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Opioids The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread

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Sorry for double posting, but what are peoples opinions on possible potentiation of some effects of methadone, with atypical anti-psychotics, particularly Olanzapine/Zyprexa?
My personal experience is that olanzapine reduces the euphoria of pretty much every drug (legal and illegal) known to man. However it might also reduce some negative effects of drugs as well, mainly anxiety or psychotic based ones.
Anyway, technically Olanzapine may increase certain effects of meth, such as drowsiness or sedation, but I find it hard to believe that it doesn't also reduce some of the euphoria that people experience as well.
Anyone have any opinions?
 
Sorry for double posting, but what are peoples opinions on possible potentiation of some effects of methadone, with atypical anti-psychotics, particularly Olanzapine/Zyprexa?
My personal experience is that olanzapine reduces the euphoria of pretty much every drug (legal and illegal) known to man. However it might also reduce some negative effects of drugs as well, mainly anxiety or psychotic based ones.
Anyway, technically Olanzapine may increase certain effects of meth, such as drowsiness or sedation, but I find it hard to believe that it doesn't also reduce some of the euphoria that people experience as well.
Anyone have any opinions?

Please go back and read the first few pages where all the opiates and benzos are quoted and have lists of potentiators under them. Lacy K , GM and a few other people made a super cool list. Cats claw potentiates methadone, GFJ works, tangament and tonic water did not work for me. All your answers would be answered if you just spend some time to read its what the sitcky is for ;)
 
so when do you drink the gf juice? before, during, after? for hydrocodone based cough syrup Hycodan that is.......
 
I have great success with tonic water containing quinine. My usual routine for ingesting codeine is to take 50mg of diphenhydramine (Benadryl) and 1 gel capsule of Alka Seltzer Plus Night Time Cold about 30 minutes before taking the codeine and drink ~ a liter of tonic during the experience. This combination greatly increases the effects I achieve from codeine, though I am not sure how it may interact with other opiate-like drugs.
From opiods.org:"Quinine and quinidine accentuate the buzz of opiates but only directly help with codeine metabolism by boosting the amount changed into morphine. Tagamet and grapefruit juice will weaken codeine substantially. The prescription antihistamine promethazine (Phenergan) helps out codeine even more, and is found with codeine in the Schedule V cough syrup Phenergan VC With Codeine. Quinine will tend to have its effect without impairing hydrocodone but does seem to burn off the buzz more quickly and may flatten the dose-to-response curve."

???
 
I was wondering what the best potentiator for oxycodone was, and then I started thinking that for each opiate drug it may be different and i thought, hey why not make it a thread that people could look up all their information in, and not just oxy.

I saw a lot of potentiation threads when I searched but, none of them had much information in them and most of them were specific to one drug.

but with everyones help, this thread could be a list of the best substance to potentiate each opiate.

So, what potentiates each drug, and what would you say is the BEST option to potentiate that drug?

By potentiating, I mean a substance that when combined with the opiate, has a synergy effect and boosts the high thru chemical interaction. you could say alcohol potentiates , in the way that it makes you feel more fucked up, but I dont believe that it works the same way as say Benadryl does to interact with the opiate and increase the high.

So with that said...What potentiates:

CODEINE

Grapefruit juice (fresh works best, do not use sweetened grapefruit drinks you need the straight juice)
-Diphenhydramine (Benadryl)
-Promethazine (Phenergan) - Take after administering codeine, high will be shortened if taken before
-Orphenadrine
-Cyclobenzaprine
-Doxylamine Succinate (Active ingredient in NyQuil)

HYDROCODONE
-Grapefruit juice
-Diphenhydramine
-Orphenadrine
-Doxylamine Succinate

[???
 
Does anyone have any more definates for methadone except for Cat's Claw? It is somewhat different to many opioids so presumably what might work for some might not work for methadone.
So far, I have found 10mg Diazepam to be the most effective I have tried. There is a definate synergy between the 2. I didn't really notice any buzz from the diazepam, just a noticeable increase in the effectiveness of the methadone. It lasted SWIM all day, rather than just a few hours. GFJ was also consumed (as always).
Took 100mg hydroxyzine today, hard to really tell much difference overall, although I've felt alright for most of the day.
AFA GFJ goes, is it true that one should use WHITE rather than PINK? I'd personally be surprised if it was the case, but have often seen references to WHITE GFJ.
 
jamesjones: Grapefruit juice and tagamet will inhibit CYP2D6 to some extent, and that's the enzyme that metabolizes codeine into morphine.

However, for what it's worth I used grapefruit juice with codeine for a while and noticed no decrease in effects. However I tend to get a lot out of codeine which may be a factor. Also, tagamet may be different; I don't know as it's Rx only here in Oz.
 
Can Rolls or anyone else expand on why its white and notpink GFJ that should be used? Also, should drinking a lot of fruit juice/smoothies be avoided on methadone because of high Vitamin C content?
As regards Hydroxyzine and Methadone, can anyone explain why as much as 100mg Hydroxy did very little for my 30mg Meth? Another thread on this forum claims that potency will be increased by 50%. This did not seem to be the case. I took 100mg at about the same time as my meth. Is that the right way to do it?
 
Why White and Not Pink

White grapefruits are high in the flavinids you want, the red have little to none. And, the fresher the fruit, the better.
 
Can Rolls or anyone else expand on why its white and notpink GFJ that should be used? Also, should drinking a lot of fruit juice/smoothies be avoided on methadone because of high Vitamin C content?
As regards Hydroxyzine and Methadone, can anyone explain why as much as 100mg Hydroxy did very little for my 30mg Meth? Another thread on this forum claims that potency will be increased by 50%. This did not seem to be the case. I took 100mg at about the same time as my meth. Is that the right way to do it?


As the poster above me noted, white grapefruits have the substances you want whilst red grapefruits do not or in not a high enough concentration.

And that claim about hydroxyzine potentiating it by 50% is bullshit. It has a synergistic effect, by adding to the sedation, and will also reduce the histamine reaction. What exactly did it do for you? You were quite possibly expecting too much.
 
Thanks to you both for the GFJ. I've nearly ALWAYS used pink, which has probably been doing nothing much! It just seems easier to come by where I live.
AFA the hydroxyzine, it did very little, if anything, to me at all Mr Blonde. I didn't even notice much of an increase in sedation. The 50% claim originated from ColdWaterWorld, I think, but it did say in the leaflet I got with them that they're a narcotic potentiator. I was very disappointed as I was expecting something noticable at least. When taking 10mg Diazapam with Methadone, i get a very noticable effect.
I've read in this thread that Cat's Claw works well with Methadone. The only person who mentioned a direct experience of the combination, suggested 300mg, 1 hour before, followed by 200mg, 1 hour after. I have 500mg capsules, should they be taken before, after or at the same time, and how much should I take?
 
^ Cat's Claw? No idea. I'd go with the advice you've gotten off whoever has actually tried it.
 
While I have your attention Mr Blonde, could you explain to me why 400mg Tagamet, taken 1 hour before Methadone dose, did nothing for me? Out of desperation I took another 400mg about 2 and a half hours after the methadone, but this also seemed to do nothing.
Is there anything else one should do when using tagamet/cimitedine to potentiate Meth? Would raising the dose above 400mg help? Is taking GFJ with it a waste of time?
I know that it mainly prolongs the effects of methadone, but if anything I felt even less than I usually do. Peculiar.
 
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How long should I wait to take my methadone(150mg) before taking cimetidine?
I remember buying 3 huge bottles of "Cat's Claw" from GNC and I was disappointed with the results. Cimetidine(Tagment) seems to work for me but I never know the right time to take it?

And when is a good time to take Xanax in relation to Methadone?
 
How long should I wait to take my methadone(150mg) before taking cimetidine?
I remember buying 3 huge bottles of "Cat's Claw" from GNC and I was disappointed with the results. Cimetidine(Tagment) seems to work for me but I never know the right time to take it?

And when is a good time to take Xanax in relation to Methadone?

I think you mean the other way around, you gotta take the cimetidine before the methadone. And its best to take the methadone about 45 min to an hour after the cimetidine, it gives the Tagamet enough time to work its potentiating magick.
 
Sorry if this has been asked already, I don't have time to read the entire thread; Is cimetidine available in Canada as well(What's the brand name?) or just the states?
 
Its not good to potentiate your methadone maintenance with benzos, could lead to Overdose, im sure wiggi would have something to say about that.
 
does promethazine (25mg pills) potentiate morphine (60mg pills - oral or insufflated) like the way it does with the codeine/hydrocodone syrups?
 
I think that people are getting confused because they are thinking of different things when they talk of "potentiation". Really, there are three separate things that we are confusing with each other, name; Potentiation: Increased Bioavailablity; lastly, Inhibition of Metabolism/Drug Accumulation.

Potentiation occurs when two drugs work synergistically (or additively) with each other, acting in unique ways to increase the total effect, resulting in a higher effect than what you would get if you added the result of using each seperately. I never really thought of combing other drugs with opiates as potentiation, rather, the opiate should just always be there, and then I mixed in various drugs as I got my hands on them, etc. I guess one good (great) potentiator is benzodiazepines. I know this field as I used to collect and sample them like delicacies when I used to be a pharmacist. I was always partial to chlordiazepoxide (note - methadone with benzo's can be very dangerious - benzo's are usually invovled in most methadone overdoses, and usually have caused respiratory depression.)
Marijuana is very good, as is DXM, ketamine. Some people use stimulants , cocaine/crack, meth, or hallucinogens such as psilocybin. I guess the question you need to answer first is what is about opiates you want to potentiate.

NO SIMPLE ANSWERS Drugs which in inhibit the metabolism of opiates (such as cimetidine, many SSRI's, some antifungals, etc - are generally inhibitors of cytochrome P450 isoenzymes in the liver (and there are as many types of these as you can count)). The list of these interactions is large and can be complicated and I won't go into it here as it is available in many other sources/references.

One class of drugs commonly encountered is SSRI's class of antidepressants. Several of these drugs inhibit various and sundry different P450 enzymes - different SSRI's inhibit different enzymes, and different enzymes are responsible for the metabolism of different opiates. Consult such a table for specific details. I know that for methadone, each of fluvoxamine, fluoxetine, and sertraline can inhibit the metabolism of methadone by inhibition of various P450 isoenzymes. When the metabolism of drugs is inhibited in the liver (and/or the gut, drug levels can increase in two ways. Increased availability, and decreased elimination

Increased Bioavailability - Drugs taken orally that are usually metabolized extensively by first past metabolism in the liver (or gut) during absorption, can have sudden, possible large, increases in bioavailability if the enzyme responsible for its metobolism is inhibited. When grapefruit juice is drunk before (about an hour) taking a dose of methadone, the amount of methadone absorbed can increase between 5 to 15, sometimes even up to 30%. This is the equivalent of taking an additional 5 to 15% methadone. This is not really potentiation, more like addition. Of course, the ultimate ways to increase bioavailability is to change the route - to IV if possible, to a lesser degree but still highly effective is the newly popular method of insuffulation (snorting). Growing up, I never would have dreamed I would one day prefer to snort my tablets.

Decreased Elimination Opiates metabolized in the liver (all of them (that I can think of)) can also have their metobolism inhibited (we are no longer talking about first pass metobolism) by drugs which directly inhibit some of the enzymes that metabolize (and inactivate) our precious dose. SSRI's love to do this for us, as well as cimetidine, and 3.5 trillion other drugs (however, a great many of these interactions have no clinical relevance and are barely perceivable, if at all, other than for a placebo effect). Again, various drugs affect various opiates, but their are patterns to the madness (but they are a secret). This inhibition does not result in a higher dose absorbed (all though it could do that in addition), nor dose it alter the peak levels achieved following a single dose opiate (their are exceptions to every opiate rule). However, enzyme inhibition can result in prolonged activity (yeah for more nodding off), usually to a moderate extent. Most of these interactions are not clinically relevant, but some combinations can have dramatic effects (personal experience as cited below) generally as the result of drug accumulation.

Methadone is notorious for this, as its usually half life is between 12 and 36 (to 48 to 60 or more hours, it varies a little bit). Because of this, there is always still a lot of drug remaining from the previous dose (typically half the previous dose when methadone is dosed daily)when it is time for the next dose. Slowing the metabolism of methadone can result in a gradual but pronounced increase in drug levels, reaching it's peak in 5 half-lives (i.e. 2.5 to 7 to even more DAYS). For me, it was fluvoxamine and methadone (a mistake I allowed my doctor to make twice). Fluvoxamine inhibits cytochrome 2D6 in the liver, one of the main enzymes that deactivate methadone. This resulted in a longer half life, resulting in more drug left over when the next dose is due, resulting in slowly climbing blood levels, followed by a 1 month stupor where I wandered the winter landscape of northern BC walking an hour through storms everyday for one hour to get my daily dose of sunshine. This eventually led to me in the the psych ward for 2 weeks over Christmas (I don't remember most of it. This was all due to drug induced delirium via methadone (I was only 31 years old (and it was Christmas))),

(of course, remember, 5 half lives to peak levels, 5 half lives to eliminate 98% of the opiates from your body (you may need to know that if you have a drug test coming up).
 
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