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  • EADD Moderators: axe battler | Pissed_and_messed

The EADD Maintenance and After-care Thread

I'm on 10mg of subs, started on 8mg 2weeks ago then went to 10mg last week.
I'm seeing the doc tomorrow and I know he will want to put me up (he likes people to be on higher doses)
I feel ok on 10mg though.
Just having the offer of getting something more, even though I don't need it, will be hard to say no to.
I've not been on H for 5 years but still have that addict kind of mindset, take everything I can get, just for a rainy day.

The thing is I can't really tell anyone about this as they all think I'm this reformed person, completely over all that shit. When really, I don't think I will ever get out that mindset of always wanting something.

I've got a great life, I couldn't ask for more. I feel like such a horrible person just thinking about drugs. I honestly couldn't be happier with where I'm at right now. So why can't I just move on from this?

Is is anyone here completely clean? How long before you didn't want/think about using?
 
If you feel comfortable on 10mg stay on 10mg, forcing perople in to a higher dosage is fucked up, it's your care don't be forced in to anything you don't want to do. Way to increase people's addiction and make it harder for them to get clean.:\ That's fucked up.

I was clean for 7 months and thought about using most of the time. Some people can be clean for a day and never think about using ever again. Everyone's diffent so I wouldn't expect anything based on other people's experiences, it can be nice to hear them though I guess.

I would advise you to find some people around you that you can be honest with, having to keep secrets create problems. Perhaps it's worth explaining to people that you're still addicted to opiods and have the whole process of detox and staying clean to go through? Why do they think you're so reformed?
 
I agree with Owen on this. It isn't right if they try to force you on a higher dose. Most places have you on a
Maintenance dose - then gradually reduce the dose over time n when you are ready.

You're not a horrible person. You have an addiction n cravings / thoughts of DoC, go along with it.

Take care,
Evey xxxx
 
So after doing a bit of reading up on Bupe as the last time I did a detox on them (properly) was nearly 10 years ago, I thought id get informed and was curious about Suboxone as I dont remember that being around in my previous ventures through the clinics.

So you've got Subutex and Suboxone. The tex being solely bupe and the Suboxone a mixture of Bupe and Naloxone.

Subutex is still open to abuse, can be snorted, injected, up the back passage maybe, dunno???

Then on the other hand you've Suboxone, which was designed to prevent abuse of the bupe as the Naloxone binds to the μ-opioid receptor faster than the bupe does, hence blocking any high.

Im bored if you havent noticed and so please excuse my drivel... :)

Anyway, my question being why do they still script subutex when oxone appears to do the same job with the bupe but removes the potential to abuse??

Take Evey for example, from what little I know of her she has had a codeine addiction and likes a drink ( not saying you have a drink problem *waves @evey) but apart from that hasn't tried any other drugs let alone abused them.

Then there's me, ive used drugs for well over half of my life and abused them for about half of my life, the DTS know my history and love of all drugs, especially of the opiate kind. So are more than aware of my keenness for altered state of mind.

So with that in mind, why have they given the one open to abuse to me and the not so fun should you want it to be one to Evey?

Is it a regional thing? Does Suboxone cost more? Are there different schools of thought as to which works best?

Whats ya know EADD???
 
ScotchMist said:
So after doing a bit of reading up on Bupe as the last time I did a detox on them (properly) was nearly 10 years ago, I thought id get informed and was curious about Suboxone as I dont remember that being around in my previous ventures through the clinics.

So you've got Subutex and Suboxone. The tex being solely bupe and the Suboxone a mixture of Bupe and Naloxone.

Subutex is still open to abuse, can be snorted, injected, up the back passage maybe, dunno???

Then on the other hand you've Suboxone, which was designed to prevent abuse of the bupe as the Naloxone binds to the μ-opioid receptor faster than the bupe does, hence blocking any high.

Im bored if you havent noticed and so please excuse my drivel... :)

Anyway, my question being why do they still script subutex when oxone appears to do the same job with the bupe but removes the potential to abuse??

Take Evey for example, from what little I know of her she has had a codeine addiction and likes a drink ( not saying you have a drink problem *waves @evey) but apart from that hasn't tried any other drugs let alone abused them.

Then there's me, ive used drugs for well over half of my life and abused them for about half of my life, the DTS know my history and love of all drugs, especially of the opiate kind. So are more than aware of my keenness for altered state of mind.

So with that in mind, why have they given the one open to abuse to me and the not so fun should you want it to be one to Evey?

Is it a regional thing? Does Suboxone cost more? Are there different schools of thought as to which works best?

Whats ya know EADD???
Click to expand...

Its because they know that a lot of people don't get on with the naloxone and that both can be heavy on the liver so its the safer/easier option to go with straight subutex. It could be a regional thing though as I have only ever spoken to one person on suboxone rather than subutex. Its prob a few penny cheaper too so no doubt that's a small factor.
 
The naloxone in Suboxone doesn't even block the buprenorphine 'high'. It's only there to supposedly deter IV abuse, and it fails on that front too.

I think it varies from region to region as to whether Subutex or Suboxone is the first choice, but the latter is becoming far more common because of its supposed 'anti abuse' formulation. Which is utter bollocks, as mentioned above.

I hear Suboxone was only launched in the US because the patent for Subutex was due to expire. Whether that's the whole truth or not I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me.
 
Cheers Sam, twas just curious really, not a concern. There aint half some lethal/bad/misinformation out there on the old interwebs aint the.

Some of the things ive read on other forums and archived BL threads are such crap.....

"dude, dont take the subutex until like 36 hours after your last shot of dope otherwise you'll go into serious withdrawls dude, trust me man, it happened to me and I just wanted to die"........8( you're in serious withdrawls because you haven't used in 36 hours ya tool, or it didnt happen and you pulled the scene out your arse..

I think we should have a thread dedicated to the Kings&Queens of absolutely terrible harm reduction or misinformation from all over the web... Some are sure to raise a smile and possibly put some myths to bed also
 
I'll go... Every time I reduce subs I feel stimulated as hell. It's ace! I mostly take 8 mg now and I'm literally bouncing off the walls. Why did no one ever tell me that the less you take the better you feel?

Evey
 
ScotchMist said:
Cheers Sam, twas just curious really, not a concern. There aint half some lethal/bad/misinformation out there on the old interwebs aint the.

Some of the things ive read on other forums and archived BL threads are such crap.....

"dude, dont take the subutex until like 36 hours after your last shot of dope otherwise you'll go into serious withdrawls dude, trust me man, it happened to me and I just wanted to die"........8( you're in serious withdrawls because you haven't used in 36 hours ya tool, or it didnt happen and you pulled the scene out your arse..

I think we should have a thread dedicated to the Kings&Queens of absolutely terrible harm reduction or misinformation from all over the web... Some are sure to raise a smile and possibly put some myths to bed also
Click to expand...

Depends what opiate he was on previously, if he was on methadone and used bupe 24 hours after last dosing on methadone it's not unreasonable to accept he went in to precipitated withdrawal. All depends on what opiate you are using before switching to bupe, if it's smack then I've heard of people switching after 8 hours (although I wouldn't recommend this at all). Basically just wait until you are feeling reasonably strong withdrawal and you'll be ok.
 
An example of how every person is different for instance is if one of my friend does a quarter gram of heroin he has to wait 24 hours to take a suboxone or he goes into withdrawals. But Me I can do that same quarter gram half gram or whatever it is and be fine to take my sub 4-6 hours after doing the dope and I've never had precipitated withdrawal. Its just about waiting till YOU feel sick not anybodys elses time frame
 
^ Very true. The guidelines for when it is appropriate to take your first bupe dose are just that: guidelines. You take your first dose when the w/d starts to bite whatever opi you're switching from. You should avoid any precipitated w/d that way.
 
What on earth are they doing with your taper evey? So far you've come down from 12mg to 10mg to 8mg?...and now you have been dropped to 4mg? What is their logic in suddenly giving you twice the size drop as you last had?
 
She's doing it herself. Apparently looking for some kind of euphoria by dropping to 4mg. It's clearly not gonna happen as that's not how suboxone works.
 
It's w/d symptoms, Evey. Halving your dose overnight is obviously gonna hurt for a while. You'll soon adjust if you hang on for a few more days. You won't get full-on w/d symptoms cos you still have a fair bit going in every day but your body will take a wee while to adjust downwards.
 
Woah woah woah i woudlnt be too hasty! Whilst it may give you a kick up the arse to carry on with your taper, by the same effect you dont want to be left hanging dry if you decided your taper is too rapid. Cant really do anything about it now as they have already been chucked, but please think twice before you think about doing that same thing again
 
Do you think it may be worth discussing your decision to halve your dose with your prescribing doctor rather than take the script then flush it? Don't think the pharmacist would be overly impressed if you just gave half your script back - would be straight on the phone to your DSP to ask what's going on and chucking or flushing them is a bit of a waste - they ain't cheap Suboxone you know. If you're not taking them, get your script properly reduced to 4mg/day if that's what you're sticking with.
 
I wasn't saying anything about your recovery I was just pointing out that if you give back half your script to the pharmacist they'll call your DSP and query it. And also pointing out that Suboxone costs the NHS quite a bit so is a bit wasteful to pick it up knowing full well you're gonna flush it. It is your recovery - these are just simple points of practicality.
 
I've got a good relationship with my GP despite it being really hard to get face to face, he does his best by calling me to discuss my ongoing meds.

It's over 2 years that I've been on opiate pain killers now, I've found SR Morphine works best for me for both the pain and controlling my dosage. I had some Oromorph recently following an op, the only other times I've had that has been whilst in hospital. I've never been a big opiate fan but I could really start to sense the compulsion to take more when i had a couple of bottles of the stuff to hand.

He's offered it to me twice since ( I spoke to him this evening ) and for once in my life I actually turned down drugs and he's just agreed to give me some extra 10mg Zoromorph so i can top up on the 30's as and when I feel I need to.

I've been through a fair few GPs over the years so I can't comment on other peoples GPs and I've kicked a few into touch when things arent working out, but I do think working with them is the way to go, I try and be honest with mine about things as required, tackling the whole drug seeker issue head on seems to work.

When ever I've had to come off medication or I've decided to come off medication I've made sure he's aware, mostly I've tended to taper faster than he has advised but at least I know if i start experiencing problems I can call on him for help and advice and if required a script.
 
Well done, Allein, that must have been a big step for you to turn them down. Well done, hope that doesn't come across as patronising but don't know if I could have been strong... I understand what you're saying and what Shambles is saying but I have my reasons for doing it this way. I need to feel in control. I'm hugely scared of loss and change, I get extremely obsessed and attached and if I was to tell my key worker now that I want to go down to 4 mg, I'd automatically go back on it, feel fear and relapse. I know that may sound ridiculous to others but it's how my mind works.

It's like when I told my parents too soon, and asked for help. They tried to control me; searching my house for it, phoning my doctor - I felt like a child and suffocated. I need to feel like an adult, I need to feel in control because most of my life I don't feel in control. I feel anything but... I feel I'm never heard and I'm constantly trying to have a voice and get some control. I just ended up relapsing with the codeine because of the sheer fear of 'never having it again.' If that happens again with suboxone, I'll instantly want/need it and go backwards. Once I've maintained on 4 mg I'll contact my DSP and have them change it...

Hell it's taken them ages to change it from 12mg to 10mg. I have been taken 10/8 since May and my appointment was 3 June - but last Monday was the FIRST time they changed my prescription.

I'm sorry for snapping but I hope that explains my reasoning.

Evey
 
Not sure if I've done the right thing in tapering to 4 mg as I'm starting to feeling emotional over stupid stuff. I hope I don't end up crying in public over something stupid because I couldn't control that before - but then I found codeine n it was like a gift from God because it killed stupid emotions like that n anger etc.

I really don't want to go back to the person I was n really tempted to from in the towel with this. Owen was able to go from 24mg to nothing so surely I can go from 8mg to 4mg. So yep a bit scared to be honest. Seeing key worker Thursday n although she's a lovely person I feel she sees me differently to the "other addicts"

I wanted to volunteer making breakfast for addicts who were homeless. When I asked the bloke filled in the forms with me etc- but when I turned up on the day I said, he let me do that day but said there wasn't enough room for me as there were already too many volunteers - yet lets others work there - n got me a two hour placement at the magistrates cafe. Volunteering for the homeless made me feel valued n like I was doing something worthwhile - helping others less fortunate. And it justified my existences.

My key worker also know I'm addicted to Internet forums. I told her I was concerned I'd get banned n that I get anxious n obsessive when I'm worried I'll lose something I'm attached to. Her reaction "just leave and stop going on them!" I felt like screaming at her DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PSYCHOLOGICAL ADDICTION N OCD LIKE BEHAVIOUR????? Any decent drugs counsellor should know that it's deeper than about the drugs n help you explore why. But all she says is "change your way of thinking n find more things to do!" FFS I'm visiting her for that. I could have told myself that bloody bollocks.

I feel I'm wasting my time going to see her n really only getting my script. Telling someone who's anxious over something to "just stop it" isn't practical advice.

I said to her i'm 34 I don't know how to have multiple interest just get full on fledged obsessed n then anxious I will lose whatever I'm obsessed with n it's like a vicious cycle that all I've ever known - I can 't "just fucking stop" if I could - I wouldn't be trying to seek her help. Counselling doesn't work because i agree with everything they say as I'm petrified of confrontation.

Blah. Sorry for the whinge.

Evey
 
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