Optimum Age To Start Using Steroids

[Gucks]

Alright well this is my first time on this forum, been on a few other big ones b4 and eventually i just get fed up with all the "bro-science" and bullshit so hopefully this will be better

Stats, Age: 19
Height: 6"3 (193cm)
Weight: ~182lbs (82kg), i only weigh myself about once a month so i was bang on 82kg morning weight in my boxers 2 weeks ago
BF:10-12%, again, i just keep it into check 2 make sure i dont get sloppy, i have abs but im not ripped.
Lifting: 18months (16months seriously with a good diet and 5 days a week)

I just want to know ur opinions on whats a good age to start juicing at. I've heard ages from 18 - 24 and good arguements as to why for some suggestions. im kind of inclined to think 20/21 just from my own research and talking to people. that said though, i know guys who have been on gear since they were 16 without serious side effects.

i plan on doing my first show (Junior Mr. Ireland) next october and i plan on winning it so im toying with the idea of doing a cycle next year in order to be big enough for the show. my proposed cycle would look something like this:

test prop: 50mg/ED 12 weeks
test enanthate: 250mg/2x per week 12 weeks
tren acetate: 50mg/ED 10 weeks
dianabol: 50mg/ED 4-6 weeks (probably 6 weeks)
tamoxifen: dosage as needed when i notice side effects, i can get it easily so im not worried about sides.

also, im curious about peptides and other hormones like insulin (i know its a protein but most ppl consider it a hormone), IGF-1 lr3, CJC 1295 and HGH.

I've read that with IGF-1 theres no need 4 PCT as it restores ur HPTA system to normal similarly to HCG so i may run it the last 6 weeks of my cycle with HGH and not use any clomid PCT. let me know what you think of those peptides if u have experience (and i know not to use insulin with IGF-1, ur asking 4 a diabetic coma if ur inexperienced with those compounds)

i read about CJC 1295 in this thread (which is how i found this forum) http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/376481-Peptides-(CJC-MGF-Frag-HGH-etc) and the guy makes it sound to good to be true so let me know if u've tried it.

also, alot of people say not to use tren for ur first cycle as its to potent but i dont see the point in messign around with low dose cycles, id rather just jump in the deep end and do a proper cycle.

my only other concern aswell as my age is my "genetic limit", alot of people say you should be nearing ur genetic limit before u do a cycle so ill give u a brief history of my gains first i was in hospital for 9 weeks and i was anorexic while i was in there at under 130lbs so i saw a dietition to get back to a normal weight (originally i wanted to be 160lbs, but now im pretty sure i have anti-anorexia and i'll never think im big enough ) in my first yr i gained over 50lbs. that may sound rediculous to people but its true, i was an exceptional case because i was starting from such a low point. i got to 160lbs without much problem (it only took me 3 months) and then as the gains got harder and harder i got more serious about dieting, training and bodybuilding. since about 170lbs the gains have just been painfully slow though, i gained maybe 2lbs in the last 4 months, (ill post my diet and training if ur interested). I originally thought i would get to 200lbs naturally but now that just seems so far away, nobody in my family is particularly built. i have the highest LBM of anyone in my family so im just not sure how much i can grow naturally. i realise i may never be a 300lb pro bodybuilder but im gonna do everything in my power to get there

Im open to all constructive criticism but just do me a favour, if ur going to tell me do/dont do a cycle untill im x weight or x age then GIVE ME A REASON AS TO WHY, nothing recks my head like people regurgatating what their friend of a friend said. Thanks

 

[Voxide]

i know guys who have been on gear since they were 16 without serious side effects.

Really? So you've examined their livers, were in a room with them while they were attempting to achieve an erection, have copies of all their blood screenings, and you can manage to see into the future?


If you're naive and misinformed enough to want to use Tren as a first cycle, I'm going to sit back and enjoy the show. Do whatever you want.

 

[freehugs]

Really? So you've examined their livers, were in a room with them while they were attempting to achieve an erection, have copies of all their blood screenings, and you can manage to see into the future?


If you're naive and misinformed enough to want to use Tren as a first cycle, I'm going to sit back and enjoy the show. Do whatever you want.

He has never cycled before. Don't you think there is a more constructive way of telling him what you intended?

 

[-Guido-]

You are 19. Wait until you are 21 or 22. You will seriously limit your ability to pack on muscle and you could very well still be growing.

When you are old enough to run a cycle either go with Test Prop or Test Ethanate. Running two esters is pointless, especially 50mg of Test Prop. Dianabol is an excellent kickstart but you are really pushing it considering it is your first cycle. Using Trenbolone Acetate in your first cycle is the stupidest thing one could do. Trenbolone is a harsh compound, and everyone reacts to it differently. Some people get insomnia, everyone gets night and day sweats, some get horrible anxiety, progesterone induced gyno, mood swings...

If you want to run a big cycle and go hard, run 750mg of Test Ethanate instead of 500mg a week but be sure to use 0.50mg of Anastrozle to prevent all the Testosterone from converting to estrogen and giving you gyno or bloating. Don't inject twice a week either, that is a fucking waste. All you need is one injection a week, mid day Wednesday is when I inject my weekly Test.

And using IGF-1 during your first cycle? You don't need shit like that until you have numerous cycles under your belt and you need to break through your genetic limit. You don't run HGH and shit like that for six weeks either, shit like that you need to run for solid amount of time.

You don't start stacking compounds and using advanced peptides until you have a successful cycle under your belt and you have the discipline and knowledge.

A proper first cycle is 500mg of Test Ethanate a week, 0.50mg of Anastrozle a day for the duration of the cycle, 50mg of Dianabol as a kickstart, and Clomid and Nolva for PCT. You don't need HCG. Save that shit for when you are stacking compounds and running them for lengthy periods of time. Another compound I recommend during PCT is Ostarine. I have used it before and it's an amazing compound, it hardens your muscle up, preserves it, gets rid of fat, and is about as anabolic as Anavar IMO. It's a SARM, so it doesn't shut you down or cause any sides like steroids do. Its good to run with steroids if you want, but it really shines in PCT. I got some of my friends to run it, and they won't run a PCT regime without it now.

 

[Gucks]

no need 4 the sarcasm the guys i know i've trained with and talked to and they said they haven't any permanent side effects (apart from one guy whos going bald and hes still 25). u may be right and they may have side effects in the future or now but i can only tell u what they told me. and im not 16, im going 2 be 20 soon enough and it will be months b4 i do a cycle (if i do), so do u think 20 is old enough or do u wanna give me another sarcastic answer?

and i never understood why people are against tren for a first cycle. i know its the strongest injectable u can take (apart from possibly insulin), but the side effects ive read and heard about dont seem to be any more severe then test.

forgot to mention that if i ran tren i was thinking of running equipoise aswell, ppl i know who take tren say it destroys ur cardio and the equipoise will counter-act that aswell as increasing my appetite which is only a good thing on a cycle.

 

[Gucks]

thank you, an intelligent response free from sarcasm and u against tren for a first cycle?

 

[Gucks]

thanks 4 the response man, and ye i forgot 2 say i wouldnt be running hgh for 12 weeks, thats stupid. i would run it for 24 weeks if i was to use it, and use insulin with it. (when im experienced with insulin). the igf was because ive heard awesome things about it, its not 2 expensive and aparently it fully restores ur hpta system so theres no need 4 pct, u ever used it?

6 weeks or dbol i didnt think was pushing it. usually 8 weeks max and at least 4 weeks, so 6 is in the middle. the reason i thought i would run 2 esters of test is just because prop will get working faster and kick start my gains faster along with the dbol, enanthate can take 4 weeks to get going.

im going to assume anastrozle is the same as arimidex/liquidex? thats the same dose u use for arimidex anyway, im in ireland so we have different names 4 shit over here and nolva is the same as tamoxifen which ill have on hand untill sides start to show. ill read up about ostarine because ive never heard of it and not sure if i could even get it.

and my other thread got edited for sourcing about geting powders from china for home brewing, i wasnt sourcing im just curious if u've ever brewed u own gear and is it reliable 2 buy raw powders online?

 

[Voxide]

Everything you're taking at your age will cause a negative feedback loop, especially the IGF and the GH. Lol at "against Tren for a first cycle". There are experienced users, big guys, who are against tren period. Man, if artofwar is actually dead, he'd be rolling over in his grave at your suggested cycle.

My response wasn't sarcastic. If you want to pack on as much muscle as possible just to win a little show and then feel like shit for the rest of your life, go ahead. There are conservative users who would recommend you stay clean even until age 25. If you already have your options weighed out and are willing to take the risk anyway, you're going to do it regardless. I just can't shake the feeling that you're just another Zyzz follower. A kid who thinks a big physique is the beginning and end of a great life, and not just a part of it.

If you really can't find any evidence as to why using GH and heavy amounts of gear is bad at the ripe age of 19, I don't what to tell you. Good luck.

 

[Gucks]

who r artofwar and zyzz? im only new 2 this forum. and im not going 2 juice regardless, im weighing up my options because ill be competeing against guys who r juiced and r older then me. u could say its only 1 show and its not a big deal, but i always start as i mean to go on

ive heard arguements as to why you should stay clean untill 24/25 and im kind o finclined to lean towards 21/22 like guido said. ur hpta system is more or less finished developing by that age.

i havent seen any evidence that tren is that much more detromental to your health then test, and gh is one of the safest compounds u can use.

thanks 4 the reply ill make up my mind in the next few months, it will be next spring b4 i consider doing a cycle anyway. i still have room to grow, id like to think i can hit a lean 190lbs naturally.

 

[Voxide]

who r artofwar and zyzz? im only new 2 this forum. and im not going 2 juice regardless, im weighing up my options because ill be competeing against guys who r juiced and r older then me. u could say its only 1 show and its not a big deal, but i always start as i mean to go on

ive heard arguements as to why you should stay clean untill 24/25 and im kind o finclined to lean towards 21/22 like guido said. ur hpta system is more or less finished developing by that age.

i havent seen any evidence that tren is that much more detromental to your health then test, and gh is one of the safest compounds u can use.

thanks 4 the reply ill make up my mind in the next few months, it will be next spring b4 i consider doing a cycle anyway. i still have room to grow, id like to think i can hit a lean 190lbs naturally.

Guido will explain to you who Zyzz is %)

artofwar is a powerlifter on this board who hasn't posted in a while. You could call him one of the more knowledgeable members of this forum. Also, everyone's HPTA develops at a different rate, because everyone completes puberty at a different rate. "More or less" is exactly where mistakes get made. There is no margin for error with steroids, unless you don't care about your sex drive and the other components of your endocrine system. The health risks of running tren vs. straight testosterone are clear as day. For one, there is no such thing as human grade tren. This should be enough of an explanation. Comparing the side effects of both drugs says it all.

GH is a safe compound? Maybe in life extension/anti-aging doses. If you want to see anything from GH you're going to be running it at least 8iu's daily for BB'ing purposes. 24 weeks of GH still isn't enough. Guys that I know personally who compete are on it year round, and it's not cheap. There are psycho's who use 16-20iu's, and organ growth is rampant at those doses.

Doing this competition is futile. The guys competing in it are going to be running more gear than you are, and they never had any history of anorexia. 1 bad cycle is enough to fuck you up for life. What's going to happen when you get geared up and you lose? I really don't mean to sound like a dick, but you will not win. It's the bodybuilding curse. You can say you do it for yourself and all that, but in the end there is always someone bigger, for the sole reason that they are on more shit. This is what they live for, and consequently, it's what they will die for.

You need to think about this. You're 19 years old. Don't do anything you will soon regret. And as far as your natural genetic limit, you're nowhere close.

 

[Gucks]

Guido will explain to you who Zyzz is %)

artofwar is a powerlifter on this board who hasn't posted in a while. You could call him one of the more knowledgeable members of this forum. Also, everyone's HPTA develops at a different rate, because everyone completes puberty at a different rate. "More or less" is exactly where mistakes get made. There is no margin for error with steroids, unless you don't care about your sex drive and the other components of your endocrine system. The health risks of running tren vs. straight testosterone are clear as day. For one, there is no such thing as human grade tren. This should be enough of an explanation. Comparing the side effects of both drugs says it all.

GH is a safe compound? Maybe in life extension/anti-aging doses. If you want to see anything from GH you're going to be running it at least 8iu's daily for BB'ing purposes. 24 weeks of GH still isn't enough. Guys that I know personally who compete are on it year round, and it's not cheap. There are psycho's who use 16-20iu's, and organ growth is rampant at those doses.

Doing this competition is futile. The guys competing in it are going to be running more gear than you are, and they never had any history of anorexia. 1 bad cycle is enough to fuck you up for life. What's going to happen when you get geared up and you lose? I really don't mean to sound like a dick, but you will not win. It's the bodybuilding curse. You can say you do it for yourself and all that, but in the end there is always someone bigger, for the sole reason that they are on more shit. This is what they live for, and consequently, it's what they will die for.

You need to think about this. You're 19 years old. Don't do anything you will soon regret. And as far as your natural genetic limit, you're nowhere close.

ok, thanks man. and 8iu's of gh..? ive heard of pros using 20 ius and ending up with crazy organ and bone growth so they have foreheads like a neandrathol but i also know guys who used it as low as 2iu's.

and im in ireland, the standard of bodybuilding isnt that high i would need 2 be the weight i am now on stage i reckon (180lbs-ish) so i would need to gain about 20lbs of lbm which would be doable on a cycle.

i have nothing set in concrete anyway. ill make up my mind next yr, thanks again

 

[Voxide]

ok, thanks man. and 8iu's of gh..? ive heard of pros using 20 ius and ending up with crazy organ and bone growth so they have foreheads like a neandrathol but i also know guys who used it as low as 2iu's.

and im in ireland, the standard of bodybuilding isnt that high i would need 2 be the weight i am now on stage i reckon (180lbs-ish) so i would need to gain about 20lbs of lbm which would be doable on a cycle.

i have nothing set in concrete anyway. ill make up my mind next yr, thanks again

2iu's is the low-end for fat loss/healing purposes. 8iu's is the minimum for a bulker, I'm combination with gear of course. The risks of diabetes and acromegaly are very real and HGH should be approached with extreme caution for anabolic purposes. Much more caution than AAS in my opinion.

No problem.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If you're wondering where you stand testosterone level wise, get some blood work done and have your hormone levels checked out.

If you have high or even normal levels, you don't want to go on exogenous testosterone/steroids.

There are some steroid drugs that wouldn't be centrally active (such as SARM's in development for proactive treatment against prostate enlargement/cancer which only have effects on the prostate and not the brain); however I think the best thing you can do at your age is ask some of these guys for some diet/exercise tips and go from there.

Using steroids at your age is normally counterproductive.

 

[Gucks]

my diet adn training is pretty solid (at least it is from my view anyway ), ive had a personal trainer and been on other forums and spoken to ALOT of experienced guys about my diet and training so i can post it if u like.

how exactly do i go about chekcing my hormone and test levels? do i just go 2 my gp and say im thinking about using steroids and can i get blood work done? im not sure he would go for that and ive had blood work done b4, would they check hormone and test levels as standard? if so i can get the results printed out from my gp from about a yr ago when i got bloods done.

the thing about people saying steroids are counter-productive at under 21 i dont get. im not saying ur wrong, just debating i mean, as far as im aware test levels peak at about 150mg/week during puberty and slowly decrease to 50-70mg/week in your early 20's and then they decreases further throughout ur 30's and 40's untill they are virtually non existent by 50. nobdy ever uses less then 250mg of test per week, assuming i may be around 100-150mg/week of test i would still have AT LEAST double that amount of test on a cycle (i know u have to take into account the ester length which determens how much test ur ACTUALLY geting). i dont think theres ever actually been any proof that ur test levels dont fully restore to natural levels after a cycle (correct me if im wrong on that), people just assume it never returns to the same levels. but even if they dont return to natural levels its not like im never going to cycle again? i would probably be doing 2 cycles a yr for at least as long as i compete as a bodybuilder. you see where im coming from? im just thinking out loud, not disagreeing with u

what exactly is a sarm aswell..? ive never been clear on it. ill google it now while im online but give me an example of a steroid that is a sarm and how it differs from others.

thanks

 

[Captain.Heroin]

my diet adn training is pretty solid (at least it is from my view anyway ), ive had a personal trainer and been on other forums and spoken to ALOT of experienced guys about my diet and training so i can post it if u like.

how exactly do i go about chekcing my hormone and test levels? do i just go 2 my gp and say im thinking about using steroids and can i get blood work done? im not sure he would go for that and ive had blood work done b4, would they check hormone and test levels as standard? if so i can get the results printed out from my gp from about a yr ago when i got bloods done.

Think about it; why wouldn't a doctor let you examine your hormone levels? If a woman goes to her doctor asking to have her estrogen levels checked, they're not going to say no.

the thing about people saying steroids are counter-productive at under 21 i dont get. im not saying ur wrong, just debating i mean, as far as im aware test levels peak at about 150mg/week during puberty and slowly decrease to 50-70mg/week in your early 20's and then they decreases further throughout ur 30's and 40's untill they are virtually non existent by 50. nobdy ever uses less then 250mg of test per week, assuming i may be around 100-150mg/week of test i would still have AT LEAST double that amount of test on a cycle (i know u have to take into account the ester length which determens how much test ur ACTUALLY geting). i dont think theres ever actually been any proof that ur test levels dont fully restore to natural levels after a cycle (correct me if im wrong on that), people just assume it never returns to the same levels. but even if they dont return to natural levels its not like im never going to cycle again? i would probably be doing 2 cycles a yr for at least as long as i compete as a bodybuilder. you see where im coming from? im just thinking out loud, not disagreeing with u

what exactly is a sarm aswell..? ive never been clear on it. ill google it now while im online but give me an example of a steroid that is a sarm and how it differs from others.

thanks

Oh I just disagree with that idea though; by 50's you shouldn't have a virtually non-existent testosterone level. Men don't go through menopause at the same degree/younger age that women do. It's more of a slow, general, steady decline.

I'd just focus on working with what you have naturally for a while. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Gucks]

ok, well their test levels are certainly pretty low and thanks 4 the advice. i have alot more growing to do naturally b4 i cycle anyway!

 

[-Guido-]

You need a solid foundation before you start using steroids otherwise you are going to look like shit in a competition. It's a fact. You also have to realize the only way your going to become a pro is if you start running gear all year along with HGH and insulin. Genetics are not a factor in bodybuilding, they play a role, but int he end it all comes down to who is running the most optimum gear in the highest amounts for their body. It's shame, because I personally think insulin and HGH has ruined bodybuilding. It's not about aesthetics anymore really, it's about who the biggest freak is.

You want to know who Zyzz is? Zyzz was an 18 year old kid who was only 130lbs. He decided to work out but his diet and routine sucked so much he became bitter and impatient. He decided to start running gear. After a cycle or two he looked great. The only problem was as soon as he got off the gear, he world start losing mass and that cut look so he opted to start being on gear all the time at unsafe dosages mind you along with T3 and Clenbuterol. It wasn't enough, he had veeners put in, a nosejob, and jaw work done because he was so insecure. After he became a self proclaimed God, he said he looked the way he did because of genetics.

One day he went to Thailand and died in the sauna of a Bangcok whorehouse with lots of Tren, Test, Clen, t3, and drugs in his system. He was a vain piece of shit with no respect for hormones and chemicals and it is why he died.

His fan base happens to be some of the most pathetic fucking pieces of shit to ever come into existence. They live their life through Zyzz because they don't love themselves and they try to emulate him. They are like fucking parrots and will jump to defend Zyzz any chance they get.

If I ever had the money I would go to Australia and proceed to shit and piss on Zyzz's grave, I would put it on Youtube. I guarantee in a few hours I would have almost a million views and all of Zyzz's little wannabe tough guy followers and even his faggot group known as "The Aesthetic Crew", just a group of fucking guys on gear who think they have amazing genetics even though they would be white trash 130lb drug addicts without steroids, would send me death threats and I would fucking laugh. I would laugh and tell them to come at me.

 

[-Guido-]

i havent seen any evidence that tren is that much more detromental to your health then test, and gh is one of the safest compounds u can use.

Tren is one of the harshest steroids you can use. It puts stress on you physically, mentally, and emotionally. You do not use Tren until you are experienced. Tren is a beast. It can turn the most patient man into short tempered raging lunatic and can have the most hard ass guy crying over a pet adoption commercial. Tren will cause you to lose your breath walking up steps, Tren will have you sweating in 34 degree Fahrenheit weather, it will have you up all night, it will make you paranoid, and when you end up nicking a vein, which you will eventually, it will give you a cough like no other, a burning in your chest, and heart rate like you did a gram of coke to the face for 8 minutes.

You don't treat Tren like it's just Tren. You treat Tren with respect and you only use it if you are ready and disciplined enough to deal with the side effects and not everyone is.

HGH is far from being one of the safest compounds, especially at bodybuilder does. It cause your organs to grow in size along with abnormal bone and tissue growth. Have you seen Jay Cutler's head as the years have gone by and have you noticed how bodybuilders since HGH came into the scene have this turtle shell like abdomen? There really haven't been any long term studies done on HGH. That is why Testosterone is one of the safest compounds to use, it has been studied extensively since the 1930's and everything is known about it.

 

[e92]

gudio: you really have no life.

 

[-Guido-]

gudio: you really have no life.

You're just mad that I'm right lol. U mad? Yeah, u mad.

How is your cycle going by the way? I may not agree with you running a cycle at your age but that won't change the fact that I will give out advice and help any way I can. Don't hesitate to ask questions.