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Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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Shroomy: It sounds like you have a very well thought out taper plan that just continues to work very well for you! I too, am not in a hurry to be going cold turkey right now; however, my pain management doctor mentioned that he wanted me to get new MRI's and x-rays... do you know how expensive that is with my high deductible insurance????
I already have to pay $$$cash each month for the pm visit; I cannot afford to spend many hundreds of dollar extra to repeat the tests. My MRI is from 2012...so I guess January or February 2017 is 5 years, but I believe he is doing it to CHA (cover his a$#.)
That may be when I will have to stop my doctor visits; however, by then, if I stay try to my taper, I will have plenty of oxycodone available to continue my taper to an even lower dose if need be, and/or jump off. I am not worrying - I am being very realistic in today's PM climate. I cannot get ahead of myself though... I need to stay in today.

So, I continue with my goal of .25mg-.33mg ativan; and 20mg ER oxymorphone each day - period. That is it for medication. The only thing I am missing now is my energy level - however, I do have to babysit all day Monday, regardless. It will be a good test. In the past, to be honest, my anxiety at having to chase my granddaughter meant that I would use an extra 10-40 oxymorphone ER a day so that "I made sure" that I could take care of her. It is a definite trigger.

If I can make it through until I get home Monday night with the same dosing schedule that has evolved over the past 4-5 days, I will be very pleased. So, I am going to focus on the very short term, mostly keeping my eye on TODAY, and then will take my experiences to help tweak my goals.
 
I have been having mild withdrawal symptoms all morning... so weird after 5 or 6 days. I guess the stress of leaving soon to stay at my daughter's and babysit can cause withdrawal symptoms... or just coincidental? If it comes down to it, I will use an extra dose before I begin to drive, as it is a little over an hour's drive, when traffic is good, to get to her home from mine. Part of me is afraid that I will ruin my taper by decreasing tolerance, and another part of me is afraid of feeling sick and woozy while driving.

I also am really struggling with a decision I have to make.. I have a small consulting business, that I have wound down a lot while tapering. I do have a new client appt mid week. Just when I want to drop my dosage by 5 mg a day. I am thinking I should cancel the appointment and refer the client elsewhere so that I can focus on the taper; however, the company that provides clients with my name may find that unprofessional and wishy washy and will hurt future business.

The meeting will not be any longer than a total of 2 hours - so I am sure I can handle it. I don't know why I worry about these things... it is not like I am going to work a 12 hour day. And, God knows, I need the money. I am sitting on pins and needles waiting to see how my health insurance premium will increase each month for 2017. The benefits have already been tweaked in a negative direction for my as the customer. OK... I guess I will keep the appointment with the client... makes sense right now. I will have at least a week between meetings to work on that taper anyway. And, I am a little bored at times, to be honest.

Shroomy: What types of activities or coping skills do you use to manage negative feelings? I think that you have other interests that have been put on the back burner for your opiate use... most of us have. If you could even try one or two of those before "losing it" you might feel a bit more peace of mind... I am not judgn'...just observing that someone I see struggling at times becomes self destructive. I need you on this thread, man.... this is the longest I have kept my focus on a taper in a long time, maybe ever. You are a very motivating force in my life right now, so I want you to be here as we figure out how to withstand this attack that is happening to us chronic pain patients... we are financially raped, stigmatized, and shamed by doctors, pharmacists, and definitely the media to name a few. I am praying to God that soon the pendulum begins to swing the other way. Take care of yourself, my friend!
 
Hey there, take care as well. My withdrawals peak a few days in. I think last time I was saying it was the worst around days 5 to 10. There are so many things on the back burner. I was just getting my energy back (I was reading books, playing guitar, getting out to see friends, just starting with little things) when I realized that I don't really have enough extras and have to do a super quick taper now. I feel horrible today at 50mg. I didn't spend enough time at all at 60mg... I only felt great for a few days.

Anna I find that oxycodone is the least mentally addictive opioid. I have heard from a few others say that it's less addictive. Obviously it causes the dependency, but I don't obsess over it as much as the others. Honestly I think it is demonized and they started prescribing way more hydromorphone and fentanyl instead of oxy in my country, both so much more dangerous, instead of oxy. I would be livid if they tried to switch me to anything else. I also enjoy its effects the most, so I'm not sure why this is (addiction wise). I think maybe the slowish onset and because it only makes sense to use it orally. If I had something like dilaudid I could never ever taper with it... haha. I am so happy I am not prescribed that because I can't help but abuse it. But a lot of people have trouble tapering with IR oxy as well. I find the withdrawals come on faster and hit harder by far compared to heroin but mentally, I haven't really been dealing with cravings all that much at all.

The main symptom now is just extreme anxiety, it is nothing like what I was going through before. I am almost there.
Managing the negative feelings is just a matter of keeping busy but I have no energy in withdrawal. The hash definitely helps I couldn't do it without. The hash calms me right down every single time.

I am taking some klonopin to get through the extreme anxiety, I am very prone to it already so even from the 10mg drop of oxy today, my entire day has been a mild panic attack. I know my benzo tolerance will be up a little bit when this is said and done but that's the price to pay. I'm gonna have to talk to a doctor about that other problem anyway at some point.

And yeah I can definitely relate to having priorities, being aware of these priorities, and knowing in advance that the lack of pills will screw you over. Having to make that choice, be productive and functional or continue to taper. The pills (or your own mind) will do everything to convince you to take them, but the truth is that you will recover faster than you think if you just don't. My taper has involved an acceptance that I am going to waste a huge portion of my life and get absolutely nothing whatsoever accomplished for the sake of cutting back. If I have to do something, and I am not up to it, I just won't do it over taking an extra pill.

The oxy IR works well to take every 6 hours for a taper. I find that for the two hours before I dose, I am in debilitating withdrawal and otherwise I feel okay. That's where I'm at right now but also I've been having insomnia since I dropped my dose. I was sleeping all day every day once I started feeling good, now that I am tapering again I get no sleep at all.
 
^No wonder you were so upset!! I could not understand... thank you for letting us know that the fact you were running out was a reason that you decided to decrease your taper amount again. That just sucks... and thanks for sharing about the symptoms getting worse a bit later... I was caught unawares today and took an extra dose.

Not a good thing to do, as I feel so much better already. To make things worse, my daughter is not feeling well... I think it sounds like she has the stomach flu. She did not want to pass any germs to me or others, so had called a little bit ago to re schedule my babysitting job and cancel for tonight and tomorrow. So, I took an extra dose for basically nothing.
You are right...the pills were trying to convince me to take them, and they won, at least for one dose. I hope that I get right back on track. Very insightful thinking around your acceptance of what a tapering plan requires in terms of commitment and sacrifice.

BY the way, oxymorphone, whether it is IR or ER, has some forms of it that are still easily crushable. The name brand, Opana, is not, and sucks from everything I have read. The generic oxymorphone brand that I have is pretty crappy, in terms of effect and amount that I can get out of it. This is the problem: to get the desired effect one must take it nasally. (I feel a lot of shame by sharing that information). I guess some articles say that there is only 10% bioavailability when taken orally, but that increases to 30-40% when taken nasally. Once I learned that early this year, I think, I asked to be prescribed it, as I was hating the morphine ER, and my insurance did not cover oxycontin. We must be on an ER type opiate to remain in pain management here in my state.
Oxymorph is just so much better than oxycodone when snorted. Because of the quality of the high, and the more rapid onset when snorted, it is very very addictive. One brand out there is just considered amazing in terms of the effect; I do not have that generic brand. However, I was able to get the IR form of the good brand prescribed this past appointment. It is only because no pharmacy carried it that I instead returned to my clinic and asked for my regular oxycodone instead.

I am screwed with my taper if I do find a source of the IR form, because then I will have both IR and ER oxymorph. To taper that would need self control of steel. I am trying to be as honest as possible here to see if that helps me avoid making a big mistake.
 
Wow - I'm sending much love and support to you two. I know I've said it before, but it's worth repeating, I have so much respect for people who can taper. You guys are doing awesome.

Poke, no need to feel any shame when talking about routes of administration. You are in good company. No one judges you and I think most of us have been there.

I went for my hike today and really worked up some brain zaps and sweat! It felt like shit every second. The only upside is that I've found a trail that is long and not well liked apparently. I can usually go without seeing too many people, just two or three the whole time. I don't need a gallery of people seeing me huffing and puffing up a hill.

I am wishing I was more educated on exercise and how hard I can push my body. Today I went faster and didn't stop as often as yesterday - but I had to stop abruptly when I thought I was going to throw up. I kept it all down, but it was close. I didn't want to lose all of the water and supplements I took before leaving home. Also, I'm not eating much still. I don't think I am getting more than 600-700 calories per day, and most of that is juice - so I'm afraid to really push it.

So, I'm suffering along with you guys, just not in the exact same way.

- VE
 
Hey VE good to hear from another struggler. Good luck with your withdrawal and thanks for the contribution. I wish I could go for a hike to get those endorphins going, but it would destroy my spine. Last time I went for a hike in the rockies I passed out from the pain after even with oxy. I have been doing 20min of yoga a day or so. Keep us posted. Oh there is truly no judgement here, even if you don't use for pain we know how addictive this shit is. It's not judgement at all, the more people the merrier really. It is great to connect with people who have the same addiction and are trying to get off it in similar ways. Not long ago I was sniffing dope and crushed up generic oxycontin in washrooms at work, before I was fired because I was still in withdrawal half the time.

I can see myself having huge issues with oxymorphone, there is probably no way I could control it. Oxycodone is the only one that will ever work for me because you don't start thinking about more efficient ways of using it other than orally. One bump and I am off to the races, no control, and if there is a higher bioavailability I am going to take advantage of it.

If you don't think you can handle that medication without regularly sniffing it, stay far away from it. Remember I was sniffing dope every day for a good couple years on top of my meds and I know how much more addictive that ROA is... it makes a really big difference regardless of bioavailability because the faster the high hits, the better it feels in my experience and the more reinforcing it is. I almost died on numerous occasions and got scared at my very shallow breathing combining really pure china white with benzos and a low tolerance to both. Heroin always worked so quickly and I think that's why it felt like pure euphoria, transcendental bliss and love for life... it is the speed of onset that gets me hooked. IR oxy kicks in slow as hell so even though that means more pain, it's better for me.

So I have righteously fucked myself over and it's time to stop, I had my fun with pills. I think tomorrow I might go straight to 40mg although it would really suck, I know I can do it. I have been at this with consistency for a long time. I am able to substitute a dose with a higher one and get high for a few hours and just carry on with my lower doses without regret. I've done this twice and I have no draw to continue since I know how fucking awful this sickness is... it's something that I will be doing once a week or so for sure because I need those times of total pain relief. It's awesome being in a lot more control like this but I could lose it really quickly.

edit... so the panic attacks started up. It has to be post acute withdrawal starting up. It's really not easy to deal with because I am already on benzos for panic disorder and it's like they aren't even working the anxiety is so horrendous. I am normally good with 2mg klonopin each day but I took 6mg yesterday and couldn't even feel it I was so anxious! I had a full blown panic attack last night, thought I was literally going to die, told my gf I loved her and that I might die, and had another one this morning. I also have other withdrawal symptoms coming back, so I'm almost certain that I'm panicking because of the oxy withdrawal. I am ashamed to say that I am crying right now. I've just never experienced that... maybe it's a later stage withdrawal effect? I once heard someone say, 'if you haven't got panic attacks yet, you will'

It has driven me crazy already and I might have to go back to 60mg where I was doing just fine but for now I am holding out because I want this bullshit over and done with, I just fuckin hate taking benzos when I have panic attacks as it is. Don't need that right now. At all. I have plenty of relaxation techniques but this anxiety is fucking extreme... why now dammit? My benzo use has actually been pretty decent throughout this.

Worst part for me is sitting around experiencing wasted time. I can't get over it when I am so distracted by negative physical sensations. All I can do is be patient and wait. There is so much that I want to be doing right now but I can barely take care of my personal hygiene. I'm going on a month. I'm getting sick and tired of this. I noticed that we're in October and it blew my mind.
 
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Well, I am back to my regular taper, with only that one extra dosage... so far. I did not sleep well last night... from 11:30pm -3am; and then 7:30-9:30 ish am. That is probably due to my ativan down to .25mg taken last night. I took it a bit early and I can see I need to take it later. I am feeling ok... I do have to call that new client to refer them out after all. They left me a voicemail stating they needed to change the time of our meeting.., this is the third time they want to re-schedule. No! I call bullshit.
Other than cravings for my oxymorph, right now I am experiencing no symptoms of w/d...I probably will tomorrow or Wednesday, b/c even that one extra dose this early in the tapering does have an effect most of the time.

I miss Squeaky as well... I titled this a supportive/social thread so that anyone can come here and post, not just those trying to taper. If you are feeling like hanging out here or want to be supportive, like VE... go for it.

Thank God there have been no little trolls here.....yet, lol. I really need to clean up some dishes and water the lawn today... I am thinking there is a good chance I will accomplish these goals.
 
Yeah that's true there hasn't really been any trolling. I am feeling better, smoked some joints. That helped a lot and changed the feeling of the hash I was on. Grounded me a little. Maybe because it is a heavy indica smoke. Maybe I will even be able to take a nap if I smoke a 3rd kingsize but is it ever getting hazy in here. I know I'm just talking shit I'm just useless in withdrawal, I'm watching a movie though. If I ever get my energy back.... will I ever be back with a vengeance.I have so much catching up to do.
I am taking 50mg again today because even that is pretty difficult for me with the anxiety at this point. I will do 40mg when I feel good again, so I'm going down by 10's. The anxiety is going to hit me again soon but what can I do. I am taking the painkillers for pain not anxiety. It will feel great to be free from the hold of them but it's taking a long time.
Then I have a million other problems to deal with.
 
Shroomy, since you're down so low, have you considered going down by 5s from here? If you went from 50 to 40, that's 20%! (Right? Someone please check my terrible math.) Just a thought; as we go lower and lower, our decrease needs to be in similar percentages.

And you're totally right about the act of sniffing. I NEVER sniff my oxycodones, because they are 90% effective orally. If you swallow an oxymorphone on an empty stomach, you feel NOTHING at all. I gave one to a friend who takes 15 mg oxycodones after a crazy strenuous hike just to see, and she felt zero effect.

We went camping this weekend, but it was SO cold, and the wind was insane. I slept maybe 8 hours over two nights. Coincidentally, I'm still at 20 mg, and I'm sure it's contributing. Here's the other thing: I'm on IR meds only, per suggestion of my surgeon, so I can only take it when I need it. Super fortunately, my back hasn't been bad this past week, making the drop easier. But I am waking up in the middle of the night in withdrawal. And so, I'm taking a dose I don't really need. Ugh. Again, this never happened when I was just taking oxycodones. I would sleep all night with no problems.

Poke, does the oxymorphone effect your sleep at all? I feel like I've had bags under my eyes for the last year.
 
Yep it's close to 20... 17% or so. Is that considered a lot? I don't know. I think it's likely common and much less disruptive to do 5 or 10% but I have to jump off this quick. It was getting bad, real bad. I keep typing the wrong words haha. I wrote back instead of bad. I could never get enough oxy and it would take forever to kick in, there would be no headspace or feeling to it anymore and very little pain relief and it wouldn't last.
I hope it is not this horrible for much longer. The two hours before dosing and the proceeding hour are absolutely horrendous. The rest of the time I'm mainly just low energy. I was feeling really good at 60mg for a few days in a row, like I was over it... I thought this was going to be easy since it is just dropping down 2 percocets daily, but it's not.
I guess if I think about it I used to get really high off half a perc. I'm paying the price for that now. For the longest time 5mg oxy's and 10mg doses did me really well and I would never go over that amount. So it would make sense that it doesn't seem like a big deal now that my tolerance is so high that I consider that dose really weak, but I have to think about getting back to where I once was. And I was really fucking high for a while so it will take a coupe weeks.
 
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Hi AnnaB, Welcome back! Sorry to hear about that wind... it is something that can affect sleep out in the wilds, that is for sure. I sent you an e-mail to answer your question about my sleep, as some of the information I am providing is not appropriate for the thread. I hope the information is helpful.

Yep, AnnaB is right... swallowing oxymorphone whole DOES NOTHING AT ALL; an aspirin has more effect. So, once you take them nasally, you are basically stuck with that ROA. So, until I get further along in my taper, I will have to "suck it up"... lol... how corny, right????
 
So, I just got off the phone with my elderly aunt... she is a survivor. She just had major surgery about a month ago, and because she hates feeling constipated, stopped all pain meds. She told me if I come and visit her, she has a bottle of vicodin for me. Now... I am a bit excited b/c she used to get them mail order, so a 90 day supply. I don't know if that is what she is talking about, or a bottle with 3 pills left over from the hospital stay.

They would be great to have to finish my taper with, as they are only 5mg. Also, b/c I hate the added medication to them, I would only use them as little as possible.
She does live out of state, though, so it involves travel, and right now, I am not in a good place, taper wise or knee pain wise to travel.

She does not know I take pain meds now; I used to get ONE 5mg pill when I would visit her in the past to help deal with my knee hurting after navigating airports, flying, etc., etc.
 
I def wouldn't pass those up but that's me. Maybe see how many there are first though because a small number is always super disappointing when that happens. I got some cough syrup with hydrocodone in it from a friend with a cold who is aware of my problem earlier this year, and it was freaking incredible.

I am getting so sick of this shit as it has been almost a month. I think a have some atrophy I don't look good from sitting around so much. Appetite was nothing today. I remember how good it was when I started feeling okay with 60mg and then even a little high. I should be like that with 50mg pretty soon but for some reason the symptoms are a little different and some of them worse. Especially the insomnia and anxiety. Maybe if I kept at 60mg I wouldn't have felt good every day anyway. It kind of seems like a roller coaster ride of symptoms. I
wasn't expecting very much but it has been really rough half the time. Fuck do I ever want an extra right now. I know it would even more heavenly than before because I'm just so sick of feeling like shit... and taking 20mg ir when I'm sick is such a great feeling. I might do it. Simply because this is too much for me with the panic attacks and I'm not gonna be taking a whole bunch of benzos to get off of percocet.
 
I think you are right about not passing them up. Even for the reason that pain meds as a whole are just so difficult to get these days... it would be nice to have them. I will try to find a way to ask her how many she has without being blunt, next time she calls.

So, you have been tapering a month... starting at the 120mg, was it? Now, definitely down to 60mg, and working on 50mg... that is not too slow of a taper, to me!

I guess I started this thread the end of August, and then it took quite some time to actually begin to change. I guess I am normal, according to the Stages of Change theory, that lists several comptemplation and pre-action stages, before one actually begins the behaviors associated with change. It is still not too terrible so I am willing to continue with it and take it slow. If/when my circumstances change, well then I will adjust accordingly. It is too bad that I am more motivated by fear than by positive emotions.
 
I'd probably drive 1000 miles if there was a bottle of pills waiting for me
We don't have vicodin in Canada but I was shocked when I was gifted pure hydrocodone syrup
You know it wasn't much but enough for opiated touch, avoiding withdrawal cuts it's a must for busts are common like a narc squad from having sheer lust

I took some extras today, I have enough left to stay at 60mg until I get refills and then I can drop to 50 then, easiest thing to do. So I am staying at 60 for the next 2 or 3 weeks and it will be much nicer that way. I was already feeling good off that amount before. My back really needs a rest from rushing around on the higher dose earlier. Will have to lay down. I felt good counting my pills and realizing that I have way enough to go back to 60mg. That's totally the thing to do then. Yay. 15mg is a hell of a lot better than 12.5
 
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lol, ^ if I was on my last several pills, I would flying out to see her, trust me! However, since I have been so mindful of my doses, I am ok right now and don't have that desperate feeling I know all too well.

Hey... is that a bit of a rap lyric up there^ Pretty cool... it is obvious your mind is waking up to its creativity as you decrease the amount of pills in your system!!

I had the most amazing sleep last night... 9 hours... midnight until 9am... I woke up two times to use the bathroom, but fell back to sleep immediately. I went grocery shopping at 10pm as I had nothing in the house, after tapering last week and losing my appetite, so had spaghetti and meat sauce around 11-11:30pm. That was the ticket to knocking me out! I feel like a real person today!

I can't believe that stopping most of the ativan,being I took .25mg again last night, all the flexeril, and the regulation of my opiate dosage daily at half of what I am prescribed (taking only my prescribe ER dosage and saving my prescribed IR dosages) could feel so amazing!!

I am going to hang out here at least today with a new goal - I am extending the time between dosages by 15 minutes.... since this is day by day for me, regarding moving forward with more of a taper, I am going to use this wonderful energy and clarity of mind to get some things done and figure some things out and yet, continue to make progress in my taper. I realized that if I could successfully move my dosages 15 more minutes apart, and continue to do that every week, I will have an hour longer between doses in a month. Do the math... I can suffer anything for 15 minutes, although today there was barely a flutter of w/d symptoms for a minute. One of my sub goals is to be as kind and gentle to myself as possible (thanks toothepastedog... you recommended that elsewhere on BL) while de-toxifying my body. This is so different from the harsh all or nothing of how I treated myself in the past, how recovery is done in many 12 step rooms, or at least encouraged to be done. Tapering is just so much less shocking to the body, and I read one place where it causes less mental distress overall as we give our bodies time to adjust. I am not waging war on my body... just on the part of me that is addicted. And that war can be won in many ways, and I choose not to harm myself while ridding myself of my addiction. I have not felt so much happiness and hope in quite some time!

For me, recovery is a marathon, not a sprint. I don't need to be clean tomorrow... I need to feel well, manage my pain, and have a quality life while I have a daily practice of harm reduction around my usage of my prescription drugs. I feel so less numb, so less flat, and also my pain is almost gone. I am actually going to look for some of my past handouts from physical therapy and see if I can begin to work on my knee issues myself, since I have all the exercise equipment here at home- those resistance bands, light and medium weights, as well as other stuff.
 
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That is an interesting approach, increasing the time between doses. I like a consistent schedule but the dose drops can be difficult depending on what type of pills are on hand. I am feeling an incredible sleep coming on, I have not had a good sleep in ages.

Well today was great, no pain and I kept busy pretty much non-stop. Both physically and mentally. I am keeping at my 60mg daily dose for a long while because I feel pretty good with that. I know in my heart it is the right thing to do rather than continue to suffer because some of the physical sensations were alarming. I felt wasted and malnourished. I made delicious crepes with quinoa flour and chives today with good old maple syrup, and also a yummy shrimp pasta with orange habaneros from the garden and so much fresh basil. I kept busy cleaning for hours as well. I just did way more today because I upped my dose a bit.

Overall, this seems to be winding down for the time being. I spent a good 4 weeks fighting this and lowering my tolerance, so now I am going to enjoy this lower tolerance a bit and not go any further for now because I was running into trouble with instability. If that was the second time I messed up 50mg I just can't do it yet. I mean, I just got to 60 last week so it's not a surprise. The negative symptoms were really wearing my body out after that much time and I definitely knew I should have stayed at 60mg before going any lower. It's just not as easy as walking to the pharmacy and buying some extras though. I feel like after a good long rest of healthy living, and further distancing myself from those much higher doses, will make going straight to 50mg or even 40 way easier.
 
Yay! Poke and Shroomy are still plugging along. I just love coming to the taper thread to hear about your progress!

Shroomy - I have been meaning to ask - this "hash oil" you speak of, is it the same thing that we have here in the states that we call "eddibles?" Just high concentration THC oil? Or is hash oil different somehow? I've been eating eddibles every day at night to try and help me sleep. So far, it's not helping a lot with the sleep, but does help in general. Also, since my chronic pain condition is inflammation based, I tell myself it helps my inflammation. But it does give me a mood boost for a few hours a day and some relief from the grind. Can you buy yours at the store like we can (some of us anyway), or do you have to get it from someone?

Poke - I think adding 15 minutes to your dosing time is a great idea! Any little edge you can give yourself will be helpful in the end. How's your daughter? Recovered from the stomach flu?

- VE
 
Cannabis concentrates. Shatter, crumble, wax... that kind of thing. I am a dabbing fanatic. I don't really like smoking or edibles because I am crazy about dabbing the oil, but I will smoke a little bong. I always vaporize the oil on a nail with my rig. Yep it's popular here socially accepted but way more people still smoke weed.
I use live resin in particular which is processed from fresh whole plants before they are dried. I take low temperature dabs to preserve the terpenes and medicinal compounds in general. It generally helps with the withdrawal, especially cravings and nausea, but I do not see myself stopping something I enjoy so thoroughly.

I recently heard about topical creams containing cannabinoids. Apparently I could rub them on my spine where the pain is, and it might help with inflammation. It's probably worth experimenting with actually, it is rare but obtainable. Probably wouldn't be too hard to make. I'm still looking for a better anti-inflammatory. There is not one that they prescribed me that I would accept anymore. They seemed like placebo poisons, all of them. I have settled on a combination of natural things for that, especially turmeric. Turmeric is a good anti-inflammatory particularly when taken with black pepper. I find the dabs still mainly chill me out like weed does, it is not so much for pain reduction in my case but for stress. The only thing that has ever helped my pain so much as 15% is the oxy or some other opiate/opioid.

Yep 60mg is a good dose to be on for me. It is still major progress for sure regardless of whatever dose doctors think I should be on after talking to me for two minutes. I really gotta stay off the dope that's what I do have cravings for even after months. It hasn't been long since I was doing that and it's way worse than any amount of oxy. Thinking about it like sets off a chain of reactions or something. Now that I know I have the pills to do it though, 50mg was just nonsense how much I was torturing myself. Back to 60, much better now.
 
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There was definitely a lot of good things about this thread those that are struggling your definitely not alone. I have been through all aspects of the process. I did figure out one thing you can decide how sick you want to be it can be very painless with several things that are as far as I'm concerned a must have for taper wd symptoms a very good sleep med your body is so much better off with sleep, fluids and making yourself eat. Good herb, and shatter until you make yourself. Releasing any dopamine naturally that you can will for sure help. I firmly believe that some of the wd symptoms we all create a little extra drama in our own minds by not being able to stop thinking about what's going to happen or anticipating past symptoms. That was my biggest issue after a 9 month fent binge. Putting myself into precipitated wd once . As far as anxiety you don't want to be dependent on those meds been there 2-3 weeks of balance,light headedness depth perception weird and just over all unpleasant. I think for me I made a decision and stuck to it waited until I was 100% free of opiates and couldn't take anymore of the wd around 52hours after my last dose only take a small enough amount of say subs to make you feel better I don't think you need to go so high with MG dose of your transition drug and then waiting until you start feeling sick again or 24hrs later I took maybe 3,4mg 2 days in a row so I could function and work but anticipating the torture but it never came back. Slowly wd symptoms fall off over time some take a while. My energy level and mental well that's the hardest part I think.
 
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