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Opioids adddicted for years, first time quitting, need a taper schedule and help (PLEASE!)

I agree, stay as far away from methadone as you can-it has a much longer lasting action &, like buprenorphine, is much stickier & more difficult to come off. I recommend finding out about Iboga/Ibogaine.
Good luck with your taper, that last little step down can be the hardest, so go easy on yourself!
 
I would not recommend a methadone clinic to the OP because his habit was not that serious or out of control it sounds like. I would only recommend methadone or suboxone/subutex treatment to people who are IV users or have been using for around years or more. Because if someone like the OP gets started taking something like methadone long-term, IMO that will be way worse of a habit and way harder to kick.

Maybe if you could get your hands on a few subs, taper off with those. I wouldn't get a script though, like I said, you will regret it because it will be a lot harder to kick in the end for someone who has just been popping oxy.
 
I would not recommend a methadone clinic to the OP because his habit was not that serious or out of control it sounds like. I would only recommend methadone or suboxone/subutex treatment to people who are IV users or have been using for around years or more. Because if someone like the OP gets started taking something like methadone long-term, IMO that will be way worse of a habit and way harder to kick.

Maybe if you could get your hands on a few subs, taper off with those. I wouldn't get a script though, like I said, you will regret it because it will be a lot harder to kick in the end for someone who has just been popping oxy.

I've always seen Suboxone as Methadone for the pill popper... and Methadone as the Suboxone for the IV user (pills or heroin, doesn't matter). Honestly, pill popping (especially Oxy) can get just as serious and the withdrawals can be pretty fuckin gnarly. Hell, I was only addicted to Norco, and I couldn't even last through the withdrawals for more than two and a half days. Suboxone, in my opinion, is a life saver for the pill popper lol.

But yeah, it is harder to kick. The good thing about it though is that it buys you some time to get your life together and saves you money in the long run... and most importantly, it gives you time to prepare for the withdrawals... whereas pills, the withdrawals just blindside you. I agree with the first part though.. OP should definitely avoid the methadone... that's for sure..
 
Hi darkflame,

Somewhere on this site is an outline for a taper that involves reducing your intake by one-third every fourth day (example: three days on 240 minus a third (=80) so three days at 160 minus a third (=53) so three days on 107) etc. I have done this many times and had good results (I totally get the high-functioning/can't miss work thing). It *is* possible to design a taper, given enough foresight before your supply is gone, that will keep you virtually symptom-free; you just have to do your research. That you are thinking of this while you have enough to do a taper is very very smart and you just might get out of this with a "slap on the wrist" so to speak. Have hope. If you can do 60 mg of roxi a day and stay well, then following the taper would look like this: days 1-3 of taper, 40 mgs per day. days 4-6, 26.66 etc, so you'd round up to 27. days 7-9, 18 mgs. Obv you need a pill cutter or razor blade, and you may need to dissolve your doses into liquid in order for this to work at smaller doses so you would need to do your research about that too. you do need to be pretty precise to avoid discomfort, and you always round up if you have some decimal that is impossible to measure. You may not feel great, but you can avoid looking like hell at work this way.

My solution *last* time I got clean was to switch to tramadol and taper off that using the above method. The only problem with a taper from DOC for me is that the taper goes out the window when I am in charge of the pills/substance, and I have one of those lives where nobody knows this about me (I have a couple of advanced degrees, kids in school, major financial/life responsibilities, plus day job is one of those where this cannot get out or it's over), and anybody who could/would help is in another state and I can't go away or take time off except for a week twice a year. I can't get subs or anything else because I have no friends or contacts for that kind of thing where I live and there is no way i can go through my work insurance. I can get trams online w/o a prescription and they have saved my rear end many times. Without trams, the taper is tough for me b/c anything would have me talking myself out of staying on the taper - but if your gf is on board that is ideal. I was on pod tea the last two times so it's hard to measure/say how much I was taking every day, but I was able to switch to tramadol and avoid the worst of WD without having to go above the seizure-warning-threshold on tram dosage. I only had minor symptoms, the worst for about two days when all i had in my system for the first time was trams, and they did not keep me from going to work.

This worked b/c trams do nothing for me except keep me functional - so there was no point in talking myself into taking more because the reward is not getting high, it's just a seizure. This does not work for everybody - depends on your reaction to trams (which you could test ahead of time by taking them instead of a roxi dose. Do some research on dosage - while 100 mgs tram may not do the trick, it may nevertheless make you feel awful and so may not be an option for you. If they treat you bad, and/or if the dose you need to shut those receptors up is too high for you to function - trams knock some people down -- at least you have the night to recover).

But the "one-third every fourth day" method worked really really well for me, more than once. It does depend on half life etc, and I'm not a med doc etc, but the WDs were nearly non-existent. I started a vitamin regimen at the same time I started the taper and that helped my energy levels, and I had a few xanax on hand for when i really needed to sleep, and immodium etc for the very few rough spots i had switching over and then tapering off. Those lists of things to have on hand when you are in WD are everywhere on this site, easy to find with a search.

My ex said the trams put him into precipitated WD when he was taking lortab, so it really does depend on your brain. I have used them to get off lortab before and the post-WD black-hole-of-apathy doesn't seem quite as bad on trams. I was really surprised the tram/taper method worked getting off pods given the long half life of pp tea, but it did. In fact, it has worked so well that I have gotten re-addicted a bunch of times because "getting off whatever wasn't so bad after all" and I knew I could do it again etc. (It has been worse each time and the trams seem a little less effective each time -- and may not be available w/o a prescription forever -- so I dno't encourage my line of thinking. In fact the reason I'm typing this at 4 am is because I woke up in WD much earlier than I should have, I took tramadol at 2:30, and while my nose has stopped leaking buckets, I have stopped sneezing and I'm not shivering or sweating profusely anymore, and I have stayed out of the bathroom for an hour now, nevertheless there is no way in hell can I sit still, never mind sleep, and i need to be up in three hours so no way can i take xanax. I am a huge baby when it comes to WD - it just doesn't get seem to get easier no matter how many times I do it, mostly because I live in constant fear of the giant stretch of apathy or depression that the chills and snot are a harbinger of and my resolve crumbles. So I am a BIG fan of tapering.)

I wish you major luck and am glad you are thinking long term with this. If you have got help and a proper taper schedule, you might not need the clonidine or methadone. I strongly recommend that taper if you need to stay functional, and hope your gf can help with the dosing. I have personally never had a once-a-day pill habit (I am pretty lousy on the self-control and I have found opiates to make me more productive in a demanding job) but logic would dictate that the taper method would work in your case too - ignore all the stuff about what time of day etc and just keep your normal dosing schedule and adjust your dose down one-third every four days. That you still do have a once-a-day habit and that your habit hasn't grown exponentially over the years bodes well for this to work for you. that much better if you have an ally in your gf and things in your life to look forward to. It's a lot harder to get clean when everything else is already in flames and your support system is non-existent b/c your friends are sick of your crap :) Good luck!
 
Excuse my ignorance but what is SWIM an achronym for?

And all the best to the OP. I'm reducing off 2.4mg of suboxone and I'm finding the hardest part is that I still use gear once a week. So I can't reduce until I learnt how to spend my Saturday straight. That one damn day a week when I'm not working...self control seems to evaporate. How have any of you managed to build self control? It's not physical addiction that's the issue but psychological that's the killer.
 
SWIM means Someone Who Isn't Me. The reason for using it is unknown as if they check your posts, and search your house and test you for drugs you aren't getting away with the SWIM anyways.
 
I think the idea of go as long as you can to see what your in for is a great idea. If you cant get through day 1 you will know that 2-5 are stronger symtoms so it will be more difficult. keep in mind Suboxone is primarily used as maintenence medication. If you stop your meds and find you absolutley cannot get off, then Sub is a way to go about your day nomally but it will have withdrawl over the long term use so you will be delaying the inevitable. i found that i needed sub until i was mentally ready to feel crappy. it took a long time to get mentally ready so Sub had a benefit to me. However, withdrawl was long and aggravating so that is the trade off. i believe a low dose of sub over a week spaced further and further apart is the way to go. I think that when one becomes mentally ready to stop, that carries them a couple of days, then its a grind for a week and that the trick. If i had to do it allover again, i would have hunkered down on my death bed for a week and been done. I feel Sub is improperly prescribed but i am not a doctor so what do i know. For the current Sub users, i went from 24mg to 1.5 mg and jumped. it was difficult going from 3-4 mg to 1.5. i just woke up one day and said im done. it was a three week grind from there. H on earth for the first week or so. then just needling and energyless for the next 2 weeks. be happy to give details if asked. I litetrally counted hours as a guide to feel better and its a lot of them. I rambling becasue im currently on day 5 of the El crapo fever so i a bit scattered. Just remember, its withdrawl, not death so it is bad but it goes away.
 
update...

Ok, so just to update all of you. I'm basically down to 34 pills and have nothing to show for it. Sucks! My GF is finding out on tuesday. I am going to take a xanax soon one night (skip a dose for the first time in years) and see how I wake up. Im going to take a couple to work in case I start to withdrawal, but im going to go for the approach of how shitty I feel. If I cut my dose by 1/3rd, I should still be sick and not functional I'm assuming. Every 4 days seems like a good schedule. Wish me the best, I'll prob be frequenting this thread A LOT more now.
 
Good luck to you. Try reducing like 10%/day, instead of whole or half pills. It'll be easier for you since youre having trouble starting your taper. If you have a scale, grind the pill up, weigh and put in your drink so you can be exact. You can get one that goes to the .01g for 15-20 bucks on the chinese electronic sites.
Also, if you run out before your taper is low enough, goto a doctor complaining of pain. Try and get him to give tramadol. It's not scheduled so most docs will script it. Just say you had a problem with drugs in the past, and want to stay away from narcotics. That always works for me. Then start at about 50-100mg/day of that and work your way down 10%/day until you get to about 10mg/day. If you cant get a script, then head to the dollar store and pick up a few boxes of loperamide.
Don't take the methadones, they will just make things harder for you. And very careful with the xanex. Don't take on consecutive days. Infact, try and pick up some Ambien. over the counter and I think it does a better job; and it's easier to wake in the morning too. Don't forget your B vitamins in the morning and stay as hydrated as possible too.

edit: don't try to just skip a dose, it will likely discourage your desire to taper and then you'll want to make up for the missing dose by taking more next dose
 
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