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[MEGA]Synthetic Cannabinoid Discussion- 2nd Toke

No, actually 250 escaped the first round of bans and wasn't listed with the original five. You're probably thinking of the bill that recently passed the House, H.R. 1254. Luckily, the accompanying bill in Senate, S. 605 was indefinitely suspended after Rand Paul's amazing speech about limiting the medicinal potential of synthetic cannabinoids. Unluckily, the DEA and HHS have a new scheme in the works...
 
I never read the original ban I just remembered some of the spice blends I got specificly said they didn't contain it so I kinda (incorrectly) extrapolated that if they were listing it as not in there it was due to a ban...
 
CBD gives you the down-home, all-is-comfortable-and-right feeling. It is relaxing.
THC gives you "the chills" when listening to music, and makes you feel like your brain is being "opened up" to the senses. It also makes you paranoid and anxious.

The anxiety is not in your head, it is a real effect of THC. It plays onto your already-existing anxiety (because you are failing classes / have no money / are in a bad relationship or whatever) and enhances it greatly.

-If you wish to reduce anxiety, smoke lower quality weed (less THC) or strands with higher CBD ratios (usually Indicas).

Or, just sort out your problems, get good rest and food, and smoke when it won't interfere with your obligations. Like any other drug, don't do it every day and take longer breaks occasionally. You will enjoy it.
 
I hate when people say that.

Marijuana is anxiogenic in nature, sativa or indica...it doesn't make a difference for some.

Very true! When I stopped using Marijuana after nonstop use for 8 years, I guess the anxiolytic effects were really efficient; as after I stopped using pot for awhile I got anxiety. Then once I started smoking (no matter what amount) I get no anxiety (as a lot of people get paranoia from high doses)
 
First time posting in this thread in a while, I succesfully tapered the cannabinoids and have maybe .3 - .4 grams left, once I have slowly slowly smoked that it is gone for good. Unfortnatley a vendor is sending me 20 grams for free so I will hopefully get rid of that asap. The blend is shit though and makes you feel horrible so I wouldn't even smoke it if I was dying, seriously its really really bad. It's so weird, it has AM-2201+2233, anyone have any specific info on 2233?

Anxiety and all the WD symptoms are close to gone but I think I might experience them for a couple days maybe when I go cold turkey but hopefully not, the WD's were nothing compared to heroin/meth/crack/benzo's(not that I know from first hand exp) but they were pretty bad all the same, sometimes unbareable. Real cannabis (sometimes when you feel like it) and benzo's / opiates help. I also strongly suggest tapering if you don't mind drawing it out, cold turkey would be similair to coming off of a 'hard drug' from my experience.

Goodluck to anyone trying to cut this out or trying synths, they are good but only at the start. Trust me, I dont even enjoy the high at all anymore its weird and rubbish, it doesn't leave you satisfied it leaves you wanting more. I am glad im basically A-OK now although I still have stomach / bowel problems, occasional anxiety especially when smoking cannabis, strange throat / burp problems, occasional increased heart rate. Hopefully these will stop once I am off it completely but its a worry in the back of my mind. Have to say couldn't have done it without my fiancee who was extra nice to me and gaused my usage for me and was cool about it, even though it was ridiculous to be addicted to synthetic cannabinoids. I am still waiting to hear back from my ex-drug counceller about providing first hand exp and info to harm reduction agencies in my local area and maybe the whole of the UK. No one has any info on it, and that just isn't right for something so deadly if used un-responisibly. Anyway, thanks a lot to this thread for letting me just discuss it and shit as well, I feel much better now. Cant wait to learn more things, try harder to get a job and hopefully sort some shit out.
 
well,after weeks of using this synthetic crap, i FINALLY got some real deal kush..and i'm stoked..i have to say that my experience with spice has been just that,an"experience"and not a very good one at that....this shit is just so poisonous and should have been tested and researched much more thoroughly before being put on the shelves for use....anyone considering using this substance should just go back to real weed like i did,unless you want months of crappy highs,anxiety,depersonalization,and depression..
 
on a side note i'm one f the many who got "suckered"into actually thinking spice would be a replacement for the real thing...boy did i learn the hard way!
 
If it's not water soluble it won't diffuse through the mucous membranes and it's a total waste.
So what about the water-soluble ones? Like... anyone try it with JWH-200?

I remember reading a couple different things about how certain non-water (and partially water) soluble substances can be used intranasally/sublingually. otherwise how would sublingual ativan/other benzos work? isn't it all about lipid solubility? if so is there any info on jwh-018 lipid solubility?
also wouldn't an alcohol or glycerine or oil/fat solution help bioavailability, like the cannabis tinctures do?
It's not JUST lipid solubility... I've read that pH and molecular size both play major roles in the efficacy of various RoA's. But yes a solution of oil/fat or glycerin will increase bioavailability of lipid-soluble compounds. Suspending that solution should further increase absorption. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the benefits of a solution in alcohol. When the alcohol mixes with your stomach fluids the compounds should precipitate out and be no different than if they had been consumed plain.
 
for a substance to pass mucous membranes it needs a certain partition coefficient between water and octanol. this menas the right ratio of water/lipid solubility. also, molecular size plays a role. aside from that, not many factors seem to influence how easily a substance passes membranes. i think the logP(o/w) needs to be around 0-4 but im not sure, i could check. same goes for molecular size, im sure some people here will know better than i do. same criteria for bbb penetration, just a tad stricter (lower tolerated logP range and lower mol size).

It's not JUST lipid solubility... I've read that pH and molecular size both play major roles in the efficacy of various RoA's. But yes a solution of oil/fat or glycerin will increase bioavailability of lipid-soluble compounds. Suspending that solution should further increase absorption. On the other hand, I am skeptical of the benefits of a solution in alcohol. When the alcohol mixes with your stomach fluids the compounds should precipitate out and be no different than if they had been consumed plain.
substances dont have a ph. they have a pks, which is the ph value at which half of the substance will be in its unionized state and half of it will be (de-/)protonated. by ionizing the compound, it will be easier soluble in polar solvents like water. this means if a substance is present in its ionized form, itll have a lower logP which will in- or decrease absorption. since our stomach has a very low ph, most substances will get protonated there. even if only part of the substance does or does not get ionized, then this part or the other part will still get absorbed, while the remaining part will again go into equilibrium so more substance can get absorbed.

not sure if this is all 100% correct.

regarding the alcohol: ill be damned if shit doesnt hit me faster when dissolved in some liquor lol.
 
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So it's official then, new jersey is run by stupid people (why am I not surprised). Cannabinoids are important for cancer research and a host of other reasons, only utter morons think cannabinoids should ever be illegal.

But, it's one thing to make specific cannabinoid drugs illegal, but to effectively try to outlaw any drugs that interact with the receptor system is truly and utterly stupid. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when Rand Paul and others helped shoot this type of legislation down federally. But the idiots apparently have no one to check them in New Jersey. It's a shame.
well i for one think they should be controlled. its usually the hedonistic side of a user thats screaming for more laid back laws and legalization. whats happening right now, cannabinoids being sold through the net by so called vendors, is just wrong and a major harm to public health. you should be able to receive these substances somehow without running risk of getting a fine for it, but it should most definitely not be as easy as it is now. few people actually manage to increase their overall quality of life with drugs, eventhough that sure does sound attractive in theory. actually, as long as these substances havent been thoroughly researched in humans, they should be unavailable altogether. the fact that getting high off em feels right to you, doesnt mean that you arent ruining your health in some unexpected way and thereby causing high costs for society and a lot of griefing for your close ones. noone really knows yet.
 
^ True, but unknown does not always have to be bad... for all we know these cannabinoid agonists could be anticarcinogenic, neuroprotective, and even neurogenerative! No sense in assuming the worst... then nothing gets discovered! I try to be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best and always stay wary of changes in mental/physical state.

regarding the alcohol: ill be damned if shit doesnt hit me faster when dissolved in some liquor lol.
Haha yeah I thought so too... but have you ever poured that tincture into water though? The compounds precipitate out immediately. Maybe it's just acting as a carrier to get it down into the stomach? or maybe the psychoactive effects are being amplified by the booze?

EDIT: Ah yes, you're right, I did mean pKs rather than pH. Thanks for clarifying! :)
 
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This has been the best info I have read in years, I have seen myself in almost all the posts, So much advise it wonderful....it's true Knowledge is power.
 
"Black Mamba Ultra" AM-2201 Spice Experience (It's Bad)

I bought 3g of Spice named "Black Mamba Ultra" blueberry flavour at a head shop in Camden (I think it's okay to say "I", Spice is legal where I live [United Kingdom]). Did some Googling before taking it, though there wasn't much information about this exact blend... Found it hard to come across a source talking about dosage, but I managed to find one which suggested 0.5g.

So using my Proscale I weighed out 0.5g exactly and put it into my pipe (by the way how do you measure herb dosages out, because the stuff spills out all over the surface of the scale and it's nearly impossible to pick it all off)... Lit it up and away I went. I had limited knowledge of how to inhale etc with a pipe. First intake felt harsh and I coughed hard, a mist spluttered out from my mouth, it was like when I saw someone else take cannabis for the first time. The flame went out so I just repeated the process and relit. Another intake and the same thing happened, managed to get some then coughed a load of smoke out... The effects kicked in a little bit here, but it didn't feel like much. It didn't feel like what SWIM who took cannabis felt like, though with my research I realized it was meant to replicate cannabis so I concluded I would take another hit. I must have smoked about 3/4 of it by now. I took a final hit, and this time followed advice I had heard to hold the smoke in. Breathed in from empty lungs and held it in for 5 seconds (I was trying for 30, feel free to laugh at my feeble attempt)...

It goes downhill now. As I move I notice things feel trippy, for the first few seconds I am like "woaaaaah :D", but then a couple of seconds later my head felt VERY heavy and it soon turned into "oh... fuck... shit :(!" My legs buckled and I collapsed, I managed to crawl along to the wall and prop myself up. My heart was going insane, not just fast or slow, it was convulsing. It kept stopping, then going again really quick like it was trying to make up for all the beats it missed. My grip on consciousness felt weak. I know about panic attacks having grown up with them somewhat (I can stop myself from having them from practice and experience), so I allowed myself to relax, but my heart and breathing was still steadily deteriorating so I decided I was in legitimate danger and went into full panic-attack mode again. I grabbed the phone out of my pocket. I contemplated calling 999 but instead decided to keep that as a last resort and called my friend. I had thought it was a totally safe drug like cannabis but realized at this moment that in reality it's some random-ass chemical (I had no idea what chemical was in this blend until later) doing BAD things to me. My friend picked up and I was like "hello... *fast heavy breathing*... hello... can you text me every 5 minutes, if I don't reply... *fast heavy breathing* call an ambulance". He was freaking. He was like "what did you do?! Are you dying?!" This frightened me a bit because truthfully I wasn't sure, so I told him "I don't know..." in the end he stayed on the line with me and kept talking so if something happened he could dial 999 for me. All the conditions were slowly worsening. The whole time my voice was involuntarily shaking in time with my irregular breathing. On breath intakes my pitch was rising and then lowering on out breaths, so I sounded very weird. My consciousness was also weakening, but it was kinda strange because it kept dipping then coming back up, like one second I'd get VERY heavy and tunnel-visioned as fuck, then the next I'd sort of snap out of it a bit, and it would alternate between these.

About a minute later I started getting this HORRIBLE feeling in my chest. It was weird. It was like I could feel one of the arteries/veins/something extending up towards my aesophagus (sp?), whenever it pulsated I felt pain, and in a way felt similar to a dull electric shock. However I had stopped coming close to losing consciousness and felt more grounded (still heavy headed and tunnel vision but not "dipping" as frequently). This relieved me somewhat despite the horrible heart feeling. This just about sums up the experience I had because from here on out it was just me tolerating the heart feeling but gradually coming out of the "near-death" esque feeling. I ended the call with my friend. This was about 4 days ago. I am still experiencing shortness of breath (I have to take very deep breaths all the time and shift my body because I have discomfort around the chest intermittently).

Sorry if this sounds pathetic because I know AM-2201 isn't considered a "hard drug" or anything, but I haven't ever experienced anything that felt as life-threatening as that before. I would personally recommend that nobody touches synthetic cannabis because SWIM has tried real cannabis which is much more pleasurable, and more importantly, much SAFER.

Another user with a bad experience here:
http://www.thctalk.com/cannabis-for...amba-legal-high.-the-key-to-the-gates-of-hell.

If anybody likes this stuff then cool, my guess is I did something wrong, possibly even overdosed, but personally I don't think I would ever chance touching the stuff again and this is just my experience.
 
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It's not pathetic. These synth's are pretty unknown to us all. We don't know the short-term effects, we don't know the long-term effects... pretty much all we know is that they alter your mindstate, but the question remaining after that is "at what cost?"

Check out the thread, K2 (JWH-018 ) ruined my life.. I think you'll find many, many likewise experiences and helpful information. Granted, it's a thread with about 30 pages of posts but that just means there's a whole lot that people have to say on the subject of these herbal blends and all synthetic cannabinoids (not just JWH-018 ).
 
By saying "I think its okay to say I..." you effectively give law enforcement officials probable cause to believe any of your swim posts are you. Be careful with synth cannabinoids, be careful with ALL RCs. Just because these synth cannas are now widely locally available doesn't mean they are any more or less safe than the ones hidden deep in the RC culture. I remember when jwh just hit the US shores and members of my forum, the forum i modded and posted to daily, were PMing me wondering if it was alright to post about their trips to the hospital on it. These drugs need to be respected, and more-so than cannabis. They are harmless, in the right hands. DO NOT abuse any drug, or the drug will abuse you.
 
Shit I had no idea they were still selling that shit in Camden. I've bought that 'Spice' crap from Camden before it became illegal and before I knew what I was getting myself into. I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. Having seen someone take an overdose of that stuff I wouldn't wish it on anyone as the person was overcome with sheer terror. All I can say is try and stay away from that stuff in future. If you must take synthetic cannabinoids stay away from blends and buy the individual, labelled cannabinoids online instead and use a mg scale to dose the chemical.
 
Well first off, .5 a gram of spice is a lot. When I first started smoking spice/synthetic cannabinoids a gram could last me 3 - 4 pretty stoned days. You did overdose or whatever, I have had very very very simlair experiences and I am so glad someone gets the throat feeling me and my fiancee have been raving about haha, you explained it perfectley it feels as if something weird is going on in the aesophagus area, it is horrible and such a weird feeling eh? I suggest you stay away from these synthetic cannabinoids, theres addiction and withdrawals to factor + insane horror stories about very very very very very very bad reactions to it involving permenant crippling symptoms. Also, it just doesn't feel healthy mentally or physically.

That being said, many people use them often and have no side effects. If your going to use them start slow, and keep it slow. Don't re-dose or take another draw from the pipe for about 40 mins just incase it gets too much, as youve seen overdosing is a very very bad experience. One of my worst so far and my fiancee now suffers from migranes and panic attacks since overdosing ONCE on this substance. It just doesn't react well with some people.
 
A thread was just closed about this even though I see it as a pretty big problem. People are spraying synthetic cannabinoids onto real cannabis especially really really shitty cannabis that would hardly give you a high without the chemicals. Ive seen it with my own eyes and friends have told me about it, in numerous locations. Its normally being sold to people with little knowledge of cannabis so they cannot tell the difference and just think they have stumbled upon amazing grass or by dealers that aren't looking for repeat customers and just selling some shit to random people not friends. Just thought I would mention this, watch out although most people are smart enough to tell the difference. You will be suprised at how stupid / noobish people are sometimes, I discourage this being done completely as theres definate over dose potential.
 
Am-2201 is a fucking POTENT cannabinoid. I had the raw chemical once, and used it responsibly dosing small, with no bad side effects. But one night I was dumb enough to smoke it like weed, and yeah my muscles screamed at me like they were about to rip apart, thought i was gonna die, all that bullshit. Just be careful man cause an overdose on these synth noids is 100x worse than a regular pot overdose.
 
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