsy as well.

Dont quote me on that though.
 
Is suboxone and valium a cure all for opiate/xanax and alcohol dependecy?
I was told naltrexone for alcohol but that you can't be on naltrexone and suboxone at the same time.
I was told suboxone for a few months to cure opi/zanny and then naltrexone for alcohol.
I'm more confused than when I left... Moonyah anyone???

I don't know for sure, but I think buprenorphine would actually have a higher affinity than naltrexone. In theory, it seems possible that you could be on naltrexone and suboxone at the same time without withdrawals, because the bupe would out compete the naltrexone - does anyone know this for sure? If that was the case though, there would be no point taking naltrexone at all. My bupe doc has also said I can't be on naltrexone and sub at the same time though.

I've been on naltrexone in the past for alcohol and I found it somewhat effective. I found it hard sticking to taking it every day. When you crave alcohol, it's hard to take something you know is going to diminish the experience. If I wanted to drink I just wouldn't take the pills. I guess it's like everything though, it's not a magic cure, but if you're committed to changing your habits, then naltrexone can give you a little assistance on your way.

I'm on baclofen now for alcohol and I find that more effective. Baclofen has the added benefit of treating alcohol withdrawals in a similar way to valium. I think that's good about it, in that as well as diminishing cravings, it's helping treat that physical dependence (which diminishes cravings in itself).
 
Hey Goonbag, none of those things are "cures" for anything. They all have their potential uses in helping you stop using other substances, but that also depends on your own motivations, how you use them, whether you address other issues while using them, etc. Were you told those were the only options by a doctor? Because there's definitely other pharmacotherapies for all those drugs. So if a doctor is telling you that's the only option, without having at least considered (and, for some reason, ruled out) the other options, it might not be a bad idea to get a second opinion.

As Footscrazy noted, taking naltrexone (opioid receptor antagonist) and buprenorphine (mu opioid receptor partial agonist) at the same time would be largely pointless because whichever one has the higher affinity to the receptor (buprenorphine, I suspect), would just prevent the other one from working at those receptors, so you'd just be paying for pills that are doing nothing of much use. But there are other pharmacotherapies for alcohol dependence too. Footscrazy's already pointed out baclofen. I've also heard of acamprosate, which is supposed to help reduce cravings and withdrawal symptoms for alcohol, and can be taken along with opioid replacement pharmacotherapy, though it's apparently only mildly effective. Then there's disulfiram which basically just makes you allergic to alcohol - i.e. it doesn't help with cravings or withdrawals, but if you drink while you're on it, you get violently ill from small amounts of alcohol, creating a strong incentive not to drink (assuming, of course, that you keep taking it every day, which also applies to all the other ones, i.e. it depends on your motivations too, not just the medication).

Naltrexone is supposed to be reasonably effective at reducing alcohol cravings and relapse compared to other treatments, but none of these medications are magic bullets. Naltrexone is also used in treatment of opiate dependence, to block the receptors so people can't get any effect from opioids. The drawback is that some people find naltrexone somewhat aversive (i.e. they feel unpleasant while on it) and I think it's use in treatment of opioid dependence is somewhat less credible than it used to be, particularly due to it rapidly lowering people's tolerance to zero, without solving the person's desire to get high, or the reasons they developed an addiction, so when they get off it, and go use opioids, there's a very high rate of ODs.

Valium is typically the main way they taper people off benzo dependence (and sometimes alcohol dependence), but theoretically any long-acting benzo could be used for that purpose (e.g. clonazepam). But for that to work you really have to be committed to sticking to the tapering regime and not drinking or using extra benzos on top, 'cause once you've developed tolerance, and are trying to reduce it, use of any extra benzos or alcohol will bump it back up very quickly and have you right back where you started. So yeah, you can use long-acting benzos to maintain and taper off, but it's only going to help you get "clean" in the long run with a lot of discipline and patience. Both the suboxone (or methadone, which is another option) and the valium may take a lot longer than a "few months" to get off once you've stabilised on them. If a doctor told you you just need a "few months" on valium and suboxone to "cure" your addiction, then I think they might be telling you what they think you want to hear, not what you really need to know.
 
Top