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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
Drug tests for People trying to get the dole
- Thread starter thestudent14
- Start date
Well on the other hand, I know of lots of folks who make avery decent living selling, and only see the dole as a cover/bonus.
Divine Moments
Bluelight Crew
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 1,782
Haha you make it sound like they're doing it as a public service, out of the goodness of their hearts :D
hey, it's profitable but it doesn't mean there aren't dealers out there doing a major service to the community!
i don't buy drugs from scummy cunts when i can avoid it; everyone i buy drugs off that is actually a "dealer" is a human being i can trust.
none of them live large, all of them are as trustworthy as any of my other friends - ie, i trust them as much as i'd like to think i trust them.
the flashiest drug dealers i've ever known have also been hopeless, shambling addicts as well, which is sort of funny/sad. especially when they're you're friends.
sure, i don't often use drugs that i would associate with scary or greedy dealers - a lot of the dealers i know work hard to make sure the people they sell to are happy, as well as being more or less 'on call' all the time, not to mention all of the other dealer paranoias/inconveniences.
there are probably plenty of people on here that are intimately familiar with greedy, unethical, lying dealers who shortchange people and expect way more than they deserve for what they are doing for you.
my drug circles are fairly tame, by choice.
i'm not necessarily pro-dealer or pro-dealing (and i'm not a dealer myself) but as an individual who is interested in drugs, i am generally appreciative that there are people out there that are willing to sell some to the likes of me. respect for that.
if less people were willing to take the risk/general fuckaround of being a dealer in the first place, drugs would be harder to get. and that would suck.
if people want to cop the dole and sell some weed that's ok by me
i don't buy drugs from scummy cunts when i can avoid it; everyone i buy drugs off that is actually a "dealer" is a human being i can trust.
none of them live large, all of them are as trustworthy as any of my other friends - ie, i trust them as much as i'd like to think i trust them.
the flashiest drug dealers i've ever known have also been hopeless, shambling addicts as well, which is sort of funny/sad. especially when they're you're friends.
sure, i don't often use drugs that i would associate with scary or greedy dealers - a lot of the dealers i know work hard to make sure the people they sell to are happy, as well as being more or less 'on call' all the time, not to mention all of the other dealer paranoias/inconveniences.
there are probably plenty of people on here that are intimately familiar with greedy, unethical, lying dealers who shortchange people and expect way more than they deserve for what they are doing for you.
my drug circles are fairly tame, by choice.
i'm not necessarily pro-dealer or pro-dealing (and i'm not a dealer myself) but as an individual who is interested in drugs, i am generally appreciative that there are people out there that are willing to sell some to the likes of me. respect for that.
if less people were willing to take the risk/general fuckaround of being a dealer in the first place, drugs would be harder to get. and that would suck.
if people want to cop the dole and sell some weed that's ok by me
thestudent14
Bluelighter
I understand your point. But the more you think about it the less it makes sense.
I was on the dole (legitimately as I was searching for work and have since found a job and started a new uni course), but whilst I was recieving my payments I was doing drugs weekly, I was not paying for any of these. I have friends who would give me budd or speed on the weekends. And In the drug community "ticking" is extremely common, which pretty much means I'll pay you back as soon as I can.
If I had failed a drug test, for a drug that I wasn't paying for, I would've ended up without money to afford car expenses and drive to get a job (which is a very high requirement in job searching).
Furthermore, how long do you become illegible to get back no the dole?
We have these welfare payments so that people can get by, just. Normally enough for rent, food, petrol, if you stretch it maybe a slab a fortnight depending on your living circumstances. The moment you take this away from people who already take drugs, for the people who aren't addicts (>95%) they are unfairly losing oppurtunity's to find a job. And for the people who are addicts, they will find a way to feed their habit, this could mean starving themselves or turning to crime (most likely drug dealing)
I think very very few people use their welfare solely for drug use. I've seen people do this, but even them it was only for a few months until they decided they wanted to get a new job and start then next chapter in their life. Recieving welfare allowed them to get through darker times in their life, and move forwards.
I guarentee you, that drug testing on this scale will have nearly no benefits and cause lots and lots of problems. This is before you go into the time and cost of drug testing everyone which would dramatically outweigh the cost of paying people on welfare.
DeathDomokun
Ex-Bluelighter
I'm not a big fan of government and taxes and shit, especially when it is fucked. Flawed welfare still occurs, I mean the war on drugs is still thriving through the conditioning of the populous and creating wrong legal consequences for false criminalities. All I can fucking see is delusion.
I'm sorry but if you start name calling on a forum when we're all having a sensible discussion then it says more about you then me.
I don't care if it's 0.00001% of my taxed wage that goes on welfare it's still 0.000001% of my money (and everyone else's that pays tax).
I'm not against welfare I'm against it being abused for drugs when it's meant to be a safety net for people struggling.
I didn't think the policy had anything to do with student support payments...?
Australopithecus
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2012
- Messages
- 32
Actually no none of its your money. Your taxes are not your money they are the governments aka societies not yours. Let me guess you use roads yes? Have you personally paid the full cost of every road you have ever used? No? Then you owe society for use of roads and other societal goods. Society calculates what you can afford to contribute and then taxes this amount. You are paying for the priviledge of living in civil society and using the (everything around you) societal goods and good. You would be NOWHERE without society. Society owes you nothing in return for your taxes you owe socity in return for what it gives you. Thus taxes are no more YOUR money than when you make a purchase from the shops and the money paid remains yours and you get a say in how the shopkeeper spends the money you give him. Get it?
You're looking at it from the offside of the coin to what I am.
I'm looking at it from - if I don't like this policy because it's costing the tax payer money then I'll vote in a government that cuts the spending for it, then cuts taxes and hence increases money my net pay (in a very simplistic example).
It's my money because I'm paid a salary and depending on policies/tax law for the year then it depends on how much of it goes to the government. You do know in some countries you don't pay tax?
The money is my money because it's in my wallet until I spend it and if I don't like the price the shop is charging me I'll buy it cheaper somewhere else or in the political example vote for someone else.
Wow... this is getting off topic
thestudent14
Bluelighter
I agree it's your money, and you should absolutely have the right to vote for whatever party fits your beliefs.
I do think however if you read into the topic as much as I and many of the other bluelighters have, I think you would see it from out side. I think few people would vote for this if they were as informed as us. This is my belief, I may be wrong, but from my experience, most people who would vote for this to be passed are generally less informed. Most of the media (nearly all) is very one sided against drug use, this makes it difficult to make for most people to have a balanced view towards this topic and drug use in general.
I would like to know a bit more about you nin (without being specific). Most of the people on this forum are experienced with drug use and it's surroundings, i'm surprised anyone on this forum is for this, I'm glad to have someone on the other side of the fence, because it makes for good discussion.
I don't want people to insult you, I just want to know your side of the story, and I would like to know more of the reasons why you think this law should be passed.
I understand when you say you don't want your money to go to feeding peoples habits, but I have little doubt it would save money from the costs that would go to doing all these tests + the potential damages to society.
Do you believe that this will get people jobs quicker? I'm skeptical to the likelihood of this, I believe for the majority of drug users it doesn't impact their chance of getting a job (I know drug users on and off this forum who have quit drug use to get a job because of drug tests), The majority of people aren't drug users, so all this will do is cost time and money to drug test them. And the minority of dependent drug users, who are at risk of getting sick from withdrawls might give them the kick they need to find a job, but I wouldn't be surprised if many of them turn to crime instead.
Sorry for the long rant, I'm just really baked right now haha =)
Hey thestudent,
Without going into too much detail I'm a professional in my field of work (8 years of study)
I first tried ecstasy in about 2003 and have used it on and off ever since
I hate the war on drugs (such a waste of money and could be taxed if made legal)
Been on this site for years but only signed up with an account a couple of years ago during the MDMA drought.
I agree with the above stated policy (in simple theory) for the simple fact that I don't believe tax payer money should be wasted and used for drug use but having said that I didn't mean to come across as though I support the policy 100% as I haven't read the finer details.
The one part that annoyed me is the people saying that it's their money and they should be able to spend it on what they want, as I stated above it's not really their money it's the tax payers money to support people struggling for food etc..
I did say above it would be interesting to know what will happen if someone does test positive to a drug test??
I would have thought something like food stamps may solve this problem if they do test positive... but maybe even that can be traded for drugs..
laugh
Ex-Bluelighter
theres heaps of professionals around here...did you end up getting the 'imaprofessional' tatto on your forehead?
heaps of people been doing drugs for longer than 8 years...are they 'professional' junkies?
are you being for real with the food stamps line?
"As Marx later explained, it was a question 'of what the proletariat is and what, in accordance with this being, it will historically be compelled to do'' - the communist manifesto
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Busty St Clare
Ex-Bluelighter
The dole is for people to "live" in our society. One mans poison is another's elixir. While I can understand the frustration of watching someone bludge the days away in front of the television, pulling cones and drinking beer I hardly envy their life. Sure I wouldn't mind not having to work but living only off the dole is hardly the luxurious life. If they prefer to live in sparse accommodation or even worse at home with the parents then they can keep that.
There are plenty of more pressing "wasting" of my tax payer dollars. I don't see why we have to pay to keep patients alive for years at a time on life support, or subsidise lung transplants in smokers or supply soldiers to kill civilians while wearing the flag of my country. Unfortunately I don't get to decide if a warfare recipient buys fresh fruit and veg instead of a bottle of rum either so I'll just have to wear that disappointment.
There are plenty of more pressing "wasting" of my tax payer dollars. I don't see why we have to pay to keep patients alive for years at a time on life support, or subsidise lung transplants in smokers or supply soldiers to kill civilians while wearing the flag of my country. Unfortunately I don't get to decide if a warfare recipient buys fresh fruit and veg instead of a bottle of rum either so I'll just have to wear that disappointment.
yagecero
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
- Messages
- 312
Ha! Yeah, I'm lucky enough to exactly what I love doing - I certainly don't earn shitloads, though.
Well said, man.
There may be plenty of more pressing wasting of tax dollars but we're only speaking of one topic here and as I said before I don't care if it's 0.00001% of our tax dollars it's still a waste and that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop the waste (OMG did I just turn into Tony Abbott).
As for the professional quote, treat me for what I am I don't care I was only giving some background to thestudent and to who ever reads this because I know most people think drug users are bludger (I'm not here to dick size trust me I'm very small).
yagecero
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
- Messages
- 312
Your ignorance is palpable. Have you even read the thread? Or are you just going to continue spouting a load right-wing rhetoric until you explode? Nobody chooses to be poor. Trust me, in the past there have been times when I lived on the money from government benefits, and it definitely wasn't enough money to "bludge" on. If I wanted any social life at all, I had to hustle (interpret that how you will), and to be frank, it takes a lot of effort to live that way. Not to mention the basic concessions you have to make.
Your attitude is straight out of a tabloid newspaper.
^so troll someplace else.
this is a harm reduction forum, not a "let's become america" website. the aims of this forum have a lot to do with being a voice of compassion in a world of bullshit propaganda. we're talking about explicitly discriminating about drug users in a forum for/about/of drug users.
in australian society the safety net of welfare is harm reduction at its finest/most simple.
food stamps? this ain't the depression. don't believe the hype - aussies have it unbelievably good right now.
but you never know what's around the corner, so all you tony abbott / gina rhinehart / alan joneses can just stay in your troll cave, please. not all of us are corporate mouthpiece whores that can afford to take a cheap shot at welfare recipients.
some australians passionately believe in "a fair go" whatever the fuck that means nowadays. to me it means helping the vulnerable when they're doing it tough.
can you dig that?
this is a harm reduction forum, not a "let's become america" website. the aims of this forum have a lot to do with being a voice of compassion in a world of bullshit propaganda. we're talking about explicitly discriminating about drug users in a forum for/about/of drug users.
in australian society the safety net of welfare is harm reduction at its finest/most simple.
food stamps? this ain't the depression. don't believe the hype - aussies have it unbelievably good right now.
but you never know what's around the corner, so all you tony abbott / gina rhinehart / alan joneses can just stay in your troll cave, please. not all of us are corporate mouthpiece whores that can afford to take a cheap shot at welfare recipients.
some australians passionately believe in "a fair go" whatever the fuck that means nowadays. to me it means helping the vulnerable when they're doing it tough.
can you dig that?