Positive The Tapering Supportive/Social Thread

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I haven't posted much as I am not feeling well. I am staying at 20mg oxymorphone ER a day... which is my prescribed dosage. I consider it a taper when I do not take the 3 oxyocodone 15mg IR prescribed each day as well. For some reason, the oxymorph is just so weak... I can hardly feel the effects at all; however, it does keep me out of withdrawal. I usually take extra during the first week or so that I pick up my refills - this time, I am not. I really need to have extra meds left at the end of the month so that I am ok while my meds are being ordered. It just seems so stupid to me that I paid so much money this month, with changing doctors, to not have any effects from my meds, other than staying out of withdrawal. I still need to be at 10mg ER a day before I would consider jumping off, so I guess I will remain financially strapped each month.
 
Hey Poke, Anna, Shroomy and Squeaky!

I read your progress everyday. I'm so awed at your ability to make this work and continue to stick with it.

Keep up the good work. I'm pulling for all of you!

- VE
 
Thank you all for your support, but I have failed again. I'm back to 90 mg/day oxycodone. Part from real pain, but I think that I am just thinking about my pills too much and it is making me crazy.
I'm going to just try taking as little as I can and try not thinking about them as much as possible and see if it helps. I'll be off of bluelight for a couple of weeks, but I'll check back around Haloween.
Good luck ........ to us all!
 
I had a horrible day emotionally because I got high yesterday. I got back on track with my 15mg doses. I'm so used to them by now that one day isn't going to mess with me much, but I took 120mg that day.

I'm holding out to see how this goes, and to see whether I'll eventually be able to function. It's doubtful; it seems that all I am capable of doing at this point is hating others and threatening suicide. I think I'm just having a horrible day because I took double my normal dose yesterday. I didn't get a good high from it, either, so I'm not inclined to use again. I felt overly sedated and passed out all day.

One thing I've noticed is it is becoming harder and harder to achieve the high that I like. I suppose with increased tolerance, comes increased side effects from using higher doses. I find that the opioid high is very mentally stimulating while being physically relaxing. I am finding more and more that the high is becoming sedating however, as I require higher doses to feel anything. I've never understood the allure of 'nodding' so this is alarming to me. It is another reason to stop.

The hash really helps my state of mind - and my body, in particular with digestion. I am using really great oil, well, crumble you could say. Smoking herb vs. dabbing quality oil feel quite different, and I like to combine them. I can't tell if I'm addicted or if I just really love to dab that oil, but it's not a concern because I don't plan on putting the dab rig down anytime soon, or ever.
I plan on sticking with that form of dope, it's much less depressing to abuse. I'd like to cut back a bit on the hash, but I find that fiending it is necessary to get off these opioids. One of my motivations is that if I take my prescribed amount I'll have more money to fiend hash. It probably helps pain, in any case all of it feels healthy since it's organic. I'd rather get high on weed and hash, something I've been doing for 15 years and can still get elevated on, than continue messing around with pills that I actually need for my back. I will take the extra back pain because I won't forget how awful those first few weeks were. The reefer helps transfer any addictive tendencies I have over to a more benign substance that doesn't come with horrible side effects. I could still easily become hooked on dope because rapidly change my feelings and contradict myself.

edit... it has been a few days since I slipped. I've been taking 60mg/day religiously. I will never go higher than that ever again and I have ceased to view increased opioid use as a solution to my suffering. I am very much stable on 60mg now being halfway through the third week. Emotionally I am a wreck but that is okay, I have plenty of good hash being Canadian. One thing I find weird is how much I am sleeping, is that normal at this phase? I had insomnia for a really long while, but now I find that I am sleeping way more than usual. In the past 24 hours I have slept 12 easily, at least. I think that I'm just catching up on sleep, or my brain needs the rest to produce new endorphins.
I've also been incredibly hungry, but that could be the hash. Before 11am I had made spelt crepes with chives, and also a huge pasta with shrimp and sausage and vegetables so that is two heavy meals within a few hours. I guess it's part of the recovery process but I better make sure to exercise a bit.

I should go back and read some old messages from a couple weeks ago. Maybe I'll do that, just to see how much progress has been made. I am no longer in anywhere near as much pain. No restless legs or aching arms, no stomach cramps, no increased anxiety, still depressed as hell but that's me. Just a shitty life. I probably forget how bad it was, I'm interested in looking over what I wrote because I noticed in withdrawal my perception of time was altered.

Hope poke mama is doing well with her taper, and med adjustment, and Squeaky I'd encourage you not to give up, because I know that you can get to 60mg, and lower, easily if you stick to the set of rules you made up and move past the slip ups with even stronger vigilance than before. Those set of rules are infallible if you just stick to them. I can't see any way to do this other than having constant vigilance, and rules; the pills have to be on your mind dude, probably all the time at first.

I am definitely not giving up yet. If I want to get high I'll smoke weed or hash. I am so very much used to these 15mg doses now and I figured it would take around this much time ideally so I am happy with how quickly I recovered physically. I feel like my depression will continue to improve also since it's only been a couple weeks so far. I have to recover from the recovery itself, since I was laying in bed for so much time. It's crazy how I almost forget that it happened, it is like my brain is blocking how bad it was from my memory, in an attempt to get me to start using again. Man, all I have to remember is how fucked up that withdrawal was it is SO not worth it, especially now that I'm not really getting high the same.

Eventually my 15mg doses will start getting me high, and that's when I will know to taper down. My next jump is going to be a direct jump from 60mg to 40mg, and it's going to be sooner rather than later. I still need some space though. It hasn't been too long since I was abusing much higher doses and sniffing. Once I have taken it easy on 60mg for a long while, maybe another month, I will make the jump to 40 and I expect the withdrawals to be at least as severe as they were this past time (but they will probably be easier).
I'm also considering an immediate drop to 50mg, but I really don't want to push it. I need at least a little bit of time where I feel decent and not like shit.
 
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I am feeling so drowsy and sluggish the past few days... I don't know what is causing it. Can it be that I am staying at the 20mg dosages? As I have mentioned several times, that at least one week out of the month I would go as high as 60mg, even 80mg of oxymorph, although I would be panicky at the end of the month b/c I was short?

Could it be because I am now 100% off of my ativan? I was only taking 1mg at night... I have taken .5mg as a taper for the last week, until last night, when I took no benzos at all. I have no energy at all; this is not like me... I would get a burst of energy from my opioids; in fact, they kept me going through the pain, and the lethargy caused by my pain.

I hate feeling like this; however, just like Shroomy, when I did try to up my dosage, by taking two doses closer together than normal, I ended up with a negative effect : a splitting headache, and no positive effects at all.

I have to go get my flu shot today, so I am going to my G.P. I also want to try injections for my knee pain, as the opiates just take the edge off, and I want more relief. I need to get a referral from him to an orthopedic surgeon. I am so tired and blah... it is a struggle to get ready to go and drive to the doctor's. If anyone has had this drowsiness and lethargy when going to lower doses of oxymorphone ER, I would love to hear about your experience.

Squeaky
: I wish you only the best with your current plans. Please do check in from time to time... regardless of where you are with your taper. I need all the friends I can find on BL, as I have only a family member in real life who knows of my pain pill usage, and I hate feeling so isolated.

Shroomy: Keep up the good work with writing such detailed posts. They will be great to refer back to as you continue to decrease your pain pill dosages. It sounds like you are getting past the addictive art of your pain pill usage... you report very little, if any, energy or euphoria these days from your opiates.
 
I think that drowsiness and lethargy are common withdrawal effects. I find that regarding the actual medication, ER pain meds tend to make me much drowsier than IR meds at similar doses. Definitely has to do with the rate of onset of the medication. It wouldn't be a taper if I was experiencing energy or euphoria from my doses, because my overall brain chemistry would not stabilize as well. At this point I am stable on 60mg and have no withdrawal symptoms anymore and the only effect is pain relief. That sounds pretty hard to believe! I am fairly sure I was suffering in one way or another from the pills when I started posting here. I actually feel semi-great now in the sense that the lack of opioids is not making me feel like complete shit. I just feel normal-shit like I used to.

I am going to try dropping to 50mg, beginning today. My pain is managed (it's still very much there, just managed as it should be) and also I don't have any more withdrawal symptoms, so why not carry on? I didn't always need this much oxy, and 60mg is still a shit ton to be on every day compared to what I needed in the beginning.
I just took my first 12.5mg dose a little earlier. It's going to be 12.5mg every 6 hours now instead of 15mg. I'm hoping I will hardly notice. I have slept for around 15 of the past 24 hours and my weed tolerance is low so it's a great time to start. Once I get a little lower in my dose (40mg), I will go back to my combined ER/IR treatment but I find that for tapering I would not even bother with extended release, it confuses me.

The primary reason I have to move downwards is that I don't have the money to take more than prescribed anymore, and so long as I have a prescription I never want to buy another extra. Any extras should come from my own script. I am dropping to 50mg and then 40mg and hoping to do this quickly. Probably 10mg for the rest of this week and then down to 40mg. If I fail at all I'll just go back to 60 for a while.

Squeaky, I hope you come back because we both have mental health issues and were doing basically the exact same thing. Fighting the good fight. Dude, I know you can do it if I can. I don't know how bad your pain is but I usually have a cane without the stuff and a back brace and I am under 30 and spend half my life on my heating pad. I have a crazy addictive personality and also I'm pretty much suicidal, if I can sit down and force myself to do this anyone can. I've had experience beating other addictions which probably helps. None of them have been anything remotely this bad, though. Those few weeks were utter hell and I really just had to set my life aside and commit. Two weeks later I was able to start functioning again, and I was bedridden most that entire time. The first time I got outside and walked around a bit, I had extreme pain for a few days because I wasn't used to walking. Dude I would just hate to see you walk away from this. You were one of the reasons I started my taper the way I did. I was pretty psyched to see someone on the same dose dealing with the same bullshit.
 
Thanks, Shroomy... I will just hang in there then... if the symptoms are signs of withdrawal I am thinking they will resolve themselves by the week-end... I am sick of feeling sick!
 
I am going to 50mg from 60mg now. Today is the first full day of 12.5mg ir doses instead of 15mg ones. In a few days I will drop down to 10mg ir doses and I'll be at 40mg/day. Probably in 5 to 7 days I will do that. So far so good. Minimal withdrawal symptoms, definitely uncomfortable around dosing time but nothing I can't handle. Feels like the 2nd week of my previous dose cut, which was much steeper.
This should be physically not too bad and the self control seems to be there, since I really want to get below my max daily dose so I can spend more money on hash. Definitely pretty nasty symptoms though for just dropping 10mg. It has to be done though.
 
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Wake up, guys! Where are my check-ins for the day? I know that squeaky is taking a hiatus- but Poke and Shroomy, how you feeling?

- VE
 
Hi guy's I'm new here my first post actually !! I was hoping to get a little advice on what to expect as I'm tapering down on suboxone . I have had detox b4 but not like this . The reason it different now is that I have been on 26 mgs for three years . Past detox has been in the way of coming off strong opiates E.G heroin and then having a fast increase of bup and then a fast decrease ? This has never really worked for me because I always started using soon after !! So the last time I come off H I was put on a maintenance dose for three years. Up until now !!! Thing is these guys have dropped me 2mgs a week down to 18mgs then stopped for a month but started again 2 days ago buy dropping 4mgs . So I'm now on 14 mgs with a plan to drop 2mgs a week until clean . I was just hoping someone could give me some advice as what to expect in the way of wd but also if thay think its to qick or not . Thanks guys sorry for my bad grammar ??
 
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Welcome to our thread, OnOne2! Please feel free to post here as often as you like. I don't have any experience with tapering off of suboxone... however, if you browse the threads here on the Recovery Support forum under The Dark Side and Sobriety you will likely find other's experience on what to expect as you taper down on the suboxone.

Hi VE Thanks for checking in on us taperers! I have felt lethargic and have had an upset stomach and some dizziness, so have only been online to read a couple of posts. I am staying at my 20mg ER a day... I think the ativan has been intensifying the effect, so now that I quit it, I am having these w/d symptoms. I just hope they resolve by the week-end, as I have to babysit, and I hope to be more energetic w/o having to take extra dosages. I have read that oxymorphone tolerance increases quickly, but the good news is, that it decreases quickly as well. I will let you all know. Shroomy I hope your day is going well and your drop down by 10mg a day is not too bad.
 
I feel so much better today! It was withdrawal symptoms, and I am now adjusting well to the 20 mg ER dosage a day. I did not feel dizzy at all this morning, and just ate an early lunch. I did take .5mg ativan last night, so I slept well, which helped me feel better as well. I am so happy that it gets easier each day to take my scheduled doses. After holding here for about a week, I will decrease my dosage by 5 mg a day as part of my overall taper plan.
Shroomy and OnOne2, and Squeaky if you are checking in... I am thinking of you all and hope you are doing well.
 
Awesome, Poke mama! That's fantastic! It will be so great to have extra pills, especially if the Feds are cracking down. Keep up the great work!
 
Thank you for stopping by AnnaB. :) I am just so relieved that I feel better and no longer feel dizzy and nauseated.
 
Yay, Pokes!

I am glad you are feeling better. I know what a relief it is to have those skies clear up, even if only for a day/while.

While you are having a good day, I am struggling like mad. The lack of sleep has really caught up to me.

- VE
 
Hi VE :) Remember that going cold turkey is a roller coaster ride... if today is not the best day, for sure tomorrow will be better... hang in there!!

Did you end up taking a benzo? Or is your goal to be completely off meds? I took just .5mg last night of my ativan, and my sleep was very restorative. I can't take it every night, per my new pain management doctor, as he wants me off it, but I have put a call in to his office to ask if I can use even .25mg occasionally for insomnia. I don't want to jeopardize my opiate taper b/c of insomnia.

Since I was a teenager, having a small bowl of a not sugary cereal with milk would always help me sleep well. However, I do not suffer from any existing medical issues that are impacted by certain foods. So, I don't know how many foods are restricted for you, or do not help you. I sure hope you get a good sleep next time you try!
 
I just heard back from my doctor's office and I am approved to use small amt of my ativan for sleep until I meet for my next scheduled appointment the end of the month! I am so relieved... just being able to take my benzo when needed reduces my anxiety. I absolutely have a goal to be down to .25mg by my appt. the end of the month, as I will have to jump off then. Actually, I want to be able to stop taking them every night... I can see now that I am dependent on them, and would like to resolve the issue. Because I have almost 3 weeks to taper, I think I will do a good job of lessening my need for them.
 
I am down to 2 10mg oxymorphones a day from 4 scripted. But if I'm honest, it's because it's the end of the month. My appointment is next week. I'm going to ask to switch to 3 oxycodones and 3oxymorphones instead of 4 and 2, and eventually switch back to oxycodones, which for some reason, I never abuse or run out of.

One thing I'm noticing is that I'm waking up in the middle of the night. I thought it was hormones, because some of those days were woken up in sweat, but the last few nights are with a sort of itchy feeling. I've taken to taking the smallest amount and going back to sleep.

How is everyone else doing?
 
I only took .25mg of ativan and it was enough to help me sleep! I am happy about that. I feel even better today. I have to re-read Shroomy's posts every day to remind myself that I never want to go above the dose I am taking now of my pain medication... NEVER! It does no good and is not part of my short or long term goals.

AnnaB Great work holding at 2 oxymorphone... even if it is b/c you have to be mindful of running out. It is setting up behaviors that just may continue, even when you get your refill. That is what happened for me. I just could remember that panicky feeling that I might run out and I began to taper right away. I no longer need to supplement the oxymorph with oxycodone.. do you? I find I feel too spacey adding both together in the same day. Therefore, right now, I have the biggest stash of opiates I have ever had, for emergency use only, if ever. I understand we all have different pain levels and different harm reduction goals- just curious.:)
 
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I am going from 60mg to 40mg now. It is going to be awful and has been so far. I am finding it hard to contain myself. I am staying at 50mg for a full 3 days and then dropping down to 40 regardless of how I feel about it. It has to be done because then I will be under my max daily dose and that will be great because it will eliminate the problem of extra pills. And, it will be just like last time where I stabilized on a lower dose with the same level of pain relief within two weeks. Extras will be able to be saved and used to get high for when I need to be most productive as a disabled person.

Also, my tolerance is much lower. Taking 12.5mg doses every 6 hours causes withdrawals when I'd normally feel fine on 15. Real nasty withdrawals, I wouldn't expect that from just taking off 10mg each day. I took a 20mg pill the other day after a few weeks got me extremely high. I was flying that day, too bad it can't last since that is the only time I'm ever really happy. But it was awesome to experience an incredible oxycodone high again because I had lost the ability to be able to regardless of dose. It just has to be an occasional thing now and I'm fine with that.

I definitely plan on continuing to take high doses sometimes. The pain is to extreme to function otherwise. But for now my use is on the decline, as well as my tolerance. It feels really good to see your tolerance drop even if it's just a little. I really can't wait to be on 40mg. That is a much less addiction than 60mg, and honestly I could probably run out cold turkey at 40mg and not suffer too too much or do anything desperate. That's always a concern because of the medical system and how this shit is on lockdown, and people truly don't give a damn. They could easily take my pills away and if they did, 40mg or so is a pretty easy habit to maintain.

So, wish me luck. If I went from 120mg+ down to 60 I am sure I can finish the job. I just don't really want to right now since I was just doing the whole withdrawal thing and was just starting to feel better and healed. It's a pill access and financial thing but it will still be good for me. I completely lost it today though. Might need some more hash to stay sane. Or clonazepam for that matter.

Of course some asshole doc could try switching me to an antidepressant out of the blue sending me to heroin but I can't predict shit like that. I am doing everything to get my dose lower so that my prescription looks more like a nice pill stash than half of what I need and a major worry.
 
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