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Is this the 'tobacco moment' for cannabis?

Ismene said:
Yeah but it's anecdotal isn't it swedge. The fact is schizophrenia rates arn't exploding - which they definately would've done if cannabis was triggering it. You can't introduce a schizophrenia-causing drug to a population and go from no-one in the population using it 50 years ago to 5 or 10 million people using it heavily every day and not see a massive increase in schizophrenia rates. It simply isn't impossible.
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How do you know diagnosis rates of schizophrenia wouldn't have fallen more if cannabis wasn't used recreationally?
 
Ceres said:
How do you know diagnosis rates of schizophrenia wouldn't have fallen more if cannabis wasn't used recreationally?
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So if the schizophrenia rates have remained the same for 100 years, that somehow masks the fact that without cannabis they would have dropped even lower?

I suppose we'd have to look at how many people have schizophrenia who've never smoked cannabis and see whether those numbers have gone up or down?
 
parttime crackhead said:
^ I think we all know why that is.

Just in case someone's had their head in the sand for years though - If weed was the cure (or at least beneficial) to whatever medical ailment I had then after a couple hundred quid initial investment I could grow my "medicine" at home practically free & completely bypass the pharmaceutical industry & the obscene profits that it makes. It takes medication out of the hand of global businesses & into the hands of wee Davie in his greenhouse.
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That's not quite the whole story tho - it's not just a financial imperative for big pharmacorp, otherwise they'd legalise all the other drugs that they could make profits on. Could wee Davie the corner wanker make his own acid for example? Big pharma could make a fortune on acid.
 
Financial incentive is a major part of it though in the case of cannabis. It has to be. I've never seen anyone talk about acid, or MDMA, or any other recreational drug & say (to quote Inso) "The medical uses for X are endless". The other stuff that they could legalise would be for people to take for fun, not as a medicine.

No doctors are saying to people on the sly "I can't prescribe you it because it's illegal but taking LSD every day will definitely help you". Are they?

There's no major movements/debates about "medical ecto" (other than in therapy etc, given a controlled dose under observation, totally different story to weed) the way there is about cannabis. Cannabis is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to help with specific conditions, yet people still have to break the law to get it. I'm sure a lot of studies that go against cannabis legalisation will be funded by "Big Pharma", as will a lot of lobby groups, as they know they have a lot to lose.
 
parttime crackhead said:
Financial incentive is a major part of it though in the case of cannabis. It has to be. I've never seen anyone talk about acid, or MDMA, or any other recreational drug & say (to quote Inso) "The medical uses for X are endless".
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I dunno quite a lot of talk about MDMA for post-traumatic stress disorder, K for depression, LSD for the terminally ill, mushrooms for depression, LSD for cluster headaches. There's quite a few.

Cannabis is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to help with specific conditions, yet people still have to break the law to get it.

Can't they get that "sativat" or whatever it's called legally tho?
 
It even suppresses cancer cells for fucks sake. That doc I was on about said how they studied a large group of tobacco smokers and weed smokers and found the weed guys had no higher incidence whatsoever of lung cancer despite inhaling carcinogens all day. Although we kind of fuck it up here by mixing baccy with our weed hehe

But yeah as you say PTCH, for MS it truly provides incredible relief to people. I remember seeing this programme where an MS sufferer was mailing weed out to people she met on a forum. And I bet many doctors secretly wish they could prescribe it.
 
Ismene said:
I dunno quite a lot of talk about MDMA for post-traumatic stress disorder, K for depression, LSD for the terminally ill, mushrooms for depression, LSD for cluster headaches. There's quite a few.

Cannabis is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to help with specific conditions, yet people still have to break the law to get it.

Can't they get that "sativat" or whatever it's called legally tho?
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I don't know anything about sativat. I'm guessing it's a "weed pill"? For want of a better term. If they can actually get all the same effects from that then aye, that blows the whole medical use reason for legalisation right out the window. Completely. I suspect that it doesn't quite do what weed does or every debate ever about medical cannabis would just be gunned down by one word "sativat".

The other drugs you mention don't have the ludicrously long list of things they help with & the ludicrously minimal side effects of cannabis though.

Inso - The few people I have spoke to who personally have experience with seeing the difference in people they know with MS who smoke weed say that it's incredible. I mean, my gran's the sort of person who would have thought of this woman as "a druggy" & point blank refused to go & get her weed, probably only just stopped short of going to the police, but even she could see the obvious benefits of it over her other medication as she was the one caring for her & could witness it first hand.
 
Ismene said:
Can't they get that "sativat" or whatever it's called legally tho?
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They can buy a few synthetic cannabinoids legally off the rc market, for the time being anyway. Would be interesting to hear opinions from people who've used them to help medical conditions.
 
parttime crackhead said:
The other drugs you mention don't have the ludicrously long list of things they help with & the ludicrously minimal side effects of cannabis though.
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I dunno, I'd put mushrooms up against cannabis in the harmless stakes. Especially if you're smoking the cannabis.

But I agree with you it's an boon for a lot of illnesses - I just think it's more down to moralising anti-drug warriors than big pharma.
 
Mushrooms don't also have the long list of things they help though. My point about that was the harm vs the help not just the harm.

Even if cannabis causes schizophrenia it helps with so many other things that the benefits far outweigh the potential negative side-effects. Far more so, in fact ridiculously more so than many medicines on the market at the moment.

Think you're probably right with regards to the anti-drugs warriors being the main thing to be fair, because I suppose they could always legalise it to be bought from dispensaries (like California etc but have these run by Glaxo-Smithkline or whatever) but not legalise home-growing.
 
parttime crackhead said:
^ I think we all know why that is.
Just in case someone's had their head in the sand for years though - If weed was the cure (or at least beneficial) to whatever medical ailment I had then after a couple hundred quid initial investment I could grow my "medicine" at home practically free & completely bypass the pharmaceutical industry & the obscene profits that it makes. It takes medication out of the hand of global businesses & into the hands of wee Davie in his greenhouse.
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I don't reckon the majority of people would do this though. Perhaps some people would, but if you could get it at a reasonable price legally I'm sure most of us would buy it. Its pretty simple for somebody to brew their own beer or grow your own tobacco, but not many people do it.
 
^ Of course not, I probably wouldn't because I'm a lazy cunt. Kind of comes with the territory lol. I didn't really put it across in the best way, I was kind of meaning that it would remove the monopoly that they have. You can't grow your own cancer medication. Doesn't matter so much in this country, but in places like America where people literally can't afford to buy medicine it does.

I think if you were using it daily & using it truly for purely medical reasons then you probably would grow it. If the difference was an NHS weed prescription then of course not, but if the difference was £10 a g then aye.
 
parttime crackhead said:
^ Of course not, I probably wouldn't because I'm a lazy cunt. Kind of comes with the territory lol. I didn't really put it across in the best way, I was kind of meaning that it would remove the monopoly that they have. You can't grow your own cancer medication. Doesn't matter so much in this country, but in places like America where people literally can't afford to buy medicine it does.

I think if you were using it daily & using it truly for purely medical reasons then you probably would grow it. If the difference was an NHS weed prescription then of course not, but if the difference was £10 a g then aye.
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Ah I'm with you, you can't patent a plant (hence sativex or whatever its called).

Tbh my argument is more against the morons I hear spouting "it's illegal cuz they can't tax a plant", well they do a pretty good job at taxing tobacco...
 
Ismene said:
I wouldn't be too quick to assume the rat research is worth a low-quality wank. Remember their "research" into rats on Ecstasy - what they do is inject massive quantities (far more than any human could possibly consume) DIRECTLY into the rats brain EVERY 4 hours for 5 or 6 days in a row, then they cut the rats brain open, look at a few synapses and then claim "There you druggie cunts, see what E does to you?"
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... & then they discovered that their Methamphetamine bottle had been mislabeled & it turned out the rats had been massively dosed on Meth, not MDMA Lol Annecdotal evidence from Rodent Weekly & published online at ratsandmiceondrugs.org suggests that nontheless, the rats had a cracking time!

Actually, I think it was some Rebus monkey MDMA/Methamphetamine experiment cock-up I'm alluding to, but I'm only trying to have a laugh. Sorry ;)
 
monstanoodle said:
I'd really love to try out Cannabidiol solely.
Sounds fantastic and, when I have the odd toke on a spliff, I enjoy it much more and with less ARG! symptoms when it has more traits of an Indica strain.
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Vape your weed at 180 degrees to vape all the THC off (don't inhale this if you don't like THC), then vape it again at 220 (inhale this), this gets all the CBN's, CBD's etc....

I've smoked weed that I've vaped at 180....I never usually vape higher, as i like the THC...but if I've been out of weed I've smoked the vaped stuff, and its relaxing, but doesn't give me what I want....I use it as a bed for vaping DMT off, and am sure its good for chilling things out....
 
Sativex is already being prescribed in this country.

It's a farce. Some health authorities will prescribe it, others not.

It's produced by GW pharmaceuticals iirc, and is a cannabis tincture, extracted oil, dissolved, and delivered in a little spray bottle to be sprayed under or on the tongue.

GW make a lot of money on this, and it's approved because it's a clinically controlled product. It supposedly tackles MS symptoms, without the recreational high.

This is fucking nonsense. GW grow low THC strains, but not THC free strains. The WHOLE PLANT is extracted, not just the CBD's....

Its the same as anyone who grows can do. They present it as a modern miracle, but its not, they are just legitimately growing weed, extracting the oil, and selling it at a large profit, and at great cost to the NHS.

If I was to do the same, I'd be put inside.

I do know some people who are doing this, preparing tinctures for cancer patients. This is highly illegal though.
 
parttime crackhead said:
Does it become class A once you extract it? Or have I made that up?

I know other drugs certainly change class depending on what you've done with them.
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No, its still Class B, I think.. there's a lot of myths about that, used to be a myth going round that skunk was class A.

Making oil is a piece of piss, making good hash is a bit harder, but is far better quality than the oil you can make.
 
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