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The Mephedrone Thread (4-mmc) version HR+ 2.0

They also believe it is addicted because every man and his dog go to court claiming they are addicted and needed all 50 because they go through 10 a day. The dogs usually say "woof woof" but it's the same message.
 
The last bit was a joke.

If you got caught with 50 pills and were being charged for supply, you could (and almost every one does) that you are addicted to pills and therefore that 50 was only a small personal supply.
 
Claiming you're addicted or the "evil" drugs caused you to "act out of character" (depending on the charge) often results in a more lenient sentence. This defence really shits me, it plays into the lawmakers hands but people always go for it because they've gotta look after themselves. Who wants to make such a stand?

Edit: point being, while some defence lawyers would be well aware of the addictiveness of various substances, they'll still do and say what they need to on behalf of their current client.
 
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Claiming you're addicted or the "evil" drugs caused you to "act out of character" (depending on the charge) often results in a more lenient sentence. This defence really shits me, it plays into the lawmakers hands but people always go for it because they've gotta look after themselves. Who wants to make such a stand?

Edit: point being, while some defence lawyers would be well aware of the addictiveness of various substances, they'll still do and say what they need to on behalf of their current client.

Well being addicted to a drug does change your behaviour and make you do things you wouldn't normally do, I mean would you rob a house or steal a purse if you still had all your money due to not being a heroin addict? Highly unlikely.
 
SeveredPsyche I get what you are saying but honestly I would rather hear about less harm coming to a drug user in the form of a lenient sentence, even if it means they have to misrepresent the fact they are addicted to a drug that may not be particularly addictive (if at all). Really it is the law makers fault, as nobody should have to be in front of a judge justifying their possession or use anyway imho.
 
rolls_, I'm not disputing it, but that isn't my point.

drug_mentor, the constant misrepresenting of fact is sustaining the current legal situation. But I agree with all you say, just venting my frustration. I probably should have said "the need for this defence really shits me".

Sorry, this is all a bit off topic really.
 
^ I really don't think the legal status of 'Ecstasy' is reall hinged on the fact whether its addictive or not to be honest man. I have heard the term 'drug of dependance' being used towards ecstasy nut I think it is more just a term applied to illicit drugs, as you rarely hear law enforcement types refer to cigarettes or alcohol as drugs of dependance. Also, I would argue that while it is impossible to become addicted to MDMA in a traditional sense, it is definately possible to become reliant on MDMA in certain social settings. Just because you might only use it once or twice a week, if its a compulsory part of your night out or you wont even leave the house then you certainly have some level of dependance on MDMA.

Personally, it would be a very rare occassion these days that you would catch me at a club and not using amphetamines (almost always meth) and on the rare occassion you might, I definately will be having a shit time. I know people that have been exactly the same in the past towards MDMA.
 
Personally, it would be a very rare occassion these days that you would catch me at a club and not using amphetamines (almost always meth) and on the rare occassion you might, I definately will be having a shit time. I know people that have been exactly the same in the past towards MDMA.

^^ dayum you took the words outa my mouth, i know a heap of people in the eggxact same position
 
drug_mentor, AFA, I completely agree. But that isn't always the case (although often most likely by the time someone is caught). Say someone is past their clubbing every weekend stage (yes, I do know the forum I'm posting in here. :) ) and fires up maybe twice a year. If they're caught holding a few for friends on one of those special nights, what would their defence be? What could or should it be?

^ I really don't think the legal status of 'Ecstasy' is reall hinged on the fact whether its addictive or not to be honest man.

Not saying it hinges, but it helps perpetuate it. The more often it's argued, the more ingrained it becomes. There's also legal precedent, reporting etc. It's hard to argue for decriminalisation if we're constantly told how addictive something is.
 
^ Well their defence is probably just going to be pleading guilty and copping a slap on the wrist. The whole addiction claim is only really neccessary when caught with an amount larger than ordinarily deemed to be for personal use to convince the magistrate that you aren't a dealer.

I can't say that I agree with you on that last part too much, nobodies arguing for the criminilisation of cigarettes despite their well known addictiveness. The issue is moral judgement and we are far past the stage where a large portion of the community instantly views illicit recreational drug use as immoral, I don't think in terms of a drug like MDMA this view is really held because it is commonly believed to be addictive, more often its your 'russian roulette' and brain cell frying type hysteria that tends to be negatively associated with ecstasy. Just my 2c.
 
The issue is moral judgement and we are far past the stage where a large portion of the community instantly views illicit recreational drug use as immoral, I don't think in terms of a drug like MDMA this view is really held because it is commonly believed to be addictive, more often its your 'russian roulette' and brain cell frying type hysteria that tends to be negatively associated with ecstasy. Just my 2c.

Yeah it's an interesting one. I believe long term use of MDMA is harmful but I don't agree this should be used as a basis for its illegality. Being addicted is a commonly used defence and the media likes to portray it as the equivalent of a bad thing. Addictive = evil, it would be a politically unpopular decision to decriminalise or legalise such substances.

The immorality argument people use is a fantastically circular one. An article in our local rag recently had the line "legislation cannot stop the introduction of illegal substances". The statement makes no sense as the substances aren't illegal when they are introduced (some are, but that's a different discusion), but it does highlight the hysteria around "illegal" substances. It's saying that anything illegal is inherently bad and that all (rec) drugs are bad. Drugs are bad because they're illegal, drugs are illegal because they're bad.

News(ltd) articles rarely come straight out and say "using psychoactive chemicals to alter consciousness is bad and should be stamped out!", mainly because of the massive hypocrisy of it. Instead they hide behind faux moral arguments "why do you have to get high to have a good time?", "you don't know what you're getting", "people have died taking one tablet" type stuff.

To end my ramble, the legal profession is all about technicalities, loopholes and working the written law to your advantage. I get that, and I fully understand why, when put before the courts on a charge which could change their life, people opt to use any means necessary to clear their name rather than make a principled stand. Doesn't mean it doesn't bug me, though.
 
Meow meow: The party drug that fries your brain

Meow meow is causing significant memory loss.

IT'S cheap, it's easy to find, and it's more addictive than cocaine. But experts warn meow meow (or Drone, among other names) is no party drug - it's literally frying your brain.

Meow meow, Drone and MCAT are street names for mephedrone, a synthetic psychoactive drug that is also found in so-called "Bath Salts".

It's been on the party scene for a number of years in Australia and it's estimated that tens of thousands of revellers dabble in the off-white power.

It's said to produce a similar but more powerful high than either ecstasy or cocaine and is dangerously addictive. Yet the dangers of this relatively new and unknown drug are only just beginning to surface.

Researchers from the University of Sydney have found compelling evidence that mephedrone can give users significant memory loss, the long-term effects of which aren't yet fully understood.

Craig Motbey, the leader of the controlled testing on rats, says meow meow is similar to amphetamine and huge numbers of people have been taking it for years.

"It exploded so fast and so wide," he told news.com.au.

"[But] we know virtually nothing about the drug. Now there's a big push to find out if it's doing damage.

"It might be something that causes subtle damage that builds up, but we don't realise anything's wrong until a couple of years later when we have tens of thousands of fried brains."

Disturbing research

Mr Motbey's research confirms the fears of anti-drug campaigners. You mightn't be able to convince people to ditch recreational drugs, but they might take notice if they realise the damage it's causing.

What sounded the alarm was a simple memory test called the Novel Object Recognition Test. It works like this: A rat, given a dose of the drug, spends time in a fixed area with two identical objects (let's call them A and A).

The rat is taken away, then brought back later to spend time with one object the same (A) and one entirely new object (B). A rat with a normal, healthy memory would only ever spend time investigating object B.


"Rats are naturally curious critters," Mr Motbey said. "If you put a new object in front of them, they'll spend all their time checking out the new thing.

"If they spend equal time with both things (one new and one old), then that's a clear sign of memory damage – which confirmed earlier theories about mephedrone."

Mr Motbey refers to an earlier uncontrolled study in the UK, where mephedrone users were brought in a month apart and given standard cognitive tests. The results showed some evidence of memory impairment.

"When you take the drug you get a massive wave of euphoria from serotonin, which then goes away," Mr Motbey added.

"Then there's a persistent dopamine hook that motivates people to re-dope. Mephedrone is extremely addictive. So people are getting this short-term high, the major thing driving people to take the drug, but then they're re-dosing regularly to get that initial hit back."

‘As bad as any drug'

The latest research figures show mephedrone usage in Australia is down two percentage points from 2011 in 2010. But it's still a significant problem.

Steve Patton, the acting commander of the NSW Drug Squad, said there haven't been many seizures of mephedrone but that certainly didn't mean the drug was free from risks.

"People shouldn't be taking it. It's a drug that's just as bad other drugs," he told news.com.au

"It doesn't surprise me that it does have ill-effects for people's health."

Louise, a young woman from Bondi Beach who'd dabbled with other party drugs before, says she regularly took meow meow around two to three years ago. Why?

"It was a lot stronger than pills or other drugs with a bigger high and it was cheaper," she told news.com.au.

"You can sniff it or you can eat it. It used to be about $100 per gram, which compared to coke is much cheaper.

"It gives you more of a buzz than cocaine. It's more like taking a pill, and in terms of the effects it was slightly different."

Breaking bad

Louise says it's not as readily available these days and admits, although she didn't experience major side effects, she's noticed lapses in her memory.

"How significant the effects of the memory damage, we just don't know. The research hasn't been done," Mr Motbey adds.

"We don't know what's causing the memory damage. We looked at the brains - and they were exactly the same. It's a subtle change, it's not immediately obvious."

"Hopefully we can get the word out to users that this is not a harmless, innocuous drug, it can do damage to you."

If meow meow is shut down then another, potentially more dangerous drug will inevitably pop up in its place. A drug we know nothing about.

"Modern chemistry has become so flexible you can make virtually anything," Mr Motbey added.

"A new drug comes out, the authorities ban it, and crack down on the supply. Then another drug comes out, the authorities ban it, crack down on the supply.

"It only takes moving a carbon atom from one place to another to change a drug from harmless and fun to absolutely lethal. It's just a matter of time before the drug-taking community hits on something incredibly dangerous."

With comments @ -

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/meo...-1226478007544
 
I saw this posted somewhere else, how true it is I dont know.

I know theres some horror Meph stories in EDD with people using insane amounts on a daily basis for months.

I was fortunate enough to try some pre-ban meph and it was brilliant.

$
a gram!!! she was getting taken for a ride lol
 
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Beat me to it this time Poledriver.

Just commenting on this, the test with the rats to me really doesn't indicate memory loss. It shows that sobering up you may not be able to remember the details of being under the influence as well. Thats like saying drinking beers on the weekend gives memory loss. But intoxicated things like memory become impaired doesn't mean that afterwards they have permanent damage.

Although I wouldn't be at all surprised if 4-MMC does give permanent damage but to me the way this test was done is less then credible.

Also, I thought bath salts were a different RC. Can someone please correct me? I was having a discussion about bath salts with a friend recently and he was saying some horror stories that I heard, if it's 4-MMC he's referring to then our discussion would've been very different as I'd have more input.
 
Beat me to it this time Poledriver.

Just commenting on this, the test with the rats to me really doesn't indicate memory loss. It shows that sobering up you may not be able to remember the details of being under the influence as well. Thats like saying drinking beers on the weekend gives memory loss. But intoxicated things like memory become impaired doesn't mean that afterwards they have permanent damage.

Although I wouldn't be at all surprised if 4-MMC does give permanent damage but to me the way this test was done is less then credible.

Also, I thought bath salts were a different RC. Can someone please correct me? I was having a discussion about bath salts with a friend recently and he was saying some horror stories that I heard, if it's 4-MMC he's referring to then our discussion would've been very different as I'd have more input.

Bath Salts for the last couple of years in Australia has usually meant MDPV or Pervert Powder as Nano christened it.
 
I saw this posted somewhere else, how true it is I dont know.

I posted it in DITM (drugs in the media) as well...

Beat me to it this time Poledriver.

hehe..


Not sure if anyone else from here commented on the comments section (I did twice) but some interesting comments on there I thought.

Bath salts can be a mixture of differing RC's I thought? mephedrone, mdpv and more probably, here's what wiki says on it -

Pharmacologically, bath salts usually contain a cathinone, typically methylenedioxypyrovalerone (MDPV), methylone or mephedrone; however, the chemical composition varies widely[4][9] and products labeled with the same name may also contain derivatives of pyrovalerone or pipradrol. In Europe the main synthetic cathinone is mephedrone, whereas in the US MDPV is more common.[4]

Very little is known about how "bath salts" interact with the brain and how they are metabolised by the body.[5] They are similar to amphetamines in that they cause stimulant effects by increasing the concentration of catecholamines such as dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine in synapses.[5] They are generally less able to cross the blood brain barrier than amphetamines due to the presence of a beta-keto group which increases the compound's polarity.[5]
 
^Thanks for clearing that up guys. I'd heard the term thrown around but hadn't bothered to sus it out.

And yeah I haven't commented on it because most of these news articles I read on my phone which I can't post comments from =(
 
Someone asked me last night what Bath Salts were. It's good that we are getting the correct information out about this.
 
Bath salts can mean any RC under the sun, originally they started using it to call 4mmc back in the day many many years ago along with "plant feeder", "growth enhancer" etc etc. They just called it that and wrote not for human consumption as no one is going to ingest "bath salts" right? LOL
 
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