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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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^Thank you for sharing your experiences. i wish I had access to subs, I would definitely use them. Shroomy, I too am winding down in that I am going to stay at my current tapering schedule for now and just get some things done. Please feel free to send me a PM if I am not around and you would like some encouragement/support. You have been an invaluable friend here to me on this journey. I will be back soon.
 
Had a brutal day today because I used around 100mg the last couple days. I regret that so much, it was because I had such bad anxiety but the oxy didn't even help, it was an unrelated panic attack that triggered me to use. I thought I was panicking because of the lack of oxy but I wasn't. I panicked so hard I did not even feel the extra oxy. It felt like an enormous setback and hangover today when I went back to 60mg. Worse, is with the extras I used I won't have enough to keep at 60mg now before my refill. I will have to drop lower and really torture myself but I guess that's life when you're addicted. I'll post back once I've made some more progress. I'm at the "no choice because you are low on pills" point. I don't have much experience with this but I really hope those two days weren't too much of a setback. I can only carry on.
 
I messed up. I got my meds yesterday and processed to use 4.5 pills instead of the 3.5 I am prescribed a day, or the 2 a day I was using this week. As a result, I feel gross, was cranky, and it seemed like my back was bothering me more. The good news is, I can get right back on my schedule. I only used 2 so far today, and its dinner time.

I'm sharing this in hope that we all see we need to forgive ourselves in this overall great thing we're doing for ourselves. One day, one dose; in the big picture, not a big deal. I'm choosing to see that I CAN fix this.
 
Well I hope you feel better tomorrow. Same thing happened to me yesterday. I took something like 120mg instead of my usual 60. The day before I took 80, and today when I got back on track I felt like shit and still do. Definitely not worth it. I was getting unrelated panic attacks, well at least triggered by other stuff, and I thought it might be the oxy so I took a whole bunch. Didn't even enjoy it.

I am worried about the level of pain I am in. It is way too much, but one of my main motivations for quitting is how shitty the medical treatment I am getting is. The doctors are utterly useless and I would prefer never to deal with them if I was off the oxycodone, as basically the only thing they do is prescribe me it. I never thought I could get so angry at doctors for crying out loud and also develop such a strong stereotype based on what I've seen from around 30 of them. I see a doctor once every 3 months for like 2 minutes yet this problem is ruining my life. I have been very expressive. It's the dumbest treatment ever to get someone hooked on opiates and not even follow through with it and account for tolerance over a period of years. My doctor actually wastes my time talking about how they had to bring in tamper proof pills. What the fuck does that have to do with my treatment except they don't work anywhere near as well and I'm not a child. Okay I will stop before I go on a rant about Canadian doctors. Man it's just a big joke, they go to work and hustle like anyone else. That's all I see, over and over and over for 4 years now. In my opinion heroin dealers have more compassion for people in pain. The amount of oxycodone I am prescribed is a fucking insult.
 
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Well, on Tuesday, because I felt so rested and had a lot to do, took some extra oxymorph as well. What a learning experience! I was so sick on Wednesday, I don't even think I signed online even once... I was throwing up, dizzy, etc., etc., in bad physical withdrawal. I quickly established my regular tapering dosage schedule, and added an oxycodone or two when things were at the worst... but now I got an answer to that question I asked over a week ago here... was I suffering withdrawal or hangover from too much oxy the day before? It is BOTH! My body craved the higher dose and threw me into withdrawals when I decreased my dosage back to baseline, but I was also sooo toxic from taking extra. Now I know I will be able to quit... once the drugs turn on me do I have a choice? NO! I don' t ever want to forget how sick I was.. it was as sick as I used to get at 12 hours into cold turkey, only this time it was 6 hours into my regular taper schedule.
Today, I was still lethargic and had a mild headache, but at least I could eat something. I am back at my regular 20mg ER oxymorphone dosage a day today... I can't keep wasting my time getting sick and then getting stable and well, and then blowing it with a day of extra usage. I just will stick to this taper amount for awhile, and when I am ready, I am going to down by close to 10%... I will subtract 2.5mg from each day's total dosage. I am not going to go too fast... I get ahead of myself and trip up.
I can't afford to get so impatient.
 
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That's horrible, to get that bad withdrawal from one slip-up! I too learned my lesson, yesterday felt like such shit. Today I'm still not right. I never puked in my withdrawal yet and I think it's because of the hash. I'm also finding that hash has decent pain relief as well, I didn't really notice before but it totally does.

And yeah, even if I relapse for a few days I very quickly realize how stupid it is to do that. It isn't a fair trade at this point. I'm just happy to be back on track. It doesn't matter if I feel like shit right now because eventually I'm going to fell good again. It is going to take a pretty long time.

I am a relapse waiting to happen though because the actual problem is not being addressed in any other way (my extreme back pain that makes me want to slit my wrists all day). It's not possible to address this problem without pain medication which is under lock down and unavailable to me except in very small amounts. I'm essentially a dormant IV heroin user. I am a fuckin vegetable waiting for a shot to activate my brain. I just know that I'd never relapse with oxycodone, it's way too expensive even though I like it the most. I'd have to shoot that shit and accept a short life, which I guess is cool, I am a burden to a lot of people.
 
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^ That is sad that you feel you are a burden to some people... however, you are nothing but supportive here on this thread. I would not have continued to post without your continual presence and honesty in sharing. I know that a lot of people write about jumping to methadone or suboxone. However, then I read how many people struggle when they get to the end of the tapering processes on those drugs. I want to skip all that drama, and just taper straight from my prescribed meds, since I take such moderate dosages. I am sure if I went to a clinic every day, my taper would be more linear, however, I don't have that service available and rely on my BL friends to keep me motivated. Of course, now I have the fact that I cannot take my drug in higher dosages or I will be sick as a dog to keep me at my daily goal.
 
^Thanks, really, I am losing my desire to quit personally. I think I want more but I am getting really high on oil instead. I'll just keep dabbing my crumble, and I think that I am just going through a rough patch with cravings. I can't see the light anymore like I had before that was so encouraging. Just gotta keep writing rhymes I guess. No point in going back.
 
You can do it! You were there just a little while ago. And remember, like Poke says, this is a marathon, not a sprint. It's so hard to look at the big picture when the bottle is calling you, but you were feeling so good on 60 for a while. Finding that magic number; the dose that gives you some pain relief, but doesn't get you high or loopy. Hang in there, man. I know it's so hard with the doctors, too. It sucks that some people mess things up for the rest of us legitimate patients. I am super thankful for all of my doctor experiences. My nurses (except one, that no one likes), are super thoughtful, receptive and actually listen. They have tried to help me and make me as comfortable as I can get.

Have you you thought about changing offices, or will it be the same everywhere, because of your health care system. Doctors need to take tolerance into account.
 
Hang in there, Shroomy... it does get difficult when you don't have enough meds to stay on your taper plan... just do your best to get back to your dose of 60mg when you stocked up again. This is truly a 3 steps forward two steps back process... just keep going in a positive direction, and do not give up!

AnnaB: You have been blessed to have supportive understanding pain management providers, so far. But, the DEA is really cracking down on those that provide pain meds. Don't be surprised to be told about "maximum daily doses" being able to be prescribed. I think change is much more manageable when we are prepared in advance.
 
Shroomy, I'm sorry you are struggling! I'll be thinking about you and sending you my good vibes. Please don't lose sight of why you started this journey. But do what you have to do to take care of yourself.

- VE
 
I have enough, as things stand, to take 45mg a day until I get more. I think that is far too steep a drop for me to be able to handle now, considering that a lot of it is tamper proof extended release and I failed twice after a few days of 50mg IR. That tamper proof oxy is pretty much useless. It helps a bit with withdrawal symptoms but does nothing for pain, leaving me in agony. Maybe I really should just buckle down and take 40mg/day, leaving myself a 5mg buffer. Not sure if I can handle that, or what I should do. I really want dope to hold me over and keep taking 60 in the meantime until I run out, then get back on track after a few days of being out of oxy's. Not sure what's going to happen but I have become tormented.

I might just bite the bullet and go through hell. If I take a lot of valium for the next two weeks, I can probably do it. I'm already addicted to benzos anyway, but I've been taking klonopin and if I switch to diazepam I feel like the muscle relaxation properties might be enough to cover at least some of the extreme pain. I have a lot of benzo options haha.

I think I will get some dope regardless because it isn't safe to be like this, I mean what if I continue to fuck up and then I run out cold turkey and completely freak out. But I might get it and not even use it just keep tapering like this and have it as a sort of backup. Cold turkey scares the fuck out of me, it's a suicide risk and anything is better than that. So I think that's the plan, to just bite the bullet and take 40mg doses giving myself a safety 5mg. I took 17.5mg this morning and my back already hurts like hell. I have a muscle relaxer that I might give a try and the valium if I decide to go this way. I'm going to have to keep busy though because my mind is getting stupid from lack of use.

I have a muscle relaxer I am going to add in to the mix. baclofen... anyone heard of it? I'm going to start taking that.. just took 15mg of it. My guess is it will do more harm than good but you never know. If it relaxes my back a bit, I don't really care if it turns me into a zombie since I'm already burnt out.

Okay so this baclofen might be a really useful tool right now. I might even stay on it if it helps with my pain. I was prescribed it but never took it because it made me very drowsy. But of course I hoard the pills. So, I'm thinking of knocking myself out with it now. Maybe taking something like 100mg/day to knock myself out so I don't even know what's going on and hopefully sleep a lot. I remember that stuff made me pass out pretty hard.
 
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Hey Shroomy!

I looked up baclofen and it appears that the maximum daily dose orally is 80 mg per day in 4 divided doses of 20 mgs. Try not to go over that.

Best of luck.

- VE
 
Shroomy, I do understand that as the pain level increases for you, so does your anxiety and other mental health symptoms. I know you already use your coping skills of doing yoga, playing music, posting on BL. You are doing everything you can, so now it sounds like you are focusing on trying to make the "comfort" meds fill the holes left by the lowered doses of opiates.

The important thing is that you stay alive, and avoid a drastic downward spiral... so I have my fingers crossed the baclofen works, along with the benzos. Those oxycodin are basically useless for pain, in my experience. They are just like my morphine sulfate I also took when I was forced to add an extended release medication... they kept me out of withdrawal, nothing else. You have a lot of experience with most of the drugs... so just stay safe, and try to stay as comfortable as you need to be to remain stable, until it is time for your next refill.
 
Thank for all the support, and I am continuing to get off this stuff. I am taking 40mg / day no matter what now. I've got a lot of bad symptoms but I did this before.

And thanks VE! I wasn't so sure - I took 40mg baclofen yesterday and it definitely helped, made me kind of a zombie and I slept for 2 hours tonight even dropping to 40mg. It helps very minimally with pain but it does, I used to take it to lower my daily intake of opiates actually and still get a good sleep. I stopped because I don't like being on more than 1 or 2 meds at once. I didn't dose for 12 hours and then took a 10mg dose as well so I feel like shit. I plan on using around that amount of baclofen until I'm off these opioids. To me it's pretty much irrelevant in comparison if I'm only gonna be on it 2 weeks and I'm taking less than that 80mg. Good to know though, I wasn't sure. I should take well below that limit because of the small amounts of benzos and oxy, but I'm definitely not giving up, not now!
 
I am at my daughter's.. my babysitting gig was rescheduled to this week-end, from last. It is nice to chat with her about my opiate issues.. she is very supportive and has a kind nature... which she did not get from me. She wants me to hurry up with this taper,as she noticed how sick I was. She offered to accompany me to a 12 step meeting if I choose to go. And, believe me, she has a lot on her own plate. So, I get home tonight, and will re-think the intensity and nature of my taper, and may try to speed things up.
So far, if I had to take a little extra this week-end, I made up for it by waiting longer until the next dose, or else I took 1/2 dose. I am not wanting to get sick and I do not want to set this taper back at all.
To anyone else here tapering... I know how hard you are working at this and how much you are persevering. We are doing this b/c long tapers are a safer and easier choice than our past cold turkey experiences. We have to pay the price for opiate usage, one way or another, and this is just one of several different ways.

I am contemplating writing a book about opiate usage, through pain management clinics/doctors, and then, once I complete my taper would write about my taper experience as a way to motivate others to step down. This is the goal I have before me now.
 
I made it back home with only minimal tweaks to my taper dosages. I took one 2.5mg dosage extra yesterday... but broke that in half... and thank God I woke up without being sick today. Then, this afternoon, I took one of my doses one hour earlier. That was it. It means I can feel good about babysitting and not using it as an excuse to rationalize higher or more frequent dosages. I feel like I have been tapering forever, but reading back, I think I started around the 1st or 2nd of October. Time has certainly slowed down.
 
2nd day of 40mg/day, it is getting bad now. Always gets rough days 3 to 10 nowadays. I mean the past days were not easy but the symptoms change for me and become more unbearable. So far so good in terms of avoiding panic attacks. The baclofen and benzos have me totally out of it. Sleep is pretty much out of the question now. So I'll be feeling like shit for a while. If I have one of my scary panic attack then it's all over. I can't handle that and I'll dose, but I am doing the best that I can.
 
^Sending you nothing but positive thoughts and compassion. I was re-reading this thread, and I am just struck by how honest those posting here are about their struggles and mis-steps. I, myself, do not need to present myself as perfect, because I am far from it, in so many ways. I believe that by honestly sharing the process of tapering, figuring out what works for each of us as individuals, what doesn't, what triggers us to use more than we wanted or expressed previously... I think that is key to helping ourselves, as well as helping others who read this. I mean, why post if I am not struggling and it is a breeze? I personally do not need to process my happy times via writing... but I do need to work through my negative experiences.
Saying that, I am moving into new territory, and substituting one of my oxymorphone ER doses with 1 dose of oxycodone IR, 15mg. There is no way to mathematically convert the doses, as the ROA's are different, and one is IR, the other ER, etc. So, I don't know how long the oxycodone will "last" for me, etc. I expect this to take awhile to figure out... I am in no hurry. I just don't like to go up in mg's a day, but have to, b/c there is no way I can go straight to 40mg oxycodone from 20mg of oxymorphone, and that is what the charts say is the equivalence.

I know that withdrawal symptoms are different, less intense and less painful, at least in the past, when I stopped taking oxycodone vs the oxymorphone ER. I also need to make sure I have enough oxymorphone ER in my system for my ua that I take to stay in pain management, and that appointment is the middle of next week. I will be ok as long as I don't increase the total number of dosages I am taking each day, from what I have used on my taper plan the past two weeks.
 
I get horrible emotional problems in withdrawal. I took 30mg IR yesterday and passed out because I was already on so much baclofen and klonopin. I didn't take anything for around 16 hours after that, though. I can't control any of my emotions, I have angers outbursts (punched a hole through a cupboard, beat the shit out of pillows, that kinda stuff just never people, I am much more likely to hurt myself) and then I'll be depressed... but I'm borderline which is often misdiagnosed as bipolar (the mood swings are much more frequent, like within day or even a few hours I frequently experience multiple intense emotions) so anyways, I am not just treating chronic pain with the opioids even though that's the one thing I actually need them for, to continue surviving as a human being. However, the opioids also numb my emotions which I am really not pushing away from. I hate my life and the way I usually feel. Also, I lost my initiative and self motivation when I became sick. I used to be the kid who got 99%'s in science in high school so that was really disappointing. Opioids give me all my old energy back... my vital forces feel like I have never been more alive. It's weird, they are supposed to be sedatives, although I guess that's what I need. I like benzos, hash, opioids, dmt (most sedating/immersive psychedelic) and not much else haha.

I hate how the first dose always has to be a pass out and I miss the high/ period of functionality because I just need the sleep so bad. In this case, I believe my back hurt too much. My memory is a haze, I want to stop taking balclofen but won't until I get off this shit or back on. It's been like 16 hours since then and I haven't taken anything though but I think that brought yesterday's tally to 60mg. I can't really do 40mg or this at all. It's just awful those symptoms.

Anyways, in the middle of my taper I am deciding to IV hydromorphone. I got wheel filters and a bunch of 2mg pills and 3ml syringes with 25g tips. Otherwise, I am going to run out early so it had to be done. It's safer in my opinion (these days, with fentanyl analogues out there) than sniffing heroin. I used to do a lot of dope before I heard about that, now I'll never do it again unless it's absolutely necessary. So anyways... that's not normal to change your mind in the blink of an eye. That is a borderline thing that I believe is known as splitting. Since I don't identify with a personality and also since I have lost touch with the conventional 'reality' in which normal people experience life - being much more spaced out now - it's easier for me to cross boundaries.

So today I just had breakfast and took 20mg IR. According to my taper it should be 10mg but I find taking higher doses less frequently is better because I can actually function for a couple hours and take care of cleaning and hygiene. I have to shower and shave. I mean, those are just things that I do as a man. I haven't in too long, and I won't have the energy to even do just that unless I take the extra amount. I should be okay taking extras, although I haven't injected the dilaudid yet. I'm hoping 2mg won't disappoint me, when I'm just specifically looking for relief from withdrawal. I don't really give a fuck about any of this rush people speak of, so I might even just do 1mg shots. It's hard for me to know in advance, but I do know that 2mg is nowhere near an OD for someone like me. It's just another thing to learn, something to keep my tortured mind preoccupied. I wish my doctor would just give me four 20mg IR oxy pills a day, along with two 20 or 40mg oxycontin pills to take 12 hours apart untampered (NOT tamper-proof worthlessness, I'm not a child)

One thing I am seriously concerned about is that all the laying around may lead to apoptosis. If you don't use neural connections, they get pruned. So I'm worried that I will actually become dumber from not using my brain for so long. I can only use it on pills, if I want to read a book or anything like that. The ability to do anything at all cognitive apart from experiencing a shitty, boring life has been stolen from me - unless I'm on the fucking pills.
 
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