Misc Tianeptine "Gas station heroin" (questions)

[negrogesic]

Similar to oxycodone perhaps in addiction potential, which is to say, extremely high.

 

[Zephyn]

I impulsed and bought a bottle of some shitty company who sells tianeptine supplements from a kratom shop. Was a little worried of winding up on a binge early on in my recovery, so I figured this was an alternative without investing in a ton of stock. From reading online, each capsule contains roughly 50mg of tianeptine. Took 5, waited an hour, felt nothing. Took the remaining 10 and I've got a mild opiate like buzz, reminiscent of kratom but with a more traditional effect. Certainly don't find it very fiendish. Must be prepared with the salt type that is like the delayed release.

 

[Zephyn]

I could see how it might be fiendish if I had a bunch of pure powder actually, as i just came up and its already wearing off.

 

[Zephyn]

Yeah I'd probably put it up there with heroin due to the short half-life and effects. This is from a single use though. Even a single use of heroin wouldn't cause a craving for more this fast. Id say its more addictive than oxycodone, but less so than heroin, at least in an immediate sense. This stuff could be a recipe for disaster for people that can't stop using opiates.

 

[SKL]

Don't IV this stuff. Not only is it caustic as someone mentioned—you can feel it as you inject, it's a warm sensation like getting propofol for anesthesia—it doesn't dissolve properly in water (the volume of water in a syringe, anyway), so even if the shot looks well dissolved (it may actually look milky) there are still a lot of particles floating around. I don't need to say how dangerous this is. Missed shots are also very painful and ugly.

 

[Zephyn]

wound up with a nice metabolite that gave me a nod, but this stuff has a horrid come down, jesus christ, ive felt like utter shit physically and mentally for hours

 

[Freudzilla]

I went through 5 grams of this stuff several years ago. I remember mixing it with phenibut increased the nodding effect quite a lot but I remember my doses weren’t that high 150mg to 1.5G phenibut ..it wasn’t extremely fiendy as far I remember but stimulants and such were my fix at the time. Only recently have I gotten more into opiates/opioids and benzos/downers been meaning to revisit it as opioids have proven quite difficult to acquire a prescription for.

 

[Zephyn]

Not worth it at all. Still feel something slimy in my body next day, feel like I binged on stimulants for a week. Never before have I had such a crash from an opioid

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

Probably not a bad thing then. Some people find Tianeptine to be quite enjoyable and don't experience much unpleasant side effects. I've known too many like this who have fallen victim, Then it often doesn't take long until they are taking 5g of Tianeptine sodium or more a day. For example, I have friends using over 10g a day.The withdrawals from such high amounts is just god awful and crazy intense...

 

[negrogesic]

Not worth it at all. Still feel something slimy in my body next day, feel like I binged on stimulants for a week. Never before have I had such a crash from an opioid

I never experienced that. In fact I've felt the opposite. The next day, after taking say a gram during the previous day, feels great.

Tianeptine is short lasting but if you take a giant dose the body struggles to get it out of you and it can be felt for 24 hours.

I can't sleep for shit right after taking tianeptine but 12 hours after taking a giant dose I sleep like a baby.

However either something in me changed or the tianeptine synthesis quality changed (or likely, both), because these days I don't get any of the magic I used to get from tianeptine. Just sort of an edgy, dirty high and a ton of side-effects (nausea). Each time i try it again these days I tell myself, "this is the last time I'll ever buy this again". The problem is, when it comes to drugs, the mind seems to remember the good and forget the bad.

 

[4meSM]

However either something in me changed or the tianeptine synthesis quality changed (or likely, both), because these days I don't get any of the magic I used to get from tianeptine. Just sort of an edgy, dirty high and a ton of side-effects (nausea).

Is it normally sold as a mixture of enantiomers? Maybe only one enantiomer is responsible for the good effects?

I quickly glanced through a Chinese patent regarding its synthesis and didn't see any mention of chirality.
Although it seems like the enantiomeric ratio would be highly dependent on the optical purity of main precursor.
So maybe something did change, or it could be perma-tolerance.

I'll probably never tried tianeptine unless it somehow falls on my lap or someone gives it to me as a gift.

 

[negrogesic]

Is it normally sold as a mixture of enantiomers? Maybe only one enantiomer is responsible for the good effects?

I quickly glanced through a Chinese patent regarding its synthesis and didn't see any mention of chirality.
Although it seems like the enantiomeric ratio would be highly dependent on the optical purity of main precursor.
So maybe something did change, or it could be perma-tolerance.

I'll probably never tried tianeptine unless it somehow falls on my lap or someone gives it to me as a gift.

I always assumed it was sold as a racemate but that definitely is a functional of the starting material. I would imagine that there are likely profound differences in the effects of the + and - enantiomers. One of those is probably more opioidergic than the other, maybe the (-) enantiomer?

 

[drewbocop]

I tried it at 12mg (therapeutic dose) and then 150mg oral. Both doses produced significant irritability leading to frustration and depression. 150mg had opioid effects however gave me some scary CEVs. Laying in bed I kept seeing an angry man repeatedly reaching for my throat trying to choke me. It was disturbing.

Tossed it after that with no desire to use it again.

Sounds like the kind of bizarre reactions I have to certain drugs. Irritability, anger, etc. I've been avoiding tianeptine like the plague for years as it will ruin the love of my life (kratom) and give me yet another substance to kick. Thanks for this information, it only adds to my determination.

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

The problem is, when it comes to drugs, the mind seems to remember the good and forget the bad.

Truer words have never been spoken. Even being fully aware of this my mind still manages to trick me, or I just let it trick me...

And then there is the whole thought of "it'll be different this time" (HA!) even though it was exactly the same all 57 previous times and I had thought it would somehow be different before each of those times as well

Something something the definition of insanity

My god I'm pathetic (and the kicker) currently hooked on Tianeptine as well

 

[negrogesic]

Truer words have never been spoken. Even being fully aware of this my mind still manages to trick me, or I just let it trick me...

And then there is the whole thought of "it'll be different this time" (HA!) even though it was exactly the same all 57 previous times and I had thought it would somehow be different before each of those times as well

Something something the definition of insanity

My god I'm pathetic (and the kicker) currently hooked on Tianeptine as well

At what dose/day? Sodium?

 

[MDPV_Psychosis]

At what dose/day? Sodium?

FWIW, I am a long term opioid addict going on 20ish years since discovering them. Of those 20 years, 15 of them were spent locked in physical/mental dependency. All sorts of the usual pharmaceuticals, plus some time on poppy pods, kratom, short while on low dose methadone and a couple years on buprenorphine which I then finally managed properly taper and then got clean for a couple years.

Then I fucked up: tried Tianeptine and allowed myself to go with it. Just had a 'fuck it' attitude and knew exactly what I was getting myself into.

Been on Tianeptine daily now going on seven years. For quite awhile in the beginning was using 3-4g sodium per day. Eventually realized it was not sustainable, switched to FA and then tapered down. Got all the way down to somewhere around only 200-300mg per day and maintained it for months.

I could have easily quit at that point (and should have) but wasn't ready to I guess. Since then my use has fluctuated. I let things slide and work my way back up to like 1-2g of FA per day then spend weeks/months tapering back down to like 500mg or whatever. Then I slide again, taper down, slide, etc.

I'm tired of it and finally ready to stop. Have been tapering since the beginning of the year, currently getting by on 800mg FA per day. I've been on it so long now that I've found that tapering too quickly really fucks with me. So I am going very slow and steady. My plan is to get as low as possible by summer then stop finallly. Maybe a very short taper (just a couple of days max) with low dose bupe if needed.

Mostly I'm worried about an enduring an extended period of paws after so many years of daily use combined with my already long history of opioid use.

 

[JackARoe]

I've been avoiding tianeptine like the plague for years as it will ruin the love of my life (kratom) and give me yet another substance to kick. Thanks for this information, it only adds to my determination.

Agreed. I read the threads and honestly @MDPV_Psychosis (thanks for posting, you helped me avoid this) was the one person deciding factor in me ust leaving it alone and not ordering any. Though the years I have been on opiates of some sort. Life got better on poppy tea, after heroin and methadone, when the balance allowed me to function. And the fact I can now remain ok on an amount of kratom in the morning and late afternoon means I got the balance as far under control as I could and I don't want to ruin that with a substance that could screw with kratom tolerance. Kratom is enough for now after a life of imbalance. I thank it everyday. It has been more forgiving than anything else in my life. If I did not get my poppy tea I could barely get out of bed and lived in a nightmare. If I don't get my kratom I get a little chill, little restless than can be quelled by cannabis. lol

So yeah, more harm reduction here at BL. drewbocop and I made a good decision base off of others experience. I think it is fine to maintain on an opiate and to do that the tolerance factor has to be looked at. Seems tianeptine can steam roll kratom like poppy tea could and kick up the tolerance.

 

[negrogesic]

FWIW, I am a long term opioid addict going on 20ish years since discovering them. Of those 20 years, 15 of them were spent locked in physical/mental dependency. All sorts of the usual pharmaceuticals, plus some time on poppy pods, kratom, short while on low dose methadone and a couple years on buprenorphine which I then finally managed properly taper and then got clean for a couple years.

Then I fucked up: tried Tianeptine and allowed myself to go with it. Just had a 'fuck it' attitude and knew exactly what I was getting myself into.

Been on Tianeptine daily now going on seven years. For quite awhile in the beginning was using 3-4g sodium per day. Eventually realized it was not sustainable, switched to FA and then tapered down. Got all the way down to somewhere around only 200-300mg per day and maintained it for months.

I could have easily quit at that point (and should have) but wasn't ready to I guess. Since then my use has fluctuated. I let things slide and work my way back up to like 1-2g of FA per day then spend weeks/months tapering back down to like 500mg or whatever. Then I slide again, taper down, slide, etc.

I'm tired of it and finally ready to stop. Have been tapering since the beginning of the year, currently getting by on 800mg FA per day. I've been on it so long now that I've found that tapering too quickly really fucks with me. So I am going very slow and steady. My plan is to get as low as possible by summer then stop finallly. Maybe a very short taper (just a couple of days max) with low dose bupe if needed.

Mostly I'm worried about an enduring an extended period of paws after so many years of daily use combined with my already long history of opioid use.

Dang. I never got to much more than 2g a day at most then tapered down and quit.

As someone who has been using it for years have you noticed a shift in quality? The sodium from 2016 and 2017 seems much different than the sodium available these days. It seems less euphoric and with far more side-effects. Do you notice this? It might be just me.

 

[tarman]

Is sulfate better than sodium? Which one is... better/safer?

 

[negrogesic]

Is sulfate better than sodium? Which one is... better/safer

Sodium is the recreational one due to speed of onset. Neither is safer (they both are pretty safe inherently but should be avoided due to addiction potential).