Opioids The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread

[morphonorconic]

I'm sorry for double posting, but I can not stop laughing. Thank you, DrankSippa.

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

Codeine potentiators? (Yes, I know about the UOP thread )

8. Belladonna Alkaloids - These three alkaloids, scopolamine, hyoscyamine and atropine are used as antispasmodics and anticholinergics and have indirect additive effects on natural and semi-synthetic opiates when taken by mouth. The belladonna-paregoric mixture Donnagel PG has a crazy rushing high to it when taken at 150% of the therapeutic dose. Similar effects have resulted with combining the therapeutic dose with normal doses of codeine and dihydrocodeine.

Of the alkaloids considered singly, therapeutic doses of scopolamine help out the opiates, hyoscyamine theoretically would have no direct impact, and atropine has variable antagonist activity, and its impact on opiates generally is a wash with the exception of some synthetics, which it directly wipes out. Diphenhydramine is basically synthetic scopolamine, the anti-parkinsonism agent Trihexyphenidyl (Artane) is an atropine equivalent that does not appear to have the opiate-antagonist properties of atropine, and chlorpheniramine has many atropine-like effects (and a very similar dose-to-response curve) with no known opiate-antagonist activity. In all cases starting with the therapeutic dose of both the opiate and the anticholinergic are recommended, with increases in the anticholinergic needing to be capped at double the therapeutic dosage. In contrast to the belladonna alkaloids, the mentioned antihistamines have negligible gastro-intestinal effects, and Artane is closer to the antihistamines than atropine in this regard.

So Benadryl is just as good?

9. Diphenhydramine (Benadryl) -- This antihistamine increases the effects of opiates more or less evenly across the board, and the effect seems to be similar for all natural and semi-synthetic opiates. A normal dose of the opiate can be taken with 25 to 75 mg of diphenhydramine. This mixture should be taken with a bronchodialator/decongestant because diphenhydramine is also a cough suppressant. The green label version of Alka Seltzer cold medicine contains a sufficient dose of decongestant and sodium bicarbonate (which slows metabolism). If the diphenhydramine product contains alcohol, the loading dose of the opiate should be reduced by 30% and the any booster doses should be taken no sooner than an hour afterwards.

So, green label Alka-Seltzer should be used in combination with Benadryl?

14. Dextromethorphan Hydrobromide - Therapeutic doses of dextromethorphan tend to smooth out a codeine buzz and add calmness to the buzz of hydrocodone, oxycodone, and dihydrocodeine. Anything above this amount may not be a good idea because of the respiratory effects. Dextromethorphan is technically an opioid in the same chemical class as Levo-Dromoran, without a lot of the same effects, of course.

Is a non-dissociative dose safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

17. NyQuil (Doxylamine & Dextromethorphan + other items) - See the dextromethorphan and doxylamine sections for details on how these act separately. This mixture is a good potentiator of practically all narcotics and has a particularly pleasing impact on hydrocodone. Because of the alcohol content, a therapeutic dose of NyQuil should be taken with an initial opiate dose reduced by 25% if it is the only item added or 25-45% if a third agent (the best are ONE of the following at one time):
a.Orphenadrine, therapeutic dose, best with any
b.Chlorpheniramine, therapeutic dose, best with codeine
c.Diazepam, no more than 50% of the therapeutic dose with a 5mg maximum, somewhat better with hydrocodone. In this case, the dose of NyQuil should also be cut by 25%, as well as basically halving the initial opiate dose and then taking the other half about 45 minutes later, and no more alcohol consumed in any form.

So, does NyQuil contain Chlorpheniramine? (Again, is a theraputic dose safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

19. St. John's Wort - This has seemed to help some of the stimulant effects of opiates, codeine in particular, along. The difference varies quite a bit from person to person, and the fact that St. John's Wort is reportedly a soft Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitor should be considered when getting ready to mix things.

Safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

26. Loperamide (Immodium): This drug is related to meperidine/pethidine (Demerol) but does not cross the blood-brain barrier in sufficient quantities to cause euphoria. However, the consumption of doses of 150-300% of the therapeutic dose when mixed with high doses of codeine or meprobamate have been reported to produce a weak Darvon-like buzz aside from the effects of the other drugs.

How much Immodium needed to potentiate codeine?

Also, I know Tagamet is going to have the oppositve effect with codeine, but how about grapefruit juice?

Again, I'm aware of the UOP thread, and if necessary feel free to merge, but with that thread being so long I didn't want this post to go unread. (Only because thats exactly what happened when I posted in the Ultimate DXM thread.)

Sorry for the long post (mostly just quotes), but I really want to get the most out of this drug as I have a pretty high tolerance for opiates (oxycodone and hydrocodone especially.)

Peace,
Beanfiend

 

[betsym]

Try Milid (a.k.a. Proglumide). It supposedly reverses tolerance and increases effects or did for me. There's an article on erowid about it.

 

[Mr Blonde]

So Benadryl is just as good?

Yes. Do a search, it's obvious that benadryl helps many opioid users.

So, green label Alka-Seltzer should be used in combination with Benadryl?

That's exactly what it says in your quote.

Is a non-dissociative dose safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

Well, DXM is mos def contraindicated with SSRIs, but mirtazapine is not one of those... it has serotonergenic properties though, so could quite possibly be a bad idea. I've heard of people using therapeutic doses of DXM whilst on SSRIs with no problem, but I personally wouldn't use it. DXM will just prevent your tolerance from rising, keep your use at a level where that's not a problem. I've never noticed DXM to 'smooth out' my codeine buzz, whatever that means.

So, does NyQuil contain Chlorpheniramine? (Again, is a theraputic dose safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

No, the quote is saying that if you use one of their recommended potentiators (e.g. chlorpheniramine) with nyquil, to reduce the dose of your opioid even further. If you are asking if NyQuil or chlorpheniramine is safe to mix with mirtazapine, then as far as I know CPM is safe and NyQuil containing DXM will be answered by my answer above. Doxylamine will be fine.

Safe to take with mirtazapine (Remeron)?

You shouldn't mix MAOIs with mirtazapine, the MAOI action of St John's Wort is weak but I found it pretty useless as a potentiator anyway. St Johns Wort will also induce the enzymes that metabolize morphine, the metabolite of codeine that you want.

How much Immodium needed to potentiate codeine?

Also, I know Tagamet is going to have the oppositve effect with codeine, but how about grapefruit juice?

As far as I know Immodium won't do shit. But you question is answered right there in your quote, 150-300% (1.5-3 times) the therapeutic dose, which is listed ON THE SIDE OF THE BOX. 8)

Grapefruit juice also inhibits CYP2D6, which you want working on codeine to turn it into morphine.

Next time, please read the articles you are quoting properly as you may find you own answers, and also UTSE.

Again, I'm aware of the UOP thread, and if necessary feel free to merge, but with that thread being so long I didn't want this post to go unread. (Only because thats exactly what happened when I posted in the Ultimate DXM thread.)

Guess where this is going...

Merged.

 

[Mr Blonde]

G-d damn it, how the hell did I move this to BDD?

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

^ GREAT! Thanks a bunch to both of you for the epic response time. Is Proglumide legal? It seems everyone knows about it but no one can find it.

 

[betsym]

Yes it is legal. I made the mistake of ordering it from Pakistan and it took over 3 months for me to get the order. Needless to say, I did NOT order from them again. There's another place, also overseas, but I am skeptical of it. It is supposedly available from some chemical supply houses. I am researching all the sources I can find because the shit works, or it did for me. I am a chronic pain patient (Degenerative disc disease in neck, Carpel Tunnell syndrome in both wrists) and am on Lortab 10. I have been on the same dose since starting treatment in 2004 and since this is going to be long-term treatment, because I can't have the required surgeries right now, I need to keep my dosages as low as possible to keep tolerance down.

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

Unfortunately I'm not in the position to be placing any overseas orders (especially considering the prices I've seen for this shit), but thanks for the info.

 

[betsym]

It was cheap as hell........

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

I didn't have the scratch to pick up any Benadryl, Immodium or Alka-Seltzer yet, but I can tell you that IMO alcohol definitely potentiates codeine (this was suggested in another thread I found UTFSE.) I had not experienced this with any of the other opiates I have (heavily) abused: oxycodone, hydrocodone and hydromorphone. After taking 300mg codeine and barely feeling much after an hour or two, I drank a couple glasses of red wine and almost immediately I was euphoric (opiate euphoria, not alcohol euphoria) and itching like crazy. On a seperate occasion, I took 300mg codeine, and like the previous experience, I felt very little after an hour or two, but this time it was food, not alcohol, that potentiated my high. Same thing: Almost immediate euphoria and intense opiate itch. All I ate was just a couple Yoplait Original Mixed Berry yogurts, some Premium multi-grain saltines, and drank a couple cans of V8 100% vegetable juice.

Thought it was interesting, as I have very little experience with codeine, as opposed to the others I mentioned, which I have heavily abused, and am very familiar with their various potentiators. Peace.

 

[Opiatesrarely]

How long should you wait before snorting OC after drinking fresh squeezed grapefruit juice?

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

^ your answer should be here http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=171305&highlight=grapefruit+juice+faq

i think its like 30mins-1hr

 

[Opiatesrarely]

yo aight so i drank some fresh squeezed grapefruit juice and an hour later snorted 15mg OC, and i felt less euphoria and nod than i usually do with that. so It is a fail for me for some reason.

 

[2oclockbeanfiend.2]

^ I'm pretty sure GFJ/Tagamet only extends the duration, not increase the high. And while some people find it effective for opiates, others say its only effective for benzos. Lets say for the sake of discussion that it is effective for opiate potentiation, you aren't going to notice a damn thing with a dose as low as 15mg oxycodone.

 

[tadfish]

Think you got to have it 1 houjr before.
€I not sure if it will do anything if u snort it only eat t apart from drips
i usualy drink 1.5L of grapefruit juice before any opiates like today with poppies seeds. Also had some phnergan with it and oh soma.
soma and phenergan werre strong together really strong!

 

[MCMG]

Think you got to have it 1 houjr before.
€I not sure if it will do anything if u snort it only eat t apart from drips
i usualy drink 1.5L of grapefruit juice before any opiates like today with poppies seeds. Also had some phnergan with it and oh soma.
soma and phenergan werre strong together really strong!

Yeah, I definitely heard you do it before, not after. Just drink a tall glass, wait about an hr like previously stated, then do it. Don't underestimate how much it actually does potentiate.

 

[tadfish]

Suboxone

Can Suboxone be used to potentiate opiates i think today as i feel like crap after using Suboxone too early after a poppie seed binge of some 5 days of non-stop drinking that shit. Anyways a few of us were wondering can you used Suboxone first then wait a while for Naloxone to stop working and use another opiate to get high.
Note: suboxone's contains Buprenorphine hydrochloride; Naloxone hydrochloride

 

[rolls]

Sure but you'd want to wait a day at least, and that day you will be in withdrawals. I'd save the subs for when you aren't using regularly or if you want to get clean. Watch out for that poppy tea tad, that shits the devil.

 

[tadfish]

Tell me bout it i drank it for days like someone would binge drinking and you know my tolerance is high rolls. Hope ya doing well haven't heard from you in a while (forgive me rudeness). You i know that now but i was wonder if you can have a suby first then wait a while a get onto some other opiates. I got this from MIMS:

Respiratory depression. Suboxone is intended for sublingual use only. Significant respiratory depression has been associated with buprenorphine, particularly by the intravenous route. A number of deaths have occurred when addicts have intravenously misused buprenorphine, usually with benzodiazepines concomitantly. Deaths have also been reported in association with concomitant administration of buprenorphine with other depressants such as alcohol or other opioids. Patients should be warned of the potential danger of the self administration of benzodiazepines or other CNS depressants at the same time as receiving Suboxone.

In the event of depression of respiratory or cardiac function, primary attention should be given to the re-establishment of adequate respiratory exchange through provision of a patent airway and institution of assisted or controlled ventilation. Oxygen, intravenous fluids, vasopressors and other supportive measures should be employed as indicated. High doses of naloxone hydrochloride 10 to 35 mg/70 kg may be of limited value in the management of buprenorphine overdose.

Suboxone should be used with caution in patients with compromised respiratory function (e.g. chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, cor pulmonale, decreased respiratory reserve, hypoxia, hypercapnia or pre-existing respiratory depression).

Central nervous system depression. Patients receiving Suboxone in the presence of other narcotic analgesics, general anaesthetics, benzodiazepines, phenothiazines, other tranquillizers, sedatives/ hypnotics or other CNS depressants (including alcohol) may exhibit increased CNS depression. When such combined therapy is contemplated, reduction of the dose of one or both agents should be considered. Suboxone should be used cautiously with monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs), based on experience with morphine.

 

[johanneschimpo]

^ Because white grapefruit contains the organic compounds - flavonoids or something - that work on the CYP450 enzyme system and give you the results you want for potentiation.
I don't know if the case is that white grapefruit has it and the other colors don't, or (the more likely scenario) that white grapefruit has higher concentrations of the compound you want than the other colors.