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Opioids adddicted for years, first time quitting, need a taper schedule and help (PLEASE!)

D

DarkFlame

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
71
SWIM has been taking oxycodone for years. A friend of mine has severe back pain and they're basically free and unlimited for SWIM. He recently got locked up, so SWIM has no connect (nor does he want a new one).

SWIMs been taking anywhere from 2-4 roxi 30s a day for the past 3 years. Never snorted anything in SWIM's entire life. This has been orally, just once a day (when SWIM gets home from work). SWIM is a functional addict. Works for a top 10 U.S. bank, just received a promotion. Am finishing up a masters degree at a top tier university and am close to making six figures and still well under the age of 30.

SWIM has about 130 roxies left and he knows he needs to taper to avoid the inevitable. He is finally going to tell his girlfriend whats up and she will make sure to only give him the taper amount per day no matter how much he yells and screams. She will also hide them so he won't know where they are. SWIM has never been "dopesick", but he has also never gone more than 48 hours without taking roxies. Never done any other drug like meth, coke or street heroin. SWIMs been very good about not ever taking more than 3-4 per day and quite frankly sometimes he doesn't ever get a buzz but he refuses to take more or else he'll end up taking double what he takes two months down the road trying to catch a buzz.

I smoke marijuana daily as well. But just a hit or two before I go to sleep.

SWIM will also have the following at his disposal at an undisclosed location - about 30 10mg methadones, 15 1mg xanaxs and maybe some sort of clonodine if I can figure out how to get a doc to prescribe it to me without flagging me.

Basically, his job is part time and he will have some of the weekdays off. But he wants to do whatever is possible to not take off work, and he'd rather not look like a mess in there either.

I'd like to know what you guys recommend for SWIM with the resources he has available, specifically how he should taper and involve the other drugs swim has at his disposal. Any other tips of what SWIM will expect? The beauty of this SWIM no longer know anyone that has any sort of access to this stuff so swim won't be able to relapse simply because it will be impossible. I'd like to start asap and use the LEAST of the roxies possible, but not at the expense of suffering either. Out of everything available to him, he will only be able to replenish the marijuana from now on.

THANKS TO EVERYONE for all of their help. I used the search engine, read suggestions - but most ppl either IV or snort - this is strictly oral and much smaller amounts than SWIM used to seeing on their forums. This help will save my life. AGAIN THANKS for all your input.
 
habboz said:
Nice brag you threw in there.. Just pointing that out
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He was pointing out that he is a professional, a mature adult, has an honest problem and needs help. It's pretty clear that he doesn't want to hurt his meaningful career.

How about contributing to the topic instead of trolling? :)


Anyway, on topic, it sounds like you still have your head screwed on straight, which is a good sign. You're making the right choices and seems like you know what you have to do. If your girlfriend really loves you and cares about you and respects you, she will understand and will help you. Also, knowing that you have her help and support will make the process a ton easier. Just stick with your plan, don't deviate from it, and I'm willing to bet you don't even finish off all those roxies you have left. :)

Best of luck to you, and BL is here for your support. Don't let anyone take the wind out of your sails.
 
Am finishing up a masters degree
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I'd like to start asap and use the LEAST of the roxies possible, but not at the expense of suffering either.
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This help will save my life. AGAIN THANKS for all your input.
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My SWIM thinks your SWIM needs to proof read and edit. ;)

You need to drop the SWIM crap and you will probably get some good answers. Also, SWIM is against the rules here!

I've been on pain meds since 1982. I'm about to the SWIM point now that it would be better to just live with 100% of the pain and get off them. I also use a TENS unit. Do you know if your SWIM has tried one for his back pain?

Let your SWIM know that I wish him all of the best SWIMMING up the shit stream and beating it!!!

Leaping Gnome
 
lol, ill spare the bash for the SWIM thing since you got enough from everyone else all ready. i wouldnt even bother with the methadone, put that out of your head. your two best friends will be clonidine and the xanax. id start reducing your dose by a half a pill every few days, since you have a bunch of 30's it shouldnt be a problem. only start taking the clonidine and xanax when you feel like you need it. since you have never been sick before, a good way to tell is your BP and you pupil size. its called the himmelsmot test i think. anyways, the reason i say dont take the pills till you feel shitty is bc the combo could knock ur ass out and make you look kinda fuckedup. i would use the clonidine more than the xanax, its not addictive plus it just over all works better for WD than xanax.

there is a ton of great info on here, have a look around.
 
currently detoxing and clonidine is needed if you want to sleep at all. valium and clonidine are gonna be the best bet. maybe just take as low as you can while still feeling managable and keep lowering it. dont prolong it though. i feel its better to go cold turkey than to taper because so mcuh can go wrong tapering.
 
loperamide is a good one to use. i got off a several year pod/methadone/you-name-it habit.

street drugs > buprenoorphine > tramadol + loperamide > loperamide (or tramadol, not both)

currently over 1 month since suboxone use, my skin still feels like it isnt all there yet... one day at a time
 
DarkFlame said:
SWIM has been taking oxycodone for years. A friend of mine has severe back pain and they're basically free and unlimited for SWIM. He recently got locked up, so SWIM has no connect (nor does he want a new one).

SWIMs been taking anywhere from 2-4 roxi 30s a day for the past 3 years. Never snorted anything in SWIM's entire life. This has been orally, just once a day (when SWIM gets home from work). SWIM is a functional addict. Works for a top 10 U.S. bank, just received a promotion. Am finishing up a masters degree at a top tier university and am close to making six figures and still well under the age of 30.

SWIM has about 130 roxies left and he knows he needs to taper to avoid the inevitable. He is finally going to tell his girlfriend whats up and she will make sure to only give him the taper amount per day no matter how much he yells and screams. She will also hide them so he won't know where they are. SWIM has never been "dopesick", but he has also never gone more than 48 hours without taking roxies. Never done any other drug like meth, coke or street heroin. SWIMs been very good about not ever taking more than 3-4 per day and quite frankly sometimes he doesn't ever get a buzz but he refuses to take more or else he'll end up taking double what he takes two months down the road trying to catch a buzz.

I smoke marijuana daily as well. But just a hit or two before I go to sleep.

SWIM will also have the following at his disposal at an undisclosed location - about 30 10mg methadones, 15 1mg xanaxs and maybe some sort of clonodine if I can figure out how to get a doc to prescribe it to me without flagging me.

Basically, his job is part time and he will have some of the weekdays off. But he wants to do whatever is possible to not take off work, and he'd rather not look like a mess in there either.

I'd like to know what you guys recommend for SWIM with the resources he has available, specifically how he should taper and involve the other drugs swim has at his disposal. Any other tips of what SWIM will expect?The beauty of this SWIM no longer know anyone that has any sort of access to this stuff so swim won't be able to relapse simply because it will be impossible. I'd like to start asap and use the LEAST of the roxies possible, but not at the expense of suffering either. Out of everything available to him, he will only be able to replenish the marijuana from now on.

THANKS TO EVERYONE for all of their help. I used the search engine, read suggestions - but most ppl either IV or snort - this is strictly oral and much smaller amounts than SWIM used to seeing on their forums. This help will save my life. AGAIN THANKS for all your input.
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First of all, just as a warning, make sure you are ABSOLUTELY ready to quit before you hand your meds over to your girlfriend. Opiate withdrawals are hell and your brain will constantly talk you into taking more, or devise plans to get more, or whatever... basically, all rationality goes out the window. It sounds like you have quite a lot of self control and you say you've never been dopesick though, so it's possible you will have little to minimal withdrawals.

However, in the spirt of not taking any chances, you should definitely still taper as much as you can. I'm not a medical doctor by any means, but this is what my addiction specialist is having me do (I was a pill popper too), so I'll pass it along since it works well. With what you have, I'd say for the first two weeks, cut down your daily dosage to 2 1/2 mg. It will be slightly uncomfortable, and that's when the Xanax comes in. However, only take it AS NEEDED. And I mean if the anxiety and sleeplessness (if there is any at this point) is too much to bear. Xanax is just as, if not more, addictive than opiates, and the withdrawals are deadly. Be careful with that shit. Since you want to use as little roxies as possible, cut down by half each week. You should have around 50 roxies left by the end of this... if that's not enough for you, you can jump down by 1 mg per week instead of a half, just keep in mind it will be harder. And you say you don't want to go into work a mess while you're doing this so... it's up to you. Once you're down to .5 mg, you jump off.

Worst case scenario (though I don't think in your case it will be that way, but just in case)... is that you will have all of the withdrawal symptoms at this point: cramping, achiness, chills, restless legs, sleeplessness, anxiety, depression, nausea, you will feel like crawling out of your own skin all of the time, extreme irritability, etc. Again, take the Xanax only when absolutely needed. It will take away the sleeplessness, anxiety, restlessness, and irritability a bit. Not all the way, but believe me... during opiate withdrawal, even a small improvement is a great one. Just be really careful with that shit and how often you take it, and try to save some... enough to last a week or so after the worst of the withdrawals are over (usually the third day).

Your alternative option is to go on Suboxone. Yeah, you'll have to fess up to a doctor, but trust me it's worth it as far as withdrawals go. They won't judge you, and it's likely you won't be flagged, since you got hooked for a medical reason and you are being upfront about wanting to be off of it (I wasn't, and I'm still allowed to be prescribed opiates if I need them for some reason). With Suboxone, you'll definitely still be able to work and have a normal life. It's also the only way to get good drugs to help you during withdrawals - Valium (less harmful than Xanax but still does the trick) or another non-benzodiazepine anti-anxiety medication, clonodine, an anti-depressant, etc. Don't take the methadone - you'll only be replacing one opiate for a stronger one for a habit that is fairly mild.

Of course, that part is up to you. If you choose to do it without medical supervision... trust me, there is NO possible way you will be able to make it into work every single day during this process, so you might want to plan - try to just get 4 days or so off, maybe even a week, during the peak of it. The worst of the withdrawals are usually days 3 - 5... day three is absolute torture, and it gets very slightly better the next two days... after that's over, it begins to improve much more, but it's still pretty uncomfortable.

That being said, here are some things that will help you out if you want to do it on your own:
- Exercise is the main one, because it helps your circulation, your mood, and helps the toxins come out more quickly.
- Loperamide a.k.a Immodium. It helps with the runs if you have them, and it's also a (very weak) opiate, so it can help make withdrawals slightly less horrific.
- Valerian root
- St. John's Wort
- Lemon balm extract
- Ibuprofen
- Melatonin supplements
- Healthy food like vegetables, soup, etc. and antioxidants like cranberry juice or tea.
- Hot baths or showers
- A good support system
- Bluelight and the internet... because reading as much as you can about withdrawals, why they happen, and knowing that other people are going through the same thing help exponentially.
- L-Tyrosine

Those are the main ones, and you can all get them over the counter.. and some for free ;)

Good luck!! Let us know how it goes.
 
I dont think u will have much withdraw because u are able to just take dope once a day. I start feeling withdraw abour 6 hrs after my last dose and I wakeup dope sick every morning. See how long u can go without dosing, just to get a feel for what ur in for.
 
because so mcuh can go wrong tapering.[/QUOTE said:
You got that right. The hardest thing about tapering for me is sticking to the regimen. Nobody can really set up a tapering schedule for you without knowing a lot more info than is available above. Also, not being a medical professional (and failing miserably many times trying to follow my own schedule) I'd be hesitant to offer any "take 20 mg every 6 hours for the first two days then take 15 mg every 8 hours...." etc. However, I can tell you from experience if you are going to use opiates (opioids) for your tapering, it is good to research whatever drug you are using, find out the relative half-life, bioavailability, etc. but also to be fully aware that once you start decreasing your dose (or increase time between doses) that bottle is going to start looking real inviting. Just be careful. Now, for tapering, initially I prefer to use the "increase the time between doses" as opposed to the "decrease the dose method." For example, I've actually used dilaudid to take myself down off long heroin benders (longer than one month). Dilaudid has a very short half-life so I would start at 4mg/4hrs then gradually lengthen the interval between doses. Once I got to 8 hours, I started dropping the dose. A lot of people can't keep to that kind of schedule, especially with a supply of short acting, full agonist opioids ready and waiting which is why suboxone is such a crowd pleaser in the medical/behavioral health community. Everyone is different, so probably the best thing for you is to review the available literature on all the stuff you've taken and plan to take, understand what it really is and plan accordingly. Good luck!

J
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Oh pooooor young professional functioning addict join the club lol

Here's what you do:

Enjoy those roxies for the last few weeks. Dont even taper.

Get a couple suboxone pills and use like 1-2mg a day for about a week

Then jump off everything and you will be ok

The worst thing about withdrawal is waking up in the morning feeling like shit and needing to dose right away, and this isn't a problem for you so don't be surprised if your withdrawals aren't as bad as you think they ate going to be
 
I go to a methadone clinic on a daily basis. Opiates are something that I must have in my life or else I feel like nobody. It's said.

I recommend methadone clinics. Intake is easy and dosing on a daily basis is easy. You have to want to do it thought and not to go in and get high. I go in every morning, take my dose and I feel normal.

However, I am on Celexa, Alprazolam XR 2 mg - 2 times a day, and Clonozapam 2 mg - 3 times a day.
 
Thanks to all of you, except the first one to respond to my post and any other bashers. I'm not bragging, I'm trying to paint a clear picture of my life so it will motivate others with greater knowledge and experience to help me out during this difficult time. I'll cut the swim out, it's just been awhile and I figured it's a good to not incriminate myself. I appreciate all the responses and I think I'm just going to start next Monday cutting my dose in half at night and see if I can keep that up for 5 days. It will be tough, as the whole "rationality-out-the-window" concept when you want more will be there. The only positive note I can think of in this regard is that three don't get me high anyway, so 2 really shouldn't feel like much of a change. I'm gonna try it first myself, and then involve my GF if I have to.

Burtonchic, you especially have gone out of your way to give me invaluable info! Really appreciate it. I'm really worried about not being able to make it to work. Hopefully if I get this taper right, I won't have to. I'm so hesitant to use a doctor, as I think my OP involved a small misunderstanding. My friend has pain problems, my consumption was purely recreational 100% of the time. It sounds like I will need to find a doctor to prescribe me clonidine and I can't think of a way to get that accomplished without fessing up. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that he/she IS going to flag me, as I live in a relatively strict state when it comes to this stuff. Ugh, any more advice?

P.S. for Leaping Gnome:
I typed my OP out as fast as possible. I'm surprised those were the only errors you found! Just in the spirit of fun: I saw you wrote, "I'm about to the SWIM point now that it would be better to just live with 100% of the pain and get off them." ;) - we can all afford to proof our work a bit! Then again, it's a forum, not a term paper. Anyway, thanks for your advice as well.

This is such a great community! I can't wait to give back to it somehow. You can't do anything about a few trolls here and there, but my viewpoint is, if they're so miserable trolling makes them feel better at my expense - then go for it! Clearly someone THAT miserable needs allll the help they can get ;)

I'm gonna enjoy my weekend and keep you guys posted.
 
^ You do realize that the post above yours is by the OP and contains no SWIMming?
 
DarkFlame said:
Thanks to all of you, except the first one to respond to my post and any other bashers. I'm not bragging, I'm trying to paint a clear picture of my life so it will motivate others with greater knowledge and experience to help me out during this difficult time. I'll cut the swim out, it's just been awhile and I figured it's a good to not incriminate myself. I appreciate all the responses and I think I'm just going to start next Monday cutting my dose in half at night and see if I can keep that up for 5 days. It will be tough, as the whole "rationality-out-the-window" concept when you want more will be there. The only positive note I can think of in this regard is that three don't get me high anyway, so 2 really shouldn't feel like much of a change. I'm gonna try it first myself, and then involve my GF if I have to.

Burtonchic, you especially have gone out of your way to give me invaluable info! Really appreciate it. I'm really worried about not being able to make it to work. Hopefully if I get this taper right, I won't have to. I'm so hesitant to use a doctor, as I think my OP involved a small misunderstanding. My friend has pain problems, my consumption was purely recreational 100% of the time. It sounds like I will need to find a doctor to prescribe me clonidine and I can't think of a way to get that accomplished without fessing up. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure that he/she IS going to flag me, as I live in a relatively strict state when it comes to this stuff. Ugh, any more advice?

P.S. for Leaping Gnome:
I typed my OP out as fast as possible. I'm surprised those were the only errors you found! Just in the spirit of fun: I saw you wrote, "I'm about to the SWIM point now that it would be better to just live with 100% of the pain and get off them." ;) - we can all afford to proof our work a bit! Then again, it's a forum, not a term paper. Anyway, thanks for your advice as well.

This is such a great community! I can't wait to give back to it somehow. You can't do anything about a few trolls here and there, but my viewpoint is, if they're so miserable trolling makes them feel better at my expense - then go for it! Clearly someone THAT miserable needs allll the help they can get ;)

I'm gonna enjoy my weekend and keep you guys posted.
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Thank you! It means a lot to me to hear that; I always love hearing I helped someone with this kind stuff :)

That being said. My only other advice when it comes to not getting flagged is to try and go straight to a Suboxone doctor instead of getting a referral through your primary doctor, if that is at all possible for you. Better yet, find an addiction specialist. Yeah... scratch that last part. Don't look for a doctor who just has a Suboxone license; look for an actual addiction specialist. In your situation, I have a little bit of advice for you that MIGHT help: tell the doctor you were self-medicating. Tell them that you had back pain one day, took a Vicodin or something, and all of the sudden not only your back pain was gone... but so was your grief over your dog who died! (Whether that's true or not)... and that you just got used to taking pills to control your feelings. If you want, you could say you were self-medicating for a more serious form of depression (because chances are that's what you're doing anyways... that's why many, many people get hooked on opiates). An addiction specialist is someone who understands addiction, the mechanisms behind it, why people do it, etc. It's their area of expertise, after all. And they will be far more prone to accommodate someone who was taking it to ease some sort of emotional or physical pain, than someone who was taking it just to catch a buzz every day. You might still be flagged, but not banned... chances are, you will just have to get an approval from your addiction specialist... and if he or she is a good one, and you need them for something serious like a surgery or severe injury, they will approve it and will not deny you the medication you need. I had surgery literally 3 months after I fessed up to my doctor that I was addicted to opiates, and I had no problem at all getting a prescription of 40 Norco.

And besides. This is just my opinion, but I feel like the possibility of being flagged and needing an addiction specialist to approve opiate medications is a very small price to pay when it comes to your health and your own life. That's just me though. But yeah, that's the only other advice I have for you when it comes to getting Suboxone. It's not an easy thing to find on the street... and even if you do manage to find some, chances are your source is going to run out sooner or later. Honestly dude, I think going through an addiction specialist is your best bet. But once again, that's completely up to you. If you still don't feel comfortable going that route and truly can't bring yourself to do it, then go out and buy all of the things I listed. And on top of that - you exercise, bitch and rant and rave to the people who care, love, and support you, come on Bluelight and read about the hell other people are going through, take hot showers, etc.

But just to let you in on a little secret: when I fessed up to my doctor that I was addicted to opiates, they didn't judge me. Not one little bit. As a matter of fact, they prescribed me MORE just to get me through the weekend until I could see them... and ever since then, they have been doing everything they can to help me get clean through Suboxone. The medical system IS your friend, believe it or not. (Pharmacies, however... are a different story... but I won't get into that lol).

And last of all - trolls. The trolls, the trolls, the trolls. Do not even take them seriously or let them get to you. See that little button on the upper right hand corner that looks like a piece of paper, right under where it shows which number post it is? If you feel harrassed or like someone is spamming your thread, that's the report button - use it. Chances are their post will be deleted or edited by a mod, and they'll be stopped in their tracks. ;)

And yep, you gotta love Bluelight! This is an absolutely amazing community, I can't stress that enough! It's like a drug in and of itself, so addictive... except it's the healthy kind of addiction! haha
 
DarkFlame,

I didn't mean proof reading for spelling, etc...I meant it as you slipped a few times and it was "I", instead of the SWIMMER writing. :) All that was in fun, so I hope you took it as such?

Anyway, still all the best, to you this time, not Swimmy, in beating them!

Oh yeah, and I still suggest trying a TENS unit for your back as a non-drug way of helping with back pain.

Leaping Gnome
 
Pegasus said:
^ You do realize that the post above yours is by the OP and contains no SWIMming?
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Sorry, I was just making a comment on the the whole SWIM thing bc i guess i have a head cold and was completely unable to understand it. Anyway still, a life with no swimming isnt much life at all.
 
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