Why are drugs illegal?

[fairnymph]

He said nothing of the sort in his most recent post.

I thought he implied it pretty strongly, but you're right that he didn't say that explicitly. I guess we took home different points. But then I don't necessarily have a problem with mentally ill people using drugs, whether to self-medicate or not. I do know that for many disorders the legal medication options frankly suck, so I understand pursuing illegal drugs as an alternative.

 

[Mel22]

It's not about whether you can understand it or not. It's whether you think that overall, it is beneficial for a mentally ill person to use illicit, possibly adulterated and addictive substances without medical supervision or training in an attempt to treat their illness? You would advise this?

Some drugs will help certain mental illnesses

Treacle stated that the use of illicit drugs will "help" certain mental illnesses. Such a simplistic statement without addressing all of the other factors that are clearly at play is quite concerning.

why would someone take a drug that makes them feel even more ill?

And this statement is just utterly ridiculous. I don't think I need to explain why...

 

[Cornishman]

Alcohol has been helping people with anxiety issues for many a moon.

 

[Raasyvibe]

Drugs are not for everybody. Just as being a parent is not for everybody. If you are mentally ill the last thing you need is a chronic drug habit, no matter if you personally think it is a good idea. I'm all for personal rights when we talk about sane, intelligent individuals. Crazy folk live in a fantasy world and they are unfortunately the ones who give them a bad name. We are not all born equal no matter what your democratically elected government tells you

On second reading that does sound a bit arrogant. We're obviously born differently; but equal in right. Think you're insinuating sane people are better than those who have mental problems?

 

[One Thousand Words]

Are you saying they aren't? Why have rules for society? Why shouldn't I eat my children and play crochet in a morning suit?

If you think your brain is mentally stable enough to mess around with drugs I'm not about to stop you, however if you wind up walking naked past the local school and get bundled into a paddy van don't be surprised that the majority of society will tut tut and blame the evils of drugs, ruining it for the rest of us.

 

[Shambles]

Are you saying they aren't?

Yes.

Are you seriously saying folk with mental illness should be second-class citizens? Really? How would you like to fix that? Gas chambers, perhaps? Is what happened last time somebody got that idea in their heads.

You can go off folk y'know. Even nice, sane, middle-class folk

It's been said earlier but is worth repeating: it's not the fact that "crazy people" take drugs that is the problem. It's the fact that "crazy people" are left to their own devices to self-medicate cos mental health services have been chronically underfunded for decades. Don't blame the drugs - blame the lack of proper mental health services.

 

[One Thousand Words]

We aren't talking about people who are successfully self treating are we? We are talking about people who make things worse.

How is not doing drugs being classed as a second class citizen? Diabetics need to control their diets, you aren't allow to travel in a plane if you are heavily pregnant so why should the greater risks of drug use be ignored? Just because you want to? That's fine and dandy if you don't cause any one else trouble, but if that was the case the majority of society wouldn't have a bad impression of drug use in the first place.

 

[Shambles]

You're completely missing the point, OTW.

It's been said earlier but is worth repeating: it's not the fact that "crazy people" take drugs that is the problem. It's the fact that "crazy people" are left to their own devices to self-medicate cos mental health services have been chronically underfunded for decades. Don't blame the drugs - blame the lack of proper mental health services.

This is the point.

If mental health services were properly funded there wouldn't be dangerously deranged people wandering the streets and self-medicating. Whether you believe in self-medication or not matters nary a toss cos it provides relief to many. Unfortunately it can also massively exacerbate the symptoms for some too. Those will be the folks you're concerned with and those are the folks who have been let down by the mental health system. Some people actually do need to be in inpatient care but that stuff just ain't funded anymore so they are left to try to cope on their own. And - somewhat inevitibly - they gravitate towards street drugs trying to deal with their symptoms cos they aren't monitored properly so go off-meds.

You're placing the blame at the wrong door. You're blaming the symptom rather than the cause.

 

[One Thousand Words]

Some people are on anti depressant and then still cane mdma every weekend. Then they wonder why they suffer come Tuesday. You can't advocate freedom of personal rights on one hand then also the need for authorities to more control with the other. Some people need to take control of their own life and realise that drug use is not suitable for them.

 

[Shambles]

Of course I can argue both. Some people need to be taken into inpatient care for the safety of themselves and those around them. Personal freedom has some limits for me. I know many people who've had to be sectioned and - for the most part - it was for the best. That's not to say it's always the right option - horses for courses innit.

What I'm saying is that since inpatient treatment in particular stopped being properly funded there are far more dangerously deranged people "on the loose" and those people will often take drugs to try to alleviate their symptoms. Or indeed to exacerbate them sometimes cos being nutso can be fun sometimes. These are the people who whip out guns in shopping centres. The person taking eckies whilst on antideps is just silly cos most antideps block the effects of MDMA anyway. But they're not the ones pulling guns on themselves in shopping centres - that ain't depressive behaviour it's psychotic and/or schizophrenic stuff most likely.

Are there people who shouldn't take drugs? Yup. Does prohibition stop that? Nup. It's a red herring. But I do agree it's cases like these that the media relishes. But it's still a red herring and fuck all to do with why drugs are illegal. It does make for a handy scapegoat though.

 

[One Thousand Words]

We are afte all a community of drug users, so you or I aren't the ones who need convincing Shambles

 

[Shambles]

That's not quite how your posts have come across so far but given you've added a winky this time we can be chums again

 

[adam west]

im not going to trust thr word of a man who did done give my blog 2 yes 2 out of 10

 

[One Thousand Words]

That's not quite how your posts have come across so far but given you've added a winky this time we can be chums again

I'm just keeping my London connects happy









I'm still think I'm right.

 

[Shambles]

im not going to trust thr word of a man who did done give my blog 2 yes 2 out of 10

Jesus fukkin christ. I see what you mean. He's clearly insane rating it so high 8(

I'm just keeping my London connects happy









I'm still think I'm right.

Nah. You's pussy'ole, innit blud. Brappbrapp, beeeatch.

 

[Morphling]

Sorry One Thousand, I didn't see your reply earlier, but Shambles finished making that point for me, I think. In very simple words, in some cases, the mentally ill are using drugs to treat their mental illness. So should the mentally ill be using drugs? Well, they should be using the right drugs, obviously, under appropriate medical supervision, not unregulated and improperly dosed chemicals available on the street.

Would legalization and proper regulation of drugs obviate societal ills caused by substance abuse? No, of course not, but it seems to cut down on crime and associated health-related issues that are a secondary cause to substance abuse in the first place.

 

[NightsEpiphany]

Is there not something in the BLUA about the way bluelighters are to talk about or to people with disabilities? Has this been mentioned ? 1000 words is a mod so should know.

Es ist verbotten to:

post or upload any content that victimizes, harasses, degrades, or intimidates an individual or group of individuals on the basis of race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or any other reason;

actually doesnt mention making derogatory remarks about mentally unusual people specifically but I think the 'other reason covers it'

 

[One Thousand Words]

This is a Harm reduction forum. As a mod I have the responsibilty to stay alive, stay out of prison (or the psych ward) and not get addicted. I have been here over ten years and unfortunately I cant say that every mod in my time has managed the same.

 

[PhyllipThylamine]

What would be nice is if everyone could please stop having pain! That way the rest of us can use pain killing meds for fun!

You moderate The Lounge, Words??? I would've thought a moderator would be a little more moderate in their public expression of opinion. I guess not.

 

[Inso]

Are you saying they aren't? Why have rules for society? Why shouldn't I eat my children and play crochet in a morning suit?

If you think your brain is mentally stable enough to mess around with drugs I'm not about to stop you, however if you wind up walking naked past the local school and get bundled into a paddy van don't be surprised that the majority of society will tut tut and blame the evils of drugs, ruining it for the rest of us.

There are a great many 'mentally stable' (as if anyone can be truly sure of that) people who have casually used drugs for years then due to changing circumstances fall into addiction. Let's say a city worker uses cocaine every weekend for a long time with no issues at all, then suddenly his wife leaves him, his company goes under, etc and he then falls into alcoholism/cocaine abuse as a result of the consequent depression. He may have been completely together beforehand and one of the 'people who can handle their drugs' or whatever, but things can change. The idea that there is this black and white line between the crazies ruining it for the rest of us a and the normals who can take drugs without issues is a bit silly.

Then you have the point that alcohol is readily available to all, causes untold problems in making already crazy/violent people even more so, yet society is not crumbling as a result of anyone being able to access it legally.