Ayahuasca, DMT and Serpents

[Ismene]

2. There are non-literalist interpretations of these things, that that just might be a way of saying paradise is really really pleasant but you can't even imagine it so this is how we'll put it (even some Christian denominations use sensual imagery like that even though Jesus stated that in the Kingdom of Heaven men would be as the angels are).

Still trying to think of a reason why nature would go to the trouble of creating some mysteroius, undetectible form of continuing the consciousness of billions of human beings after their own death. What purpose would it serve apart from easing the fear of death?

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Why do you think that atheism cannot address morality, identity and meaning as well as religion can? Morality seems easy enough to figure out to me.

If we lack an objective basis for morality, it is subjective, thus nihilism is the rational end of that. Any attempts at justifying morality under this framework are pure intellectual dishonesty, at best it makes it the realm of consensus but that's not self-justifying since there's no reason a group opinion is superior to an individual one.

Basically the idea of subjective morality lets me slip into sociopathic addict mode, and there's no real reason for that to be considered an errant way of thinking unless we make a lot of arbitrary a priori assumptions.

If you have happened to come across some unassailble moral framework derived from logic, I recommend you take a break from posting here, publish a book or take your theory to the experts and step up to your rightful place as the greatest philosophic mind in human history. (I don't mean to sound jerk-ish, just reminding ya that the no one has succeeded at this yet).

I agree with you that myth and man are inseperable, but at the same time I reject that those myths are literally true.

Hermann Hesse wrote an excellent short story about this, Bird, it's in Pictor's Metaphormaphoses and Other Fantasies

Still trying to think of a reason why nature would go to the trouble of creating some mysteroius, undetectible form of continuing the consciousness of billions of human beings after their own death. What purpose would it serve apart from easing the fear of death?

Theosis or pure perversity (to those of you with major theodicy issues)? Don't ask me, ask a theologian. My two points were only addressing the parenthetical comment at the end of your post, and the sentence previous to it.

 

[motiv311]

I think I am a sort of "paganist" after my explorations. .


I think I have a working hypothesis.

It has to do with dualities , opposing truths.

For instance without dark their would be no light. Without hate/fear- then no love.

So in a universe of "Nothing-ness" - there must be some sort of polar opposite - or "something-ness"

This somethingness is "god" - the tiny bit of anything in a void of nothingness.

god is singular and is neither good nor bad. He/it is made up of all things. The same source matter from which god resides, we humans have sprung forth. Therefore we could be either a side-effect of that being's existense, or more likely just a thought or a dream in an all powerful entities fantasy.

We are doing work here on earth by uniting the darker/earthier "heavy" dimensions with the light. If the light/intelligence cannot comprimise with the darkness/nothingness/void ---- than all is lost.

 

[TangerinO]

Why not try and base your beliefs on evidence tho? Is there any evidence that when you die you actually survive your own death in some bizarre "spirit" form?

Knowing what happens after you die is not common sense in the slightest

It is. When you step on a bug it dies. It stops moving, stops breathing and it's corpse begins to rot. Or do you think the insects "spirit" lives on in insect heaven? Doesn't it strike you as unlikely?

You don't know what it is to be anything other than your current living self, just like the rest of us.

Except there is this phenomeon known as death. Which is the cessation of life. I'm happy to accept this concept. Why do you believe that you somehow survive your own death?

It's a total mystery

No mystery whatsoever. You take your dog to be put to sleep and it dies. You carry it home in a bag and take it to the crematorium. Nothing mysterious about it as far as I can see. What do you find mysterious about it? It's sad but I can't see anything mysterious about it. Certainly nothing so mysterious as to make me believe there are several billion people floating around the clouds in "spirit" form who have all survived their own death.

Actually Ismene I did not indicate my beliefs at all if you read back on what I said. Just playing devils advocate is all.

It certainly does strike me as unlikely, I'm just saying just because something is unlikely does not make it impossible.

I never said I believe in an after life, but I don't believe with total certainty that there's not one either.
I'm more inclined to believe there's not one, but I'm even more inclined to accept the fact that I simply don't know rather than pretending I do.

 

[1394]

Because Salvia made me not mostly witness "beings" (although it did that too) but it made me experience multiple dimensions of reality, in an extremely convincing way. Not just visually, or mentally, but physically as well.

I can think of no explanation for the Salvia experience except that it unlocks your brain to experience true alternate realities. You just can't imagine or preconceive the things that happen on a strong Salvia trip.

Also it cannot be simply delusions, because many many people experience a similar, very realistic and profound effect. There is even a goddess associated with Salvia, which I have experienced as well.

Some things are just too weird and real to completely deny.

Even Ayahuasca seemed like simple fantasy compared to Salvia Divinorum -- the truth that we cannot fully comprehend.

It's a real shame it's been banned in most of the western world now. It's also a real shame it became popular among kids and Miley Cyrus and people like that who gave it unneeded attention.

I'll find some seeds and grow my own. One day. The Salvia goddess is very welcoming to those who treat her with respect.

I never needed more than 5x Salvia though to break through... and smoked regular leaves most of the time. All this 20x, 40x and 60x extracts are what ruined it for everyone.

I have also "broken through" with DMT, which is mild and unrealistic in comparison with Salvia. I have also smoked DMT and Salvia at the same time, which was VERY interesting.

Imagine the DMT world being folded like an accordian and then turned into a flip-book, turned on it's head and transformed into an escalator of dimensions by the Salvia. It's rather clear which is the more powerful substance when you do them together

^ This post.

Very, very true about only needing 5x to break through, more than that is just well... silly in a way as you can't remember most of what you experience.

 

[bluedom]

I mostly think your hypothesis is right. But why have only one "anything" in a void of nothing? Why not have many "anythings"?

I think dualities are a necessary consequence of autonomous systems which is a necessary consequence of complexity (as in chaos theory).

But indeed you could say using the language of metaphor that we are a dream by our universe (and perhaps by our multiverse but it is not clear that the multiverse is sentient).

Why do you say "he" for a god? And do you mean by "compromise with the darkness"? Is there another intelligence at work there?

I'll go one up on you. There is perhaps a one god that comprises both the darkness and the light and is united. It is only our distortions of perception that we see things in terms of darkness/light and of a lack of unity when perhaps there is harmony in almost everything except human activities.

I think I am a sort of "paganist" after my explorations. .


I think I have a working hypothesis.

It has to do with dualities , opposing truths.

For instance without dark their would be no light. Without hate/fear- then no love.

So in a universe of "Nothing-ness" - there must be some sort of polar opposite - or "something-ness"

This somethingness is "god" - the tiny bit of anything in a void of nothingness.

god is singular and is neither good nor bad. He/it is made up of all things. The same source matter from which god resides, we humans have sprung forth. Therefore we could be either a side-effect of that being's existense, or more likely just a thought or a dream in an all powerful entities fantasy.

We are doing work here on earth by uniting the darker/earthier "heavy" dimensions with the light. If the light/intelligence cannot comprimise with the darkness/nothingness/void ---- than all is lost.

 

[RattleSnake]

didn't read all the replies (tl;dr) anyway seeing reptiles/reptile-like/serpent-like creatures on DMT is very common, some ancient cultures believed in "Anunnaki" who are reptile-like aliens who created mankind as servants, so there might be something more to that, but I think that just like you those ancient cultures were just tripping balls...
EDIT: some anunnaki are human like, but some are reptilian... it's very weird if you look into it, also there is a reptilian part of your brain called the pineal gland and is the most primitive part of the brain and it came from earth reptiles, coincidentally the pineal gland (sometimes referred to as "the third eye") is responsible for the trace amounts of DMT in your brain... might be some freaky interaction which makes your brain remember it's earliest ancestors or something...

 

[motiv311]

I mostly think your hypothesis is right. But why have only one "anything" in a void of nothing? Why not have many "anythings"?

I think dualities are a necessary consequence of autonomous systems which is a necessary consequence of complexity (as in chaos theory).

But indeed you could say using the language of metaphor that we are a dream by our universe (and perhaps by our multiverse but it is not clear that the multiverse is sentient).

Why do you say "he" for a god? And do you mean by "compromise with the darkness"? Is there another intelligence at work there?

I'll go one up on you. There is perhaps a one god that comprises both the darkness and the light and is united. It is only our distortions of perception that we see things in terms of darkness/light and of a lack of unity when perhaps there is harmony in almost everything except human activities.

I believe it is our job to help reconcile the light and dark into one flowing harmony. They are equally important, both the void, and the non-void (or god)
You're right, I shouldn't refer to god as male, just bad habit I guess. I do want to bear my testimony tho, that the "old gods" who we can contact via plants and herbs, miss us, and want us to comunicate with them and the other species of this planet via ayahuasca, ibogaine, mushrooms etc. etc.

When I do ayahuasca I see the serpents, even still, (and on dmt) , and when I do see them, it gets deeper and deeper every time ... They show me a bridge that connects heaven and earth. The serpent bridge feels very "celestial" in nature. Very heavenly. The first time I saw the serpents I was horrified for a second... they were showing me their teeth in aztec fashion, and then I felt like a mouse! Ohhhh are they gonna eat me~!!! Its ok, you guys go ahead and eat me. They seemed to like that and got even closer to me as if to say "This guy gets it!" surrender to your dieties and their servents hahah

 

[Foreigner]

I believe there is some kind of connection between all the serpentine imagery seen in all human cultures, and the human psyche. Maybe it's that before our neo-cortex formed, our ancient pre-human brains were based on a reptilian foundation. I don't know.

I've seen jeweled serpents at some point or another on all psychedelics and I'm not someone who really thinks about snakes that much. I tend to find them sacred, and while I will not remain attached to them by believing they are real, I do think they carry a higher meaning.

 

[Butterwood]

when people say "broke through" what do you mean?
like leaving your body behind and going somewhere with an entity?
ive smoked 25x salvia multiple times and havent broken through
ive always been in the same place just everything was warped but was still very conscious of what was happening around me
maybe need to smoke more

 

[Foreigner]

^ Usually a breakthrough involves some kind of dissolution of ego, or an intense disassociation from normal reality, that brings big realizations and epiphanies.

 

[Butterwood]

^ahhh alright then i suppose i have broken through on my recent first lsd exp
i felt like i was almost too good for this world and was ready to move on
then i was sitting in the back seat of a car and thought i wasnt real..but that it was okay to have this feeling

 

[vegan]

i only get abstract visuals and patterns on oral dmt, but i always get strands of colour zooming past that one could definitely interpret as snakes if he were looking for a more folkloric interpretation
do you clearly see the snakes' heads?

 

[motiv311]

Yes ^ I do.... they are aztec / mayan looking usually. Like dragons' heads with big saw-like teeth. very masculine.

Other times the snakes look like "corn snakes" with orange and black thick stripes. These snakes are more feminine in nature.

When I trip REALLY hard. I see "griffons" very reptillian looking creatures with majestic turquoise wings and a big beak and lions body.