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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Shroomy -

It is utter bullshit that you have to resort to IVing morphine or snorting heroin for pain relief. Maybe this is a bit drastic, but I would be inclined to contact an attorney about this! It feels like it's inhumane and shouldn't be legal.

Im sorry you aren't doing well, but you are still awesome, no matter how you feel!

- VE
 
I have figured out the next step in my taper: it is a 12.5% daily decrease in my dosing. I am currently implementing that schedule into my current taper schedule. So far, although it has resulted in cravings, the great news is has not yet triggered any physical withdrawal symptoms. That could happen anytime in the next few days though, so I am definitely not feeling complacent.
Hi there, Shroomy!
 
What a messed up day. :( As soon as I took my scheduled dose, and I got a little energy, I went out to mow the lawn. It was way overdue. Anyway, the door into the garage caught a small gust of air and shut hard. The glass in the window shattered, and shards of glass are all over. The door is old, over 60 years. And it is an entry door, not a typical garage door. Anyway, without thinking, I cam into the house and took two doses of my meds. I guess I need them for the energy to clean up the glass, and I have to go to Home Depot to shop b/c I need supplies to temporarily repair the opening so that critters do not get in. I called the best rated place on Yelp, and it will be a week until they can measure, and then over a week after than to install. And, of course, it is $$$. It makes me not care about my taper, only want to feel less anxious and upset. And my taper was going so well... I am sure identifying another trigger. I just might have to go back to 12 step meetings... idk. I will not be able to be forthcoming, as I am going to continue my taper, I am not doing the all or nothing c.t. that they will recommend. So, I might just go listen and keep my mouth shut, if it takes me any amount of time to get back on track and regain my motivation.
 
Sounds like you had a bad day. Sorry about that. My taper got messed up when I realized I only had enough for 40mg a day. And that is way, way too low. The withdrawals have been hellish. I was going to run out early so now I have to take hydromorphone later today which is making me nervous.
 
Thanks Shroomy. Good luck with the hydromorphone... I hope your withdrawals are calming down a bit. I was able to get back on track last night, using my newly revised tapering plan. With the 12% decrease, withdrawals are not too bad, but definitely noticeable, especially the muscle weakness and lethargy. However, I can deal with those symptoms... as long as I can eat, and avoid nausea and RLS, I am good. I just have to be mindful that sh*% happens, and to breathe through the anxiety. Taking extra doses is not helping me in the long run. I will keep reminding myself: this process is three steps forward, two steps back, with progress overall.
 
Hey, so I am on track with my taper. I am taking 40mg each day and it's rough. It's driving me mad it's driving me mad it's driving me mad. I want you so bad.

Anyways, I am doing well though. Feel kinda cheerful even though my body is like worse than corpse status. I am 100% strung out. It has been what... going on 2 months of this shit now? Fuck you really gotta pay the price for that euphoria don't you. I just made a delicious shrimp pasta and took one bite and can't eat iit... and I'm stoned to the max... pure torture...

The problem with me is my mood will flip like a switch in the blink of an eye from something like this to extremely miserable. One thing I'll add is I started taking higher doses spaced 12 hours apart instead of dosing 6 hours apart. This helps me be "high" for a short period of time where I can take care of my body a little bit instead of just laying around all day. I'm finding it better this way but at the same time I have no room at all for error. Every last pill is account for because my pick up at the pharmacy dope lords.

I sniffed a lot of dilaudid a few days ago. However, I was going to iv it. I put the needle in my arm from a perfectly prepped shot and freaked out, couldn't do it. Took it out and freaked out about the little red mark on my arm. I have way too much anxiety to ever be doing that in a non-medical setting. I was going to relapse but it really knocked some sense into me when I was going to do that. I got a great buzz off sniffing 14mg hydromorphone one night, and the next night. It definitely works on slightly different receptors than the oxy because I could still feel that oxo-burnout feeling sort of when I was on it, but that dilaudid was a great relief to sniff for a couple days. That's just something I'm probably going to have to accept I'll be doing once in a while. Freakin love the stuff.
 
Withdrawal is horrific now. Horrible crying spells. Nothing but a black hole of hopelessness and despair. That's my prescribed dose and it's forced. Low on pills. I think it was this bad the first time I started this a couple months ago so maybe it will go away but absolutely torture for now. I don't even feel like anything is real. The depression is the hardest to deal with for me. I've never seen such lows.
 
^... sorry to hear you are experiencing such a tough time, S. I think the reason opioid addiction is so hard to beat is that it affects us horribly: physically, emotionally, mentally. And for those of us with mental illness or personality disorders, like for example, me and my depression... well, withdrawal just makes it so much worse.

Even though I am "only" tapering.. the clarity of mind I am experiencing is letting my issues float into my consciousness more often. I will have to address them if I am to be able to continue to taper to very low doses. And, I will. I am going to visit several different recovery oriented groups in my metro area... I hope I go sooner, rather than later. I need to be able to process around my issues as they relate to my addiction. I tend to learn a lot in a group setting when I feel safe and just shut up and listen to others. I wish antidepressants worked for me, but the side effects are awful, and quitting them is also rough, physically, so right now, they are not an option.
 
You sound more level headed than me. I am strung out it seems especially now that I dose once every 12 hours so I an get a little high, at 11pm the one hour before I dose it is so rough. Definitely more like full blown withdrawals now. I think I spent 24 hours just crying. But then I smoked some good weed and passed out. This is a miserable situation to be in and I can't take it anymore. There isn't one aspect of my life that I really enjoy all that much. Maybe that is the anhedonia talking. I am very depressed though. I an't expect to go back to happy when there was never any happiness to begin with. If anything quitting has made me realize how shitty my life is and one I have missed out and and what I regret.

It is Tuesday afternoon I should be starting to come around soon. This last cut has been the tough for me. I will stay at 40mg for a long time, probably like a year, before changing anything. This is way too hardcore to go on for longer than a week or two, but it's already been 2 months. Don't really care if the process takes longer, fuck cold turkey withdrawal with a habit like this it would be the death of me. No way, I am already on the brink of insanity. I passed out and I think I missed lunch, anyway, I went 15.5 hours without any oxycodone at all. That is the longest yet, because I passed out during the time I normally dose 12 hours apart. I just wish I had more fun problems to deal with than repairing my messed up body.

All of this has been a spiritual experience, way more than any acid trip. I am fighting for the last chance I have at ever having a normal life. I am just going to take the beating and get off this stuff fast. I can't handle it at all. I'm worried about the weekend because what happens when I get my drugs and I'm fiending for them. Is it going to be the same shit where I just run out early and end up with a higher tolerance. All the side effects. The mental illness without it is unbearable I just need more support there or there isn't even a chance. I have to fight this monster of a bad habit.
 
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You sound like you have had some very rough days... maybe the worse is over??? To get down to 40mg is amazing... once you are comfortable there you will be in a very good place.

I am so glad my new doctor "made" me quit my benzo, my ativan. I am so happy that Thursday or Friday of last week was my last dose. I miss it, although it was a small dose. I loved the relaxed feeling it provided, and it did have a synergistic effect on my oxys. But, another thread here on The Dark Side has given me the motivation to quit and stay quit... the w/d's sound horrible. And, who knows, my dosage could have increased at any time.. look what happened two years ago with my opiates. I added the ER medication at that time, thinking i would just stockpile it and never use it, and before I knew it I was using the full prescribed amount each month.
So, I am grateful to be benzo free. And thanks, Shroomy, for the advice re: marijuana. Since I don't use it now, why start? Why risk switching addictions or adding another one. The only meds I am on are my tapered dose of oxymorph and oxycodone, and I want the clarity of mind that this taper has shown me to continue.
 
I don't know if I will make it to a stable 40mg because I get my pills in a few days and like I just don't see myself not abusing them, at least for a few days. Ugh. That is going to be the real test. I'm going to try and save some pills so I can get high on those and save my prescription to take as normal after a day or two of relief.
It's so not worth it to take more when I have come this far but I find that I have to every week or two for a health break. I am in what I call the second stage of withdrawal. It is the most horrific stage and lasts about a week. All of the withdrawal symptoms are active. So the worst is not over for me... it's just get started with this 40mg dose... I get really really nasty withdrawals, always have.

I think you are right about the weed, unless you are like super super super stressed out. It's not going to touch your pain with the types of habits that we have. I totally regret starting up the hash this year, I'm going to have to quit that too and it causes a lot of stress to quit. I have been smoking it compulsively in withdrawal though and it definitely has helped keep me from relapsing too much. I'm just sick and tired of smoking it after 9 months. It's not a problem apart from financially, just not a help.

Also, the clarity of mind is ridiculous now. I have come to realize so much that I have to describe it as a spiritual experience. I know that sounds cliche but I will never be the same after going through this. I will appreciate and praise every minute of a normal life if I can get there. I just know this is my last chance, I've been laying in a basement for about 2 months now and I can't ever go through this again. It makes perfect sense why the withdrawals are so harsh considering how high I get off the doses I am cutting out.

Anyways, I am very worried that things are going to swing the other way. I find that I am becoming more social now, and less of a jerk. I find that I am more interested in getting to know people because it isn't all about the drugs when I am just taking the oxy as prescribed. My pain is worse but I feel more alive. I really want to keep this going but I know that I have to make some changes to stop the negative feelings that trigger me to use again once I go through the physical symptoms. I don't expect to be anything remotely normal for at a couple weeks from now and a whole recovery might take the rest of the year. It's just the sad reality of my life right now, there is nothing I can do to correct it but continue to choose not to use the drugs so heavily. I've been taking 20mg oxy every 12 hours and I am just going to keep doing that. It's not fun.
 
That is so cool to hear that you are having some positive effects along with the suffering. Like, the clarity of mind you wrote about, as well as becoming more social. I am also feeling like isolating less now that my dose is lowered... I didn't even try... it is just a natural result of not being so drugged up.

I had a good visit at the pain management doctor. I was in and out within 30 minutes. Then, my pharmacy actually had my meds in stock... they did not have to order anything. I just waited about 20 minutes, and got them filled. They even filled the oxymorph a couple of days early. And, I had no copay at all for either opiates. $0.00!
I think I hit my deductible or something...idk. I am now set until the day before Thanksgiving.

My daughter has a huge safe, and will lock up the pills I did not use this month. Then, I will work on my taper for the this coming month. My goal is to have even more pills left over as well as to continue with the tapering process. I am so glad I get sick when I overdo it... otherwise, I would feel like celebrating tonight and would take an extra pill or two. I just remember the stomach issues, the dizziness, the splitting headache, and NO! I cannot take extra.
 
I also want a relationship with a real woman and not a chemical that comes from a plant. That is just human nature but I only ever try when I'm not abusing. Otherwise, I am basically a vegetable, I don't need other people at all. William Burroughs said something about that, I think he wrote a lot about that topic. Well, there is no sex with these drugs when you are a guy. It's a miserable part of the experience for me and really one of my main motivations to quit because who enjoys being asexual. It really is a great example of how it can steal the life out of you because that is a fairly powerful energy to completely destroy. I've already made new friends since that drastic cut last week. Otherwise, I simply do not care. And yet I sit here shaking and fiending a hit.

edit - so that was me before getting high. I realized I had a few extras and within the hour took 35mg. Considering that has been my pretty much my daily dose all week, I'm having great relief. I feel so good I might even puke. Holy fuck my tolerance is wayyy down low. I don't know if I agree with what I wrote before. I just went through a shitty breakup not too long ago and I think it's still fucking with me emotionally, exacerbated by the withdrawal. It ended real bad so obviously that's having a heavier impact on me than the drugs. Not everything is withdrawal. I don't have time for this shit though. I have enough that I can go back up to 60mg and there is nothing wrong with that. I won't have to worry about extras for like 3 weeks too and I'll be feeling way way way better. So I'm gonna keep kicking away at this habit, but the type of withdrawal I've been going through, although quick and efficient, is beyond miserable. I cannot even describe the hell and I am going straight back to it soon for a couple days so I better kick back and enjoy myself right now.
 
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I have even more motivation to continue to taper: I found out my pain management doctor does random pill counts and you get fired if you are even short one. By tapering, with this latest decrease, I have a quarter pill left every day, of my extended release meds, and 2 IR pills left over as well.

^That sounds great... that your tolerance has dropped so much! All the suffering does have a great result.... sometimes when I am in the middle of it, I lose sight.

Tomorrow, I have plans to go to the zoo with my granddaughter and daughter. First time ever. Between isolating due to the effects of my meds, and my pain issues, I have declined the invites to do this. However, while tapering, the busier I am, the less I focus on the next dose. And, I will bring a cane to help me walk, and my daughter is supportive of frequent breaks so the pain does not skyrocket.
 
I find that it is important to have something worth fighting for. Then when you lose sight, you can think of that thing you will lose. I don't really know what that is for me, so whenever the physical symptoms start to subside, I panic when I realize how much further I have to go to recover. I keep doing these harsh tapers to avoid facing my feelings completely. It keeps me distracted with physical pain. The post acute withdrawal is really where I am going to need to do something different. Every time I realize how long I'm going to remain depressed, I relapse right away out of hopelessness when I am not as distracted by the symptoms. For myself the physical agony is the easy part, it is the emotional torment that comes a couple weeks later that fucks me up right away. I've never reached a point where I am physically comfortable and I don't think it's possible because I never really was to begin with in the same sense.

I have already had so many setbacks in life, the idea of spending another 6 months depressed just isn't good for me. The withdrawal lasts months... whoever said it is 3 to 5 days is talking about mild, shorter term habits. Once you get going long term like this it's just a fuckin never-ending nightmare and I can't even see how much worse it will get if I continue. I just know, worse.

That's actually demeaning though, the (mandatory) random pill count thing. I'd be pissed, I don't even have appointments except every few months. Just my opinion! If it helps you quit then that's fucking awesome. But I feel like that should only be mandatory, if you have an addiction history or would like to do it for the added support. Seems too controlling. Anything to get off this monstrosity though. It's a fucking monster. I fucked up so bad as soon as I realized I had extra pills. Went straight back to 80mg a day, which is what I need to be comfortable. 60mg is a crumby day, 40mg is hell, and anything less is just sheer torture. And also, which is the maximum I can take without running out early.

I noticed almost immediately that I just stop giving a fuck about people. I might pretend that I do, but I don't really think that I'm capable of much empathy when I am that high.

That new music video... called drug dealer by macklemore... is actually pretty well done I thought. Personally I hate when people blame doctors though, doctors are fucking smart people. That's pretty much how I've been looking the past couple months. I have noticed how my soul has already blackened from a single day of use like this. I have become more depressed from the one day of use. It's fucking bullshit hell I'm so sick and tired of it but at least I didn't suffer today. I had something like 6 hours to go and I was already being tortured so I just took the fucking devil. I'm convinced at this point that the shit has ruined my life. I've seen the post acute withdrawal, how miserable it is one you have actually quit... I've caught a glimpse of that and I don't like what I am up against. Not one bit.
 
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I had a wonderful day today!:) The weather was beautiful and just perfect for a visit to the zoo. I met my daughter and granddaughter at the entrance, and to see my granddaughter's little face light up when she saw I was there... priceless. We did a lot of walking, and my back was ok; however, the pain level in my knee kept increasing throughout the day. It was ok, though, as I was distracted and used mindfulness to focus on the people I was with and the animals, reminding myself to ignore the pain. I have one of those Fitbits and was happy to see I walked over 5,000 steps.

I finally got my referral to physical therapy approved... the message was waiting for me once I got home. all that walking was helpful in that I was able to write down details of the where the pain was located, etc. If I had been hanging around at home, I would not be able to be so exact.

The restaurant I found on Yelp was awesome... we had Chinese food for lunch and granddaughter ate a lot... which is good. She just got over the croup so needed to get good nutrition. My daughter is so proud of my progress with my taper... she again mentioned that I am more involved in life and seem happier. I am very honest with her, and told her I took extra to help with my knee pain and to avoid w/d's from messing with the day. She was supportive.

Tomorrow it is so important I get right back on track on my taper. I am glad I bought that time lock safe... I will lock up my drugs so that I will not be playing mind games between doses and trying to rationalize extra/early doses.
 
I'm back......
I had a couple weeks where it seemed every other day there was some good reason to throw my tapering plans out the window( family events, holiday, got a new dog, etc) made it up to 150 mg/day oxycodone a couple times. I thought it would be OK and I would just go back to 60 but oh no. The wd's from even one day that high left me taking 120 for two days, then struggling just to get to 90 and stay there. Then my Dr says I need to get down from 90/day to 60 in the next month.
So... My old plan was never go up in dose and never go down by more than 5 mg/day. That failed because lifes stress would send me over, then I would say "Well, If I'm cheating anyway..... " and take 150 that day. Now I am planning my taper around my life and ajdusting my life around my taper. And everyone who gets in the way can go F-off.
Example. I plan to do as much wd'ing as possible while sleeping. I plan my dosages around a 10pm beftime. If friends come over, i excuse myself around 9:30 saying my back is really hurting (6 screws I got in there gets me out if a lot these days) and I go to bed. Before , I would stay up later and take more pills because of the WD's.
The worst part is really getting used to taking less when I am hurting more. I'm on 6 mg Lorazepam /day still and I'm going to stay there until this whole opiate problem gets settled. I figured out that taking 2 mg every 8 hours works WAY better than doing the 'when needed' thing.
 
I also give myself one dose a day that I can enjoy. One where there is no noise or distractions and I can really appreciate the relaxation and pain relief. It gives me a little target every 24 hours.
Thinking of the weeks or months of work ahead here is enough to make me give up quitting. 24 hours is more doable.
I usually wake up around 5 am. The house is quiet and everyone is asleep. I get to take my dose in peace and lie down in bed and relax and really get to feel that transition from pain and withdrawl to pain-free and happy. Then I fall back asleep from the Lorazepam I take at the same time. It's an awesome target and it is really helping to keep me on track.
 
Don't sweat it too much Shroomi. Do what you have to, then forgive yourself tomorrow. The anger you have at yourself for failing will be the reason you do it again tomorrow. That's what was happening to me anyway.
 
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