The "Kava-Kava" MEGA THREAD!

[Sprout]

Injecting un-purified plant matter surpasses the realms of stupidity and enters the field of the course of Natural Selection.

 

[Elkat13]

Injecting un-purified plant matter surpasses the realms of stupidity and enters the field of the course of Natural Selection.

I would never inject un-purified plant matter. That is why I am looking for a preparation to make it injectable. Heroin is plant matter, but then it is prepared to be injected. Same thing. I've read about people doing it online, I just can't find a recipe.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

At least 95% of the people who inject heroin do so because they are enslaved by the drug. The rest are predominately naive kids who are looking for that ultimate rush. Heroin contains all kinds of impurities and cuts too, so just because there are some who do it, doesn't mean its ever safe to inject something that's not "pharmaceutical grade".

Since people will concur that Kava doesn't provide near the high of heroin, there is very little reason left why someone should ever inject it. Never have I heard of that which you speak.

Anyways, I was wondering if anyone has a full or almost complete list of Kava's mechanisms of actions. I know there are quite a few.

 

[Dunno]

What's a good dose of Kava to produce an Anxiolytic effect?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I just tried some kava and so far it feels like vicodin when I take enough.. so its nice.

Does it really not build tolerance though? It sounds like bullshit marketing to me that kava doesn't build tolerance but actually continuously gets stronger the more you use it.

I suspect people state that it produces this phenomenon because of cumulative MAOI-B action, meaning tolerance surely builds to the GABA mechanism.

anyone else get bad side effects like hang overish feeling? maybe i have too much but if i dont have lots I dont get a buzz, its a slighty dirty drug to me but that maybe the amount i have when i have it.

I recently got a hang over from this, which was very enjoyable in the beginning actually.

hey man, i've noticed this to, but its after i take largee amounts. you say you need lots? you arn't getting the good shit.
plus taking kava to often can cause weird side effects. most common one i get is a feeling of being pressurized. like i was being squished?
eh i was taking it everyday for 90 days. i dont recommend being on it for more than 30 days.

I agree. Four lips put in for twenty-thirty minutes each and then swallowed got me hammered. The feeling is one of being drunk, high, clear-minded, and naturally at peace all in one. Its great because it feels like nothing else is needed. Make no mistake, this can rock anyone with a low or non-existent GABAergic tolerance. Yet I wouldn't compare its recreational potential to hard drugs. This is a powerful herb that can also be addictive. I wouldn't recommend taking it every day for more than two weeks due to its powerful antidepressant and GABAergic potential. The herb is great for anxiety incurred while using marijuana (though in my opinion one should stop abusing MJ if it doesn't like them persistently), doing hard work, relaxing after hard work, and long talk-a-thons. It must be handled with care.

What's a good dose of Kava to produce an Anxiolytic effect?

That all depends on the Kava you get. Probably a range from a couple grams to well over a bottle of pills.

 

[cpuller]

Is kava in any way comparable to kratom and can I mix the two?
I have a great kratom vendor but kava seems kind of more expensive.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^Kava and kratom will probably synergize with other, since they can both have sedative and calming effects. I haven't taken them together but I've heard good reports from others. I don't think there should be much danger from mixing them, I've taken kava with opioids before, but I would try kava on its own first and then if you are going to mix them start with a lower dose of each to be on the safe side and avoid possible unwanted side effects, especially if you normally take high doses of kratom. I wouldn't call kava that similar to kratom, but personally I didn't really like kratom (at least the kind of kratom I've tried) and I do like kava. I am surprised you think kava is more expensive than kratom - I find kava to generally be around 25%-30% the price of kratom and you don't need as much of it for an active dose (note: we aren't allowed to discuss specific prices or vendors).

This is a powerful herb that can also be addictive.

I certainly wouldn't call kava "addictive". It doesn't create a physiological dependence and it is not psychologically addictive in the sense of drugs we normally refer to as "addictive". Of course some people can get addicted to anything, but I would equate its addiction potential to that of pizza (actually personally I am grouchier if I go too long without pizza ). I have taken it daily for periods of 1-3 months at a time and had no problem at all stopping, no withdrawal symptoms, cravings, increase of depression/anxiety etc. And I am someone with a very "addictive personality". I have known people who took high doses daily for years (not because they were "addicted" but because it was commonplace and expected in their culture) and had no problems stopping for long periods of time.

You and others also refer to it as a "powerful GABAergic", but I didn't think that was really correct? The mechanism of action of kava is not understood, but the pharmacological activities of kava do not appear to be explained by any significant interaction with GABA or benzodiazepine binding sites. Animal studies have shown varying results, with some finding it had no effect at all on GABA receptors/binding, some finding it weakly enhanced the binding of GABA receptor agonists, or didn't enhance the binding but increased in the number of GABA binding sites. There have been a number of other theories proposed to explain kava's mechanism of action and it is likely due to a number of different mechanisms. Strong GABA agonism does not seem plausible from what I've read and experienced. Unless I am missing something?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I certainly wouldn't call kava "addictive". It doesn't create a physiological dependence and it is not psychologically addictive in the sense of drugs we normally refer to as "addictive". Of course some people can get addicted to anything, but I would equate its addiction potential to that of pizza (actually personally I am grouchier if I go too long without pizza ).

You and others also refer to it as a "powerful GABAergic", but I didn't think that was really correct? The mechanism of action of kava is not understood, but the pharmacological activities of kava do not appear to be explained by any significant interaction with GABA or benzodiazepine binding sites. Animal studies have shown varying results, with some finding it had no effect at all on GABA receptors/binding, some finding it weakly enhanced the binding of GABA receptor agonists, or didn't enhance the binding but increased in the number of GABA binding sites. There have been a number of other theories proposed to explain kava's mechanism of action and it is likely due to a number of different mechanisms. Strong GABA agonism does not seem plausible from what I've read and experienced. Unless I am missing something?

This was simply not true with me. Two weeks of daily use was enough to provide fine, frequent tremors, anxiety, and insomnia upon stopping.

You are. I think you will find that virtually any source which relates Kavas psychopharmacology will reference GABAergic activity. In addition to my above symptoms after ceasing use, the feel of kava is consistent with GABAergic activity; I've taken many of these drugs. I think you have the burden of proof here since your opinion is not widely accepted.

I don't think I referenced it as a powerful GABAergic, but in my opinion any GABAergic is powerful due to the potential severity of withdrawal.


One such source: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00048674.2010.522554

 

[mrflowers00]

kava has a nasty body load IMO

 

[Swimmingdancer]

This was simply not true with me. Two weeks of daily use was enough to provide fine, frequent tremors, anxiety, and insomnia upon stopping.

What form were you taking it in and what kind of doses? I have never heard of that before.

You are. I think you will find that virtually any source which relates Kavas psychopharmacology will reference GABAergic activity.

That's the thing though - "virtually any source" does not say that kava significantly affects GABA, all the actual studies on it seem to have different findings. I don't think it is "widely accepted" that kava has significant effects on GABA receptors. I'm not saying it definitely doesn't affect GABA in any way, I'm just saying from what I read it does not seem to be proven that it is a strong GABAergic or that that is where the effects primarily come from, or even that it affects GABA at all. Or that withdrawal syndrome is likely/common. Dependence/withdrawal symptoms are certainly not anywhere near as common as with benzos or alcohol.

Only weak activity was observed on GABAA binding sites in washed synaptosomal membranes prepared from rat brain and this was abolished by extraction of the membranes with Triton X-100, suggesting that lipid soluble components were involved. No effects were observed on GABAa binding sites in rat brain membranes in vitro. Kava resin and pyrones exerted some weak effects on benzodiazepine binding in vitro but this did not correlate with pharmacological activity. In addition, in ex vivo studies, no effects were observed on [3H]diazepam binding to brain membranes prepared from mice in which selected kava constituents were injected intraperitoneally, whereas similarly administered diazepam (5 mg/kg) inhibited [3H]diazepam binding by >95%. Similar lack of activity was observed in in vivo binding studies; injection of kava resin failed to influence the CNS binding of the benzodiazepine-receptor ligand [3H]Ro15-1788 injected into mice prior to sacrifice. The pharmacological activities of kava resin and pyrones do not appear to be explained by any significant interaction with GABA or benzodiazepine binding sites. [Source]

Kavapyrones have well-known psychotropic properties. The most common actions of the extract are relaxation and euphoria, depending on the circumstances of ingestion, whereas higher doses cause sleepiness and skeletal muscle relaxation. Several other actions have been reported such as anticonvulsant properties, neuroprotection and analgesia. No interactions with neuroreceptors have yet been found that would explain the multiple actions.

The results of this study suggest that the relaxing and slightly euphoric actions may be caused by the activation of the mesolimbic dopaminergic neurones. Changes of the activity of 5-HT neurones could explain the sleep-inducing action.[Source]

Controversy exists regarding the activity of kava on GABA or benzodiazepine-binding sites. [Source]

The exact mechanism for these effects is not known. There are conflicting reports with regard to kava kava effects on benzodiazepine or GABA receptors. [Source]

Despite the similarity with benzodiazepines, kava pyrones fail to interfere with GABA A receptors as shown by radioligand binding assays. [Source]

There are many more like this, whereas most of the ones that say it affects GABA say things like "proposed" "theorized" "suggested" etc. So far I have only been able to find one study that found kava to affect GABA receptors and other similar studies were not able to replicate the results.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I was taking it sublingually and orally.

The fact that it alleviates benzodiazepine withdrawal well, works against GAD, and anecdotal reports of drunkenness should be be enough in conjunction with the majority of sources to conclude that Kava works by increasing GABA.

http://journals.lww.com/psychopharm...of_Kava_Extract_for_Treating_Anxiety_.14.aspx
http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/pharmacology/adrien-albert/images/pdfs/RefsPDFs/390.pdf

I don't have time to round up many sources. Even if I did you would probably still state that the majority of sources do not reference Kava as increasing GABA, though they do. Just do a simple search.

 

[BananasAndOranges]

I just got some Full Spectrum type dealio from an online vendor. I have had a paste before from this same place and I am a little confused. This paste is somewhat slimey or gooey. It is not...as clay like as the cold water extraxt paste I had. Should I be worried about this shit? Is it normal?

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

No way for us to tell and we're not going to verify your drugs but I don't see why not. There is only one way for you to tell.

 

[Tarnum]

I imagine the root is best but Kaviar Kava extract does the trick also...from experience
84% kavalactone paste is the best. Some people say its expensive but maybe its the vendor? i find i can get atleast 5 uses for an amount that costs less than a dose of H smoked on foil...
I also mixed kava root powder in milkshakes and they actually taste good!

 

[bloodshed344]

Kava shakes are the bomb. There is definitely business potential in it.

 

[Tarnum]

Kava shakes are the bomb. There is definitely business potential in it.

Definitely! the numbness/flavor actually goes well with the sweetness of a milkshake. It almost tastes like cinnamon

 

[CrazyC]

Hello all! I am in SUCH a great blissed-out mood! This is the sweet spot I have been chasing after with my supply of alcohol and benzos. Of course nothing good came out of that...led me sraight to the lock down psych ward. The withdrawal from benzos were horrible, even though they tapered me with Ativan...I just felt dead and numb - not comfortably - for months, PAWS was a bitch. SO.....NO benzos and Booze!! That still leaves me with my high strung nature, prone to anxiety and panic attacks. I got some Kava-root tincture at the local health food store. I made some Celestial Seasonings Tension Tamer tea and added some kratom powder and 60 drops of the tincture. The minty, gingery taste of the tea goes very will with those additives.

My evening combo: 10 perc
150 milligrams lyrica
2-5g capsules Maeng Da
Two cups of the herbal tea, prepared with a teaspoon of the Kratom and 60 drops of root extract

I can't believe how good I feel! No pain and no muscle tension, and -- the main thing for me -- my mind is at peace. I am sitting out on my porch on this wonderful fall evening, listening to music, and it SURE is sounding good. Everything just feels good. I will wake up tomorrow and my shitty problems will still be waiting, but I sure as hell ain't gonna think of that right now. I am going to sit out in the cool fall air and enjoy the trip.

C.

 

[Tarnum]

Hello all! I am in SUCH a great blissed-out mood! This is the sweet spot I have been chasing after with my supply of alcohol and benzos. Of course nothing good came out of that...led me sraight to the lock down psych ward. The withdrawal from benzos were horrible, even though they tapered me with Ativan...I just felt dead and numb - not comfortably - for months, PAWS was a bitch. SO.....NO benzos and Booze!! That still leaves me with my high strung nature, prone to anxiety and panic attacks. I made some Celestial Seasonings Tension Tamer tea and added some kratom powder and 60 drops of the tincture. The minty, gingery taste of the tea goes very will with those additives.

My evening combo: 10 perc
150 milligrams lyrica
2-5g capsules Maeng Da
Two cups of the herbal tea, prepared with a teaspoon of the Kratom and 60 drops of root extract

I can't believe how good I feel! No pain and no muscle tension, and -- the main thing for me -- my mind is at peace. I am sitting out on my porch on this wonderful fall evening, listening to music, and it SURE is sounding good. Everything just feels good. I will wake up tomorrow and my shitty problems will still be waiting, but I sure as hell ain't gonna think of that right now. I am going to sit out in the cool fall air and enjoy the trip.

C.

Kava Kava isnt the same as kratom..idk maybe you got confused, that is more of an experience report...
But Good for you! I love kratom also :D Since you were talking about benzo paws and your abuse with the gabas, i thought you were going to say you drank some kava lol!
In fact, i think you should try it, and alternate between kava and kratom because kratom can cause dependency/addiction and withdrawals if you use for even 2-3 days in a row!
Good luck, and im always eager to help out with more info on the subject

damn i just noticed the extract was a kava extract! sorry about that haha
anyways im glad you are going in the more natural, less harmful substance path!

 

[CrazyC]

That's OK, lol. I really didn't mention Kava that much, did I? I know there were a lot of other chemicals involved but I believe the Kava made the difference. I just woke up in the middle of the night and I still feel pretty calm and able to go back to sleep.

C.

 

[Tarnum]

That's OK, lol. I really didn't mention Kava that much, did I? I know there were a lot of other chemicals involved but I believe the Kava made the difference. I just woke up in the middle of the night and I still feel pretty calm and able to go back to sleep.

C.

hell yea i think some of the kavalactones have like a half life of 12 hours but most of them around 6 hours if i remember correctly!
Have you tried the kava alone? I find it gives me a really happy, almost opiatey, kind of rush for 15 minutes! Unless of course im in withdrawals lol (its funny now, but ill remember this next time im in withdrawals ha)