Positive The Tapering Support Thread v 2.0

[Squeaky]

Kratom only ever helped me with the physical wd’s. It never really had an effect on the negative thoughts. Although I had been depressed for a couple if decades before I discovered opiates. It’s probably the reason I got addicted. Drugs make everything better, until they don’t.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

You say you're on a program? Do you get take home?

If you do, buprenorphine has a long enough half life that if you split your 4 mg dose into 2 mg doses 12 hours apart. Apart the serum level in your blood will normalize over approximately 10 days and you should not experience any significant withdrawal but it will allow you to step down further after that.

Optimally your next step would be to go to 1 mg four times a day, 6 hours apart and then to three times a day, 8 hours apart and then to twice a day 12 hours apart.

Than a half milligram four times a day, three times a day, two times a day and then down to a half a milligram once a day and then walk off.

Yes, and yes i get take home. Two 2mg doses 12 hours apart (roughly) is how I take it. I think I will try that 1 every 6 hours for a short time (as it should be roughly the same) and quickly move to 1mg every eight hours; because that is something and right now I feel like I need a win in that area; however small.

Thank you so much for the advice; I presume you advise to go to the next step when you feel steady for a few days to a week, I can afford to prolong the taper a bit.

 

[Squeaky]

Yes, and yes i get take home. Two 2mg doses 12 hours apart (roughly) is how I take it. I think I will try that 1 every 6 hours for a short time (as it should be roughly the same) and quickly move to 1mg every eight hours; because that is something and right now I feel like I need a win in that area; however small.

Thank you so much for the advice; I presume you advise to go to the next step when you feel steady for a few days to a week, I can afford to prolong the taper a bit.

Just sharing my own experiences tapering:

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I tried tapering was breaking my pills into 1/4th’s. My prescription was for 3 pills per day and my plan was to break it into 12 doses, that way I could start dropping one tiny dose every few days.

Huge mistake. What I had done was created a situation where I was never without oxy in my blood. Even the smallest reduction felt like cold turkey.

What I think I learned was that I needed to suffer every day in small pieces. Like the old saying “How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.” When I tried 1/4 pill every 2 hours instead of 1 whole pill every 8 hours and I dropped it to 1/4th every 3 hours….. full withdrawals all day without a break. I was actually better off sticking to my 8 hour dosage schedule and planning on feeling like crap for a couple of hours each day, then planning on feeling better after my pill, but cutting my doses down by 1/4 pill at lunch or dinner. That way I could function through a meeting at work or be present at dinner with my wife.

 

[snmfmy]

Yes, and yes i get take home. Two 2mg doses 12 hours apart (roughly) is how I take it. I think I will try that 1 every 6 hours for a short time (as it should be roughly the same) and quickly move to 1mg every eight hours; because that is something and right now I feel like I need a win in that area; however small.

Thank you so much for the advice; I presume you advise to go to the next step when you feel steady for a few days to a week, I can afford to prolong the taper a bit.

I don't know you're exact metabolism but a week to evaluate how you feel after stepping down a milligram would be reasonable.

 

[snmfmy]

Just sharing my own experiences tapering:

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I tried tapering was breaking my pills into 1/4th’s. My prescription was for 3 pills per day and my plan was to break it into 12 doses, that way I could start dropping one tiny dose every few days.

Huge mistake. What I had done was created a situation where I was never without oxy in my blood. Even the smallest reduction felt like cold turkey.

What I think I learned was that I needed to suffer every day in small pieces. Like the old saying “How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.” When I tried 1/4 pill every 2 hours instead of 1 whole pill every 8 hours and I dropped it to 1/4th every 3 hours….. full withdrawals all day without a break. I was actually better off sticking to my 8 hour dosage schedule and planning on feeling like crap for a couple of hours each day, then planning on feeling better after my pill, but cutting my doses down by 1/4 pill at lunch or dinner. That way I could function through a meeting at work or be present at dinner with my wife.

That's because the half-life of oxycodone is 3 hours. That's why people commonly get withdrawal between doses.

It won't happen with buprenorphine.

The half life of buprenorphine is 25-70 hours with a mean value of 38 in most people.

 

[Squeaky]

I hope I don’t sound ignorant (even if my wife says I am), but what would be the benefit to dosing every 6 hours if the effects last for so long?

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

A mental victory to gain momentum. That is all.

I like the 1 mg x amount of hours and just slowly stretch out the amount of hours between doses. 1 mg every 8 hours should not be a hard goal to reach and that (however small) is progress.

you are definitely not ignorant squeaky; I thought the exact same thing and translated it to first sentence of this post.

So you feel like once or twice a day dosing would be more productive; as at least I am use to a small flux in ng/ml in blood stream? I did understand that right?

 

[snmfmy]

I hope I don’t sound ignorant (even if my wife says I am), but what would be the benefit to dosing every 6 hours if the effects last for so long?

Because the peak plasma after dosing would be lower, which allows your body to get used to a lower peak plasma level

A lot of people don't realize that the peak plasma level is usually what instigates withdrawal.

That's Why you have inter dose withdrawal.

 

[OceansState]

I don't remember taking suboxone more than once a day when I was tapering off. I always crushed and bumped it. When I was abusing it id be taking it 2-3 times a day, upon waking, maybe around noon then when I got home from work, I never took it at night but back then I was an alcoholic also and pounding the beers. I'm now wondering if I was able to taper off the Suboxone was because I was drinking heavily.

I'm not recommending drinking, I'm just remembering what I did. I find it hard to remember things since I was always messed up, hungover or high/drunk.

 

[Squeaky]

A mental victory to gain momentum. That is all.

I like the 1 mg x amount of hours and just slowly stretch out the amount of hours between doses. 1 mg every 8 hours should not be a hard goal to reach and that (however small) is progress.

you are definitely not ignorant squeaky; I thought the exact same thing and translated it to first sentence of this post.

So you feel like once or twice a day dosing would be more productive; as at least I am use to a small flux in ng/ml in blood stream? I did understand that right?

Yeah. Once or twice per day would definitely work better for me anyway. There’s also the psychological component, feeling reliant on that dose to get me through till my next dose. Once per day starts to feel like putting on your socks in the morning: Just something that you forget you did.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

can't tell how often I forget if Ive done a quarter or a half that day....im sure you can guess what I presume lol

I prefer once a day dosing honestly. At least you feel a slight increase in blood content I suppose lol.

 

[Squeaky]

My trick (because my memory is horrible): I send a text message to myself. Every time I take a pill, I text myself the medication and the dose. I send tge text and a second later I receive the same text. Later on I can just open my text chain FROM myself TO myself and the information is all there.

 

[kiely]

You always come up with the best ideas !! Wow. I did did that some time ago.
I should start again. Just don't lose the phone, right.

Yeh that is a good one. But I forgot.

 

[Jerry67]

What a brilliant, thoughtful and informative post, i thoroughly enjoyed reading it!

i would like to add a few comments from my experience, although i’m not exactly the greatest success story

First is to sort out a schedule and stick to it, my usage is historically very sporadic, i just take it when i want to feel great or i’m feeling withdrawals, i.e very random, so a taper needs to start with a strict regime which, as you say, you do not cheat on. For me my day starts at 5am and i dose 3 times (240mg a time) .. last night i woke at 2am in pretty severe withdrawals, sweats, aches etc.. i just had to stick it out, tossed and turned for 3 hours with my little bottle of pills by the bed…and with great relief swallowed them at 5am exactly! - as soon as i tell myself, ‘don’t worry, you can have them early tonight’ - then that’s it, same the following night, same with the next dose, and the wheels fall off-BE DISCIPLINED

The second thing i’ve learned is only to drop when you are stable and ready, there is no point for me planning a drop every 7 days, i just have to wait until i’m feeling normal, then give it 2 days or so, then drop, otherwise i get a wave of withdrawals on top of existing withdrawals, and then give up inevitably.. i mean when i say normal i mean not in full blown wds, i agree with your point that you are
going to feel low most of the time

What is really frustrating this time is i am struggling to stabilise, today is day 11 from a 20% drop and i still don’t feel great, which is frustrating as i’m trying to launch a business at the moment and i’m not in the right headspace at all..anyway fingers crossed

would be great to hear from others who struggled to stabilise , always get comfort from those in the same boat

Thanks again for a great post

Are you saying you were 240 mg of straight IR oxycodone? I may be missing something so I apologize in advance. I'm new here, work in the pharmaceutical industry as a Scientist, and a pain patient trying to wean or taper off of 40 mg oxycodone per day (4x 10 mg) that I usually take in 5mg increments. I have been able to get to 15-25 mg per day in about 7 or 8 days and would like any advice to get off this trap. I have 1mg xanax available and no clonidine but will ask my doc for it and probably lower my dosages ony other BP meds. I find loperimide (2 pills at a time) help, and I work 9 to 10 hours day, go to the gym but I'm still concerned about getting off this so this is why I am scouting these threads for advice. Thanks

 

[EPL1]

Are you saying you were 240 mg of straight IR oxycodone? I may be missing something so I apologize in advance. I'm new here, work in the pharmaceutical industry as a Scientist, and a pain patient trying to wean or taper off of 40 mg oxycodone per day (4x 10 mg) that I usually take in 5mg increments. I have been able to get to 15-25 mg per day in about 7 or 8 days and would like any advice to get off this trap. I have 1mg xanax available and no clonidine but will ask my doc for it and probably lower my dosages ony other BP meds. I find loperimide (2 pills at a time) help, and I work 9 to 10 hours day, go to the gym but I'm still concerned about getting off this so this is why I am scouting these threads for advice. Thanks

Hi.

I'm also a chronic pain patient that has voluntarily come off her meds a few times in the past recent years, due to just being sick of the stigma at the pharmacies, and I don't like being chained down to this shit. Unfortunately, had to go back on due to my surgeries and spinal deterioration.

I can help you with any wd info you'd like though, and you can feel free to pm me.

Any gaba drug script you can get your Dr. to write will be your best friend. IE: Gabapentin or Lyrica.

Benzo's are also fucking amazing to get off opiates too, and you have those, but just use it for as short a duration as possible. Loperamide for the runs. Which you have too, so that's great.

Those are a pretty mean hat trick if you can get them. Hit me up if you have any questions. Good luck.

 

[Jerry67]

In

Hi.

I'm also a chronic pain patient that has voluntarily come off her meds a few times in the past recent years, due to just being sick of the stigma at the pharmacies, and I don't like being chained down to this shit. Unfortunately, had to go back on due to my surgeries and spinal deterioration.

I can help you with any wd info you'd like though, and you can feel free to pm me.

Any gaba drug script you can get your Dr. to write will be your best friend. IE: Gabapentin or Lyrica.

Benzo's are also fucking amazing to get off opiates too, and you have those, but just use it for as short a duration as possible. Loperamide for the runs. Which you have too, so that's great.

Those are a pretty mean hat trick if you can get them. Hit me up if you have any questions. Good luck.

Hi! Thank you for your reply! The reason I'm on opiods is due to a spine surgery back in 2015 which caused chronic burning pain in my left foot and also my legs. The pain was so bad I didn't think I would make it but the oxycodone helped tremendously. I did take Lyrica for a few years but found it did nothing for the pain so I weaned off of it slowly since it was beads inside a capsule it was easy to titrate downward. Unfortunately I threw all my extra Lyrica away. What does the Lyrica do to help coming off Oxycodone? How much is needed? I have tons of Xanax 1mg cause I never take it except in rare cases when the nerve pain gets bad which is usually at night. My primary goal is the get completely off oxycodone, I was on 60 mg per day then asked the doc to put down to 40 mg and I've been on that for years. I managed to taper down to 35 mg and held that for awhile. And now I'm going down faster ( I know this is not recommended) and I am trying to maintain 15 to 20 mg per day. Why am I in a hurry? I want to move back to Florida and I don't want to have to deal with these controlled drugs anymore. It keeps me hostage to a doctor and locality. My doctor and pharmacy are great; they don't shame me at all but they are small businesses not Walgreens or CVS where they will at times shame us. I appreciate any advice on weaning off this crutch. I think my pain is manageable without the opiods and I want to know what it feels like au natural. Should I ask for clonidine? How should I take loperamide? Should I allow myself to feel sick to get over this quickly? I heard the only way out is to suffer a bit. I think I can handle the physical symptoms such as yawning, watery eyes, runny nose, feeling cold, low energy, running to the toilet (basically opposite reactions to what oxy dose) but my concerns are the other symptoms that psychological symptoms that hit after those flu like symptoms kick in. Again I appreciate your help and attention. I live in the NE. Thank you and I would love to hear your thoughts and anything you wish to share.

 

[Iceman1216]

One of the issues I always had with tapering opiates was the knowledge that I didn’t need to suffer today if I didn’t want to. I shouldn’t use mire than I’m supposed to today, but that meeting at work is important, or I really need to sleep tonight. “I’ll get back on track tomorrow.”….. then I don’t.

Running out of my meds meant cold turkey, but still needing to find a way to get my ass to work! I’d spend all night sweating. Crying on the freeway on my way to work at 6am. Pretend that I’m fine for 8 hours at work. Then go home and do it all over again.

There’s something very debilitating about a taper for me. That little voice that nags all day and says “You really don’t need to suffer right now”, “One extra pill is really no big deal”, “ You’re tapering anyway, so you’ll have extra pills at the end of the month”, “Time it right and it will last perfectly through your meeting/interview/project/etc”

It never lasted long enough. I always took that extra pill way too early just so I could relax a bit first, then I would need ANOTHER pill half way through whatever it was. Then my tolerance would be up and my taper was destroyed.

Cold turkey was always easier for me. I got good at it, running out each month. The fear of the unknown is what I think drives most folks to give up on cold turkey. The first few days feel like it’s never going to end. Just a tunnel with no light anywhere. I because an expert on counting days until I would be sleeping normally, pooping again, and generally not feeling like death. It’s not a skill anyone should have.

Thank you! I came back on BL to read your posts ( AGAIN )

 

[Squeaky]

In

Hi! Thank you for your reply! The reason I'm on opiods is due to a spine surgery back in 2015 which caused chronic burning pain in my left foot and also my legs. The pain was so bad I didn't think I would make it but the oxycodone helped tremendously. I did take Lyrica for a few years but found it did nothing for the pain so I weaned off of it slowly since it was beads inside a capsule it was easy to titrate downward. Unfortunately I threw all my extra Lyrica away. What does the Lyrica do to help coming off Oxycodone? How much is needed? I have tons of Xanax 1mg cause I never take it except in rare cases when the nerve pain gets bad which is usually at night. My primary goal is the get completely off oxycodone, I was on 60 mg per day then asked the doc to put down to 40 mg and I've been on that for years. I managed to taper down to 35 mg and held that for awhile. And now I'm going down faster ( I know this is not recommended) and I am trying to maintain 15 to 20 mg per day. Why am I in a hurry? I want to move back to Florida and I don't want to have to deal with these controlled drugs anymore. It keeps me hostage to a doctor and locality. My doctor and pharmacy are great; they don't shame me at all but they are small businesses not Walgreens or CVS where they will at times shame us. I appreciate any advice on weaning off this crutch. I think my pain is manageable without the opiods and I want to know what it feels like au natural. Should I ask for clonidine? How should I take loperamide? Should I allow myself to feel sick to get over this quickly? I heard the only way out is to suffer a bit. I think I can handle the physical symptoms such as yawning, watery eyes, runny nose, feeling cold, low energy, running to the toilet (basically opposite reactions to what oxy dose) but my concerns are the other symptoms that psychological symptoms that hit after those flu like symptoms kick in. Again I appreciate your help and attention. I live in the NE. Thank you and I would love to hear your thoughts and anything you wish to share.

Wow. It’s like I’m reading my own biography.

I had 5 spine surgeries, starting in 2015. Now I gave 20 screws in my lumbar spine (fusion l3-s1). I have taken up to 500 mg oxy per day (scripted up to 150mg per day). I have been prescribed Ativan, Gabapentin, Baclofen, Lyrica, Dilaudid, Norco, and Oxy. I have used Loperamide and Kratom for oxy withdrawls. I have all of the burning/stabbing/numbness you described in my right leg/foot/toes.

Today I’m down to only taking Lyrica for the nerve pain and Kratom for everything else.

I have tried everything except suboxone.

My first bit of advice is to get off the opiates completely and never go back to them. They CAUSED me more general pain than they cured. It took several months of abstinence to figure that out.

I don’t do PM’s usually because my hope is that my experience could help someone else (you didn’t find us here on BlueLight through private messages, so I guess it’s working). I can definitely help you with dosage information on things like loperamide and Kratom.

And…. good luck. Getting away from oxy is a complicated journey. But there’s plenty of folks here who can help.

 

[OceansState]

For me a taper is the way to go. I find Gabapentin and Kratom work very well together at making me feel normal/ok. I still sleep like garbage and its been over 1 month. I also take 150mg XL Wellbutrin in the morning, prescribed for sadness/depression, and I think a side effect is it gives me energy, even though I hardly get sleep in awake and and not tired during the day. I do drink alot of coffee though.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I don't know you're exact metabolism but a week to evaluate how you feel after stepping down a milligram would be reasonable.

down to 3 mg. which is a 25% reduction (duh). In the future i plan to cut no more than 20%. First went down to 4mg every 36 hours than 3 every 24; not feeling too bad; not having the best time ever but not sick either.