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The Big & Dandy HBWR/MGS/LSA Thread - Second Iteration

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Xorkoth said:
Depends on the strength of the seeds. If they're strong, 14 will be greatly overwhelming... a very heavy trip indeed. Or it could be just the right amount. Can you get more? If so I would recommend starting with 5 or 6. Better safe than sorry.
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Another thing to remember is how subtle the seeds can be. Even with the same effects, one can notice the effects less than another person, just because they don't 'perceive' them quite as much.
But yeah, 5 is a good starting point. I started there and now I find about 20 is just the right amount for me. Not to say that 5 isn't a good dose, just that I like the effects to be a little more intense so I'm forced to deal with them.
 
Just ordered 10 more seeds. :) next trip will be 8 + 2 if the effects are too mild after 3 hours, maybe with some strong cannabis mixed in... sounds good, but have to wait until saturday probably for that :| ah well, back to normal life I guess :)
 
Morning Glory

Morning Glory seeds, after doin some research on it and how its 1/10 simmilar to lsd I have to mnay questions even erowid couldnt answer for me.

Is there other ways to take them other than eating them?
Can they be smached and Snorted or Smoked?


Also what were your experience with them was it worth it or just wastefull time?
 
SashaK said:
1.Is there other ways to take them other than eating them?
2.Can they be smached and Snorted or Smoked?
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1.There is a way to extract the lsa from them.
2.They can be of course, but they shouldn't be

SashaK said:
Morning Glory seeds, after doin some research on it and how its 1/10 simmilar to lsd I have to mnay questions even erowid couldnt answer for me.
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This makes no sense, what do you mean by "1/10 similar to lsd?"
 
delta_9- i think hes refering to the sentence from erowid that says something along the lines of.

Acid is 01
LSA is0.1
Mushrooms are0.01
Ectasy is 0.001

They mean it as in the relative strenths of the hallicination in a ratio format.
 
If you want to make sure you get the most bang for your buck from your HBW always remember to:

Grind your seeds as finely as possible (preferably with a coffee grinder) as the more they're ground the better your body will absorb the LSA's

Make sure not to vomit up the seeds for a good 2 or 3 hours to ensure all the LSA's have absorbed before you purge

Make sure not to be on any downers when you take your HBW; some people take stuff like Dramamine for the HBW nausea and this can dull the trip

Make sure you are in an inspiring mindset and setting

Most important to maximize the effects is don't bother extracting HBW; just grind and eat the seeds in capsules; any extraction will prob. lose some, possibly a lot of the alkaloids

If your trips still aren't intense enough some MJ at the peak and DXM on the comedown can REALLY boost the trip

Preloading on Syrian Rue, Piracetam or Hydergine also can boost the heck out of HBW :)
 
So use of piracetam doesn't cause quite as unpredictable a potentiation as it does with other psychedelics? Cause most things I've read have warned against using piracetam because of how unpredictable the trip can become.
I really loved the mix of 3 grams syrian rue with 15 grams MG. Sat in my bed the entire time listening to a binaural beat generator in some headphones and entered a deeeep trance.

And how did that tea bag method work for you?
 
I didn't get to try the MG teabag extraction method over the weekend on my friend like I'd hoped. Fri. night he had a huge fight with his gf and was mopey the whole weekend and didn't think he was in the right mindset to want to try MG tea anymore. And I certainly wasn't going to try to pressure him into trying it anyway. Perhaps next weekend he'll have an impulse to give the MG tea a shot. He's a very unpredictable impulsive guy so I can't really predict.

I'm suprised he trusts me enough to try MG's considering I recommended HBW to him months ago and he had a HORRIBLY physically unpleasant trip on it. I had no idea his body would react so toxically to HBW. I'd given him 15 ground up HBW seeds in capsules and he ended up having what he described as the worst nausea and cramps of his life. At points he worried he'd die and I really saw fear in his eyes.

I knew from personal experience and the experience of friends that HBW could cause pretty extreme nausea and cramps but what happened to him was much much more severe. It made me wonder if his blood vessels are already naturally constricted and if HBW made the vasoconstriction extreme.

I'm confident though that his body will handle MG fine as I don't find MG to cause any cramps and much milder nausea than HBW. And the fact I'm going to extract MG's actives into water for him hopefully will filter out the nausea and vasoconstriction causing alkaloids, leaving for a physically clean trip.

To anyone afraid of trying HBW because of the potential for nausea and vasoconstriction- order Madagascar HBW from a certain vendor you can PM me about. The Madagascar HBW I tried 3 or 4 times and they felt MUCH physically cleaner than the Hawaiian variety with very little nausea and no cramps. Not to mention the Madagascar seeds were much more psychedelic and potent. Start with only 5-8 seeds with these buggers...
 
Oh yeah, and by the way, Piracetam has never seemed to make HBW or MG more chaotic or overwhelming for me at all. If anything Piracetam makes the trip mentally clearer, cleaner and more focused. However, maybe I just respond better to combining Piracetam with psychedelics than most people. *shrugs* Like I've combined high doses of Piracetam with blotter, MDxx's, 2CE or Psilocybe on various occasions and never noticed a dark, confusing potentiation like some describe.

I wonder how many of these folks had bad trips not because of the combination but just because of their set/setting at the time. Maybe their mind simply wasn't prepared that day to handle a trip and they dosed too high on their psychedelic.

I consider it kind of alarmist that some of the people who had freakouts when combining Piracetam with Ergolines or 2Cxx's have gone around the forums posting horror stories with the moral at the end that this will inevitably happen to others just because it happened to them. These people should have tried the combo of Piracetam and psychedelics a few times in controlled conditions before jumping to the conclusion that it was the reason for their bad trips. Because of these horror stories I fear many people who otherwise might be curious about potentiating psychedelics with smart drugs like Piracetam won't work up the courage to try the combo and they'll really be missing out.

If you're curious about combinining Piracetam with a psychedelic try using 3-5 grams of Piracetam a day for a few days so it builds up in your system than the day of your trip take like 2.5-3.5 grams of Piracetam on an empty stomach an hour or 2 before your trip.

A few days of taking 4.5-9 mg of Hydergine a day and then taking 9-13.5 mg of Hydergine an hour before a trip also produces a nice potentiation.

I'd be willing to bet Deprenyl might boost certain Tryptamine psychedelics nicely as well :)
 
Your best bet is to read up on some trip reports. Morning glories don't agree with most people, it's a very different experience. LSA is actually scheduled as a narcotic and not a hallucinogen; the intense sedation that a lot of people feel when they are done properly is disagreeable to people "just looking to have a good time".
My next suggestion would be to look up pretty much anything morninggloryseed (the bluelight user) has to say about them.
I will say that my personal experience with them was enjoyable, though :)
 
You may be referring partially to me... I have combined piracetam with psychedelics 3 times. The first created a wildly altered 2C-E trip... I had used 2C-E a number of times at the same dose, and none had been mentally intense at all, and the one with piracetam was just... out of this world. A great trip but terrifying (not a bad trip by any means). next, I combined piracetam and 5-MeO-MiPT and instead of a trip of any sort I felt exactly like I had the flu for 4-6 hours. Lastly, I combined it with 2C-B and had a strange, unsettling experience that wasn't bad but felt just plain wrong. So my exprience has been that combining piracetam with psychedelics is unpredictable. Granted I haven't tried it with the ergolines... many people say it's fine for them. But considering this is a harm reduction board, I thought it prudent to post the warning of a 3-trial test.

Also, nanobrain, who knows a lot about nootropics, also recommends strongly against it.

Of course we are probably all affected differently. But it just doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
 
Alright cool, thanks for the info guys. If I am going to try it I will make sure to start everything at very low doses. I am just very curious about how different things effect different psychedelics.
 
I guess it just goes to show how different our brain chemistries are and how differently our psyches handle the various psychedelics. Maybe Piracetam didn't fuck with my 2CE trips simply because I always handled 2CE really easily, it felt natural to my mind and very controllable.

At the point that I started frequently using Piracetam with 2CE I'd already 2CE'd many many times at the dosage range of 30-50 mg, though one night I went through nearly 100 mg spread over the course of a night/morning (that night was a waste by the way as prob. over 50 or 60 milligrams of the 100 went up my nose and if you've ever sniffed dozens of milligrams of 2CE spread over a night an ENORMOUS tolerance very quickly develops). I guess if I'd been new to 2CE and still very sensitive to it and had preloaded on Piracetam maybe then it could have felt overwhelming and unpleasant?

So, I can understand the mental load from combining Piracetam with psychedelics but this toxic body load you speak of baffles me. Why would Piracetam make any of the psychedelics you mentioned feel more physically toxic? Do these psychedelics ever feel physically toxic alone? Are you sure the body load might not have been a physiological reaction to panicking from the combined effects of Piracetam and the psychedelics?

Myself I've been amazed how Piracetam has combined cleanly for me many times now with various batches of MDxx tablets and some of these tablets were pretty speedy and dirty yet I didn't find there to be any added body load when using Piracetam versus when using the tabs alone.

I wonder how much of my positive experiences combining Piracetam with psychedelics has to do with the fact usually when I trip I'm on a whole lot of vitamins, fish oil and other stuff (like CoQ10, Taurine, Niacinamide). Xorkoth, if you ever worry about getting a toxic bodyload from tripping try taking a few grams of Taurine and/or a few grams of Niacinamide. These will calm one down and lower one's pulse and blood pressure and make the trip more controllable.

The beauty of supplements like these is they're very mentally subtle so they won't bring down your trip but just smooth it out. L-Theanine would prob. work well too I just rarely use it since it's so expensive. These supps work great on the comedown too but if you want a potent way to come down turn to Phenibut or Neurontin. Other good comedown adds to eliminate the post-trip insomnia are Melatonin and 5-HTP. And there's always the herbal route like Kava, Kratom, Blue Lotus, Pedicularis, etc.

Oh, and Kratom is always an excellent way to smooth out a trip (don't overdo it though because just as with opiates if you dose way too high it can weaken the psychedelia). Does wonders for smoothing out the body load of stuff like MDxx's :) Oh and Kratom with psychedelics is a GRRRREAT aphrodisiac combo.

I'd love to know how nootropics and supplements would affect DMT, Ayahuasca or Salvia.

Soon I'll see how Blue Lotus combines with tripping. I have a feeling the combo might be magical.
 
Phenibut combines well with psychedelics, for sure... it adds a relaxed, euphoric, carefree element, while making you a bit more loopy in a good way.
 
I have my 10 HBWR seeds I was talking about earlier :D, but this time they have some sort of peel around them, should I grind these skins or remove them? Sorry if this question was already answered but I'm in a hurry so don't have enough time to search right now.
 
I really think it's irrelevant whether one peels this outer coating off HBW. I've run experiments where I ingested the same dosage of the same batch of HBW at times without the shell and other times with the shell and noticed no difference at all in the amount of nausea. There's no easy magical way around the nausea... You're just going to have to tough it out.

The first few hrs I usually play videogames or watch movies to get my mind off the nausea. Lying down, closing your eyes and doing breathing exercises can help too. Fasting before the trip helps a lot too. And there's always Ginger tea or some puffs of MJ. Me, I'd like to get some of this crystallized Ginger stuff I keep hearing about.

Make sure your seeds are super finely ground and packed in capsules. I find if I dump the seeds directly in my mouth they wreck far more havoc on my stomach than in capsules.
 
Thanks for the information :), currently waiting for the comeup on my 10 seeds while drinking a good red wine and feeling not much nausea. I had a reasonably sized meal 3 hours before ingestion and took a gaviscon tablet to prevent nausea. Also just cut the little seeds with skins and all up into tiny bits with a scissor (works perfectly!) and put 2 of them in a gelcap and swallowed 5 of those gelcaps.

Now it's just relaxing on BL and wait for the trip to begin... :) Still have Salvia 5x if these seeds were bunk (different vendor) so I'll be tripping this night whatever happens =D

BTW a Chilean Cabernet Sauvignon Merlot from 2007 is a great red wine if you're into it, I'd recommend it to anyone who drinks wine :)

Last time I only took 6, so I'm expecting a stronger trip this time. Luckily I have a sitter hanging around the house and have some benzo's ready if things might go wrong so I'm not nervous at all, just feeling great and mellow already =D
 
I've been experimenting with making LSH from LSA in dreams, and something seems to be happening...it only took me 1.5 years to try it myself after suggesting this idea a very long time ago hypothetically...since then others have made some reports, I didn't know whether or not to believe them, but now I do:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/8446365/an/0/page/0

This all started when I read a thread by morninggloryseed and fastandbulbous discussing lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide here.

I did two hypothetical controlled experiments over the course of 2 weeks to determine if the added mint makes a difference, and sure enough it did...I was blown away by the difference in effects. I was so skeptical that I basically ignored the reported internet reports for more than a year.

Please, if anyone else tries this in dreams, post your results.
 
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I'm confused as to what form of peppermint to use in my extraction if i want to convert the LSA's to LSH. Is it better to use peppermint oil, peppermint extract or peppermint tea. And at what type of store and in what department would I find these?

So, Tregar, all I need to do is put my ground MG seeds in a tea bag (or 2 or 3 depending on how many seeds I use) submerged in the bottom of a container of purified water with a few drops of lemon juice added and some form of peppermint, stir and shake it every 10 minutes, then squeeze out the bags after an hour?

You say soaking for too many hours will extract unwanted, nauseating alkaloids right? You're sure soaking for only an hour is enough time to pull out all the psychoactive alkaloids though?

Would you say a normal water extraction of MG leaves one with a more sedating/less visual product than if one were to just eat the seeds? Yet, the water extract with peppermint added, if successful, will make for a visual, energetic trip because of the LSA's conversion to LSH?

I'm trying to ascertain why it would be advantageous to do your described water extraction rather than just eating the seeds. I know if I eat the seeds I guarantee I get all the alkaloids whereas if I do an extraction surely there will be some loss.

I will def. try your water extraction technique on my friends, as they have weak stomachs and I seriously doubt they would tolerate well the severity of nausea eating the seeds causes.

I seem to recall that someone, perhaps it was you, described in one of their MG water extraction descriptions on a Mycotopia thread that when they made MG tea after they squeezed the tea bags out at the end of the extraction they would then put their MG water in a blender to blend for a few mins. Is there a reason it would help the potency of the MG water extract to be blended like this?

I always really appreciate your posts to various forums about your experiences with MG and extractions. It's nice to see someone going out of their way to spread the knowledge they've gained to the various popular drug forums. Hopefully, we can inspire more and more intelligent, responsible psychonauts to dive into the world of MG/HBW/Rivea. Though the downside is young, foolish idiots could read our posts, consume LSA containing seeds, freak out and get hospitalized or arrested and give MG/HBW/Rivea bad media attention eventually getting these precious seeds banned :(

I notice you post mainly about MG's, not HBW. If you ever need advice on consuming HBW I'm your guy. I've consumed the buggers probably 30 something times now in the last year and tried seeds from 6 different vendors.

I really think when it comes to HBW that an extraction is entirely unnecessary. I find that if you get high enough quality HBW that there's MUCH less nausea and body load present. This suggests to me that different strains of HBW have different alkaloid profiles, some being higher in the nauseating alkaloids than others.

Oh, also, contrary to what most people say HBW isn't always sedating and can be quite visual. Yes, most batches of HBW I've had have been pretty sedating but some batches are actually pretty stimulating and visual. It really varies. Again, a sign of the different alkaloid profiles.

Seek out the Madagascar strain of HBW if you want a more visual, stimulating, euphoric trip. I'm curious what the Dominican Republic strain is like as I'm yet to try it.
 
You may want to also add about 1/4 shot of everclear, if there is an acetaldehyde molecule being adducted onto the LSA, the only way it will stabilize (according to the adducts paper) is if there is a small amount of alcohol present. This could come from the secondary alcohol (menthol) but it's unlikely, best to add some primary alcohol (everlcear) grain alcohol to simulate the low level of fermentation of the barley in the kykeon. Water + acetaldehyde + alcohol is needed according to the research paper. Please refer to the links on peppermint from the book the genus menthus I linked to, there are 21 aldehydes in peppermint oil, but I don't think the amounts are necessarily measurable, I'm just as confused about this as everyone else, all I know is that it does work. Like I said, I was highly skeptical at first, until I tried it. Let us know if you have results. I don't use HBWR just because I don't have any, but I have bags of MG seeds put away, that's the only reason. Plus the MG seeds have a long history of Shamanic use.

There is really no reason for me to have even tried this as I have access to all different methods of tripping, it's just that I took an historical interest in all this, and was impressed to say the least. Good to see you again Wizard! I ran two controlled experiments over the course of two weeks, one with mint, and one without...and the one with mint was great, I would do it again, but I was not impressed with the normal non-mint LSA extraction. I'm not gonna beat people over the head with my results or try and get people to try this, but since I was impressed with experiment #1, I thought I'd share my results. Other people had tried this in the past after I brought it up, I went and did other things, came back only to discover that they were having results, so I thought I'd try it myself.

It's very possible that when you guys are eating the seeds you are actually getting more of the natural lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide. Researchers believe that it is the extraction of the seeds that gives the apparent results that there is mostly LSA instead of LSH inside them. The LSH comes apart even with mild extractions since it is a labile adduct of LSA and acetaldehyde in the seeds. However, my theory is/was an attempt to put the pieces back together, and when I found the research paper on adducts I then knew that this was theoretically possible. Morninggory in many of his threads kept mentioning that he got better effects when eating the seeds as opposed to extracting them. Now I think I understand what is going on. I agree with morninggloryseed that normal water extractions on the seeds are sedating and not very psychedelic, but when I did my experiment with the added mild alcohol and mint extract, the results were VERY different, I felt mild stimulation for 6+ hours, euphoric, and was tripping mildly. Music was particularly enjoyable, and colors appeared quite different (more artificial) than normal. There was no pronounced sedation like a normal LSA extraction, instead it was mildly stimulating and enjoyable.
 
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