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Bupe Tramadol and Suboxone

is ULTRAM Cross Tolerant with bupe/other opiates?, im asking cuz i take 20mg bupe daily and wondering if even taking my tramadol would be a benefit due to my tolerance (i know u can mix them, but does tramadol have its own set of effects despite any other opiate tolerance?
 
WOW! i seen my suboxone doctor today, got my script, went to fill it, my insurance company denied it because i needed authorization from my sub doc because "tramadol" popped up as a interaction with suboxone..my doc found out, i went back to his office, he was PISSED i didnt tell him i got meds from another doctor, part of the contract is to tell him immediately if i get meds from other docs, plus "tramdol" was on the list of drugs to abstain for suboxone treatment, ALMOST KICKED ME OUT of hs program, but is gonna work on over riding this issue, so i gott wait till tomorrow to fill my suboxone while he does the paperwork. i explained to him that my primary KNEW im on suboxone, and that i was offered lortab 7.5 for a toothache, i declined and the DR gave me a non narcotic "tramadol" i explained. but my DOC isnt stupi, this is my 15th chance with him from fucking up. he was slamming chairs, yelling at me, and said one more mess up im through..i dont understand it...why the FUCK did the pharmacist fill the tramadol knowing i was on suboxone 2wks ago? but when i fill my suboxone my insurance company has some huge issue with tramadol #120 a month with suboxone and denied me, but my sub doc is taking care of it...over riding it..so my question is can i still refill my tramadol since he is over riding it and letting me fill my suboxone? gotta be more careful now, i mean ultram causes no precip w/d, or interactions..but i guess the main concern is on my suboxone contract to abstain from "tramadol" which was on the list...agh whatever
 
I think Bluelight has become addicted to Tramadol. So Bluelight, start with 10 posts about Tramadol a day for two days, then decrease the amount of posts about Tramadol by one every other day. In about two weeks Bluelight should be Trammy Free! Careful, dont relapse. We cant have people sneeking Tramadol into Bluelight. There's enough of it here for a year of reading.
 
opiatekrzy said:
is ULTRAM Cross Tolerant with bupe/other opiates?, im asking cuz i take 20mg bupe daily and wondering if even taking my tramadol would be a benefit due to my tolerance (i know u can mix them, but does tramadol have its own set of effects despite any other opiate tolerance?
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tramadol has seretonergic effects as well an nor-epinephrine. there will be cross tolerance but a lot of people have success using tramadol on top of bupe fot pain management. i've been one of those people in the past.
 
BingeBoy said:
^
the enzyme that converts bupe to norbuprenorphine is cyp2d6

tramadol competes for it to be metabolzied into m1 so i doubt that it will influence bupe metabolization in a positive way


note m1 and norbuprenorphine (which is a full mu agonist) are both beat by buprenorphine at the receptor binding contest , however i think we haven't found out everything about these substances and how they interact , just like with codeine and morphine how it was discovered that codeine-6-glucoronide a ctually plays a big role in the analgesia/opiate effects
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This is incorrect. The enyzme is CYP 3A4 bup -> norbup
 
People people.

There are no negative effects when taking mu agonists while buprenorphine is in the blood/brain. Bupe will antagonize the other opioids. High concentrations of full mu agonists can displace bupe however. I don't understand why people think taking them together will cause WD.

WITHDRAWAL happens when buprenorphine is taken while full agonists are in the blood/brain.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!

Please note: Suboxone or buprenorphine products can help in overdose cases!
 
8 days ago I started sub w/d. I got to day 5 and started taking subs again for 3 days. Now Im on day 1 again w/ no sub and am waiting to start the w/d's....hoping that I didnt make it worse for myself. Anyway...to answer your question. I had a bottle of tylenol 3's and tramadol's...hoping they would ease my w/d symptoms through the process. I took the t3's throughout the day on day 3,4,and 5. I also took 2 tramadols on the 5th day. They didnt really help btw....but I took a 1/4 of a sub on the 5th day, only 4 hours after my last t3 and tramadol. I spent 30 minutes in fear of precipitated w/d, but it never came. So you will be fine. I did it 1 other time as well w/ the tramadol and I was fine. This is after a year of being on subs....so its not like I had a low amount in my system. In total I would say I took about 10 T3's and 5-6 tramadol in a 3 day period. But I knw for a fact that it was exactly 4 hours after taking an opiate when I took the sub. Im just surprised that tramadol didnt help with my w/d. I figured it would at least help me sleep. Im wondering if anyone has had any success trying this method?? Im just kicking myself for going back on the subs after making it 5 days. If i would've hung on for another 2-3 days I would have been in the clear. But Im an addict and thats just the way it goes. I flushed the remainder of my subs and I no longer have a choice.
 
hydrochron said:
How about some "Bromodal" and suboxone. LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromadol

I would be interested to try the new tramadol. "Tapentadol", is anyone here prescribed it? How dumb that they made is schedule 2. It should be schedule 4, or unscheduled.
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yeah, it sucks.

On another note, I picked up my car from the shop today and within 5 miles I had thrown a rod and blown the head gasket. (goes in OK, comes out busted as fuck) and the tramadol script I have from a long time ago is really coming in handy for some opiated relief even though I'm on suboxone.
 
luv tramadol

Cookie1456 said:
It seems like some people love it and others hate it, I have to try it sometime.
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I get an awsome buzz on tramadol! after eatin 10( or more) my house is clean n im nodding off into a Deep n peaceful slumber! words of wisdom, don't go to bed with a joe burnin n don't take 10, unless u kno u can handle it... been takin em for 20 yrs
 
Just curious, what is the highest dose anyone here has taken? And were you taking anti-convulsants co-comittant with the dose? (valium, xanax, pregabalin, gabapentin, barbituates, etc..)

I have gone to 800mg without having a seizure, but was taking probably 3-600mg of lyrica and 20-40mg of Valium with it. I WOULD HIGHLY ADVISE ANYONE READING THIS TO NOT EXCEED 400mg PER DAY, let alone per dose.
that said, I want to hear some experiences with this.

and to my earlier question - does the M1 metabolite sneak through the bupe blockade, does it synergize, or is it simply the SNRI/ SSRI activity in combination with the bupe?
 
Does Suboxone cause Precipitated Withdrawals from Tramadol?

After a few months sobriety, I took tramadol for six days. I barely know why - I don't even like the stuff.

I have one 2mg suboxone pill from a few months back and plan on taking it tomorrow morning before work to stave of the tiny bit of withdrawals even a few days of use can give me.

I know normally you have to wait until you're in withdrawal to take suboxone, but I know tramadol acts differently than other opiates and is active even if you're on bupe.

I've seen people say that they can take the two of them together no problem, but I have yet to see a specific report where someone said they were on tramadol for a regular period and then took bupe without any waiting time.

Would it cause precipitated withdrawals, or have no effect?

Thanks for the help, mangs!
 
I did use the search engine.

Yes, it has been extensively covered that people can take one or both, but one of the threads had a person saying they did experience precipitated withdrawals from suboxone while on tramadol, so that had me confused.

But I'll check out the link now. Thanks.
 
And I can now confirm that no, suboxone doesn't cause precipitated withdrawals with tramadol. I just took 2mg of sub 4 hours after my last dose of tram (300mg) and there were no problems.
 
^thanks... for the record, that just confirms one person didn't experience this, not that its impossible. I'm not saying tramadol can or will cause it, just that one experience is not enough to extrapolate a general principle for everyone.

Buprenorphine taken after tramadol is exceedingly unlikely to cause precipitated withdrawal after tramadol because tramadol has very, very low binding affinity for the mu receptors (don't quote me but I want to say 1/32nd of morphine's... either way, its low) so I don't foresee most people being able to feel the tramadol being exported from those receptors.
 
I'm very sensitive to bupe's ability to send you into withdrawal and I haven't had a problem using tramadol within six hours of dosing bupe. Strangely enough fentanyl, which is said to have a very short halflife, gives me fits while trying to get my sub dosing down. Sometimes I get precip wd 48 hours after dosing fent buccally. So yeah, if I can do it, most people should be okay.
 
I have experienced what I believe to be precipitated withdrawal from tramadol. Here is some valuable info on the matter:

I have only experienced what I assumed to be some form of precipitated withdrawal from IV suboxone, subutex does not give this feeling which makes me believe that it is the naloxone that gives this weird feeling. It is not a full blown precipitated withdrawal, but it is not placebo either.
 
has anyone experienced tramadol causing precipitated withdrawal
if it is taken after a full agonist like oxycodone? it also seems to kill my high instead of potentiating.
 
^Precipitated withdrawal is caused by a mixed agonist-antagonist (such as buprenorphine) or a full antagonist (such as naloxone or naltrexone) having stronger binding affinity than a full antagonist that someone is physically dependent on and that is also currently attached to their mu opioid receptors. The mixed agonist-antagonist or antagonist overpowers the full AGONIST, displacing it off the receptors precipitating withdrawal.

Tramadol and oxycodone are both agonists so neither one can cause precipitated withdrawal, furthermore (as I said above), tramadol has very weak mu opioid receptor binding affinity. Most people likely experience some slight synergy from combining tramadol with a drug such as oxycodone but I suspect that is as much or more due to SNRI activity rather than tramadol's weak opioidergic effects.

I'm guessing it 'killing your high' has something to do with the stimulant effect counteracting the sedative ones from other opioid agonists but I'm just speculating.
 
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