Dissociatives The Big & Dandy Diphenidine Thread

[crOOk]

Haha I guess you're right. I should be more neutral.

Also I was quite high when I wrote those comments, I might have exaggerated. It was good fun. I've left the pipe aside for now since it's obviously something that you can redose compulsively. (possible opioid or dopaminergic activity?)

So yeah people, you've got these two equally valid ROAs, smoke it and get a feel-good high or eat it and go batshit crazy. Not taking any sides here.

Yeah smoking PCP which is comparable I would say is also very habit forming. Once I had started, I didn't let go of that pipe for almost 4 months, even smoked low doses at work (as a physical therapist). I can imagine diphenidine to be very similar in that respect.

 

[aminophilous]

Agreed about the habit forming properties. Yesterday afternoon and all day today I was thinking about smoking it again but have decided not to. I'll let a few days pass before doing it again. I can see how it could be a drug that you can do at work, especially if it's a boring job. It also seems to inhibit appetite so it's important to remember to eat.

On another topic, I'm beginning to think that combining with psychs is not such a bad idea after all, in fact it might be a very very good idea! Check this out: Serotonergic agents that activate 5HT2A receptors prevent NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity. In the full text they explain that 5HT2a activation seems to be linked to anti-psychotic effects while 5HT2c activation is mostly responsible for the visuals in LSD and promotes psychotic symptoms! Also they've observed neuroprotective effects when co-administering MK-801 with DOI. I think an in vivo experiment with DOI and diphenidine is in order, mainly to determine if such a combination is practical, since it seems like it would be very safe in terms of toxicity, according to hard science! Will report back soon.

 

[crOOk]

Agreed about the habit forming properties. Yesterday afternoon and all day today I was thinking about smoking it again but have decided not to. I'll let a few days pass before doing it again. I can see how it could be a drug that you can do at work, especially if it's a boring job. It also seems to inhibit appetite so it's important to remember to eat.

On another topic, I'm beginning to think that combining with psychs is not such a bad idea after all, in fact it might be a very very good idea! Check this out: Serotonergic agents that activate 5HT2A receptors prevent NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity. In the full text they explain that 5HT2a activation seems to be linked to anti-psychotic effects while 5HT2c activation is mostly responsible for the visuals in LSD and promotes psychotic symptoms! Also they've observed neuroprotective effects when co-administering MK-801 with DOI. I think an in vivo experiment with DOI and diphenidine is in order, mainly to determine if such a combination is practical, since it seems like it would be very safe in terms of toxicity, according to hard science! Will report back soon.

From the abstract:

It is proposed that 5HT2A agonists may also prevent the psychotomimetic effects of NMDA antagonists. Among the 5HT2A agonists examined and found to be neuroprotective are LSD and related hallucinogens. The apparent contradiction in proposing that these agents might have antipsychotic properties is resolved by evidence linking their hallucinogenic activity to agonist action at 5HT2C receptors, whereas antipsychotic activity would be attributable to agonist action at 5HT2A receptors.

I'm pretty sure that last part isn't entirely true, article is from 1998. From what I know the psychedelic effects were linked to 5HT2A, but then there are psychedelics that are an exception like LSD. I'm not sure if it's entirely clear where those effects come from. Either way that would mean that some of the psychotomimetic aspects would still have to be significantly attenuated which I am pretty sure can be perceived by an experienced psychonaut even with the psychedelic effects from the serotonergic drug being present. In my experience that isn't the case, but while I'm very familiar with both psychedelics and dissociatives to say the least, my experience with combining the two classes is limited to maybe a dozen experiences.

Anyway, amazing synergy. Nothing one should do with high frequency though. I'm not too worried about frying my brain personally since I try to keep my use occasional and recreational. Habitual use, multiple times per week or even daily definitely doesn't seem like a very good idea, especially not with a monster like diphenidine that hasn't even been researched properly.

 

[aminophilous]

From what I know the psychedelic effects were linked to 5HT2A, but then there are psychedelics that are an exception like LSD.

I also thought that psychedelic effects are mostly mediated by 5HT2a, not 2c, as did the authors, but their findings suggested otherwise. Anyway my post was tongue-in-cheek, I was just trying to say "hey, look, I'm going to try DOI & diph because of science"!

In all seriousness, I think it might be fun to take DOI, wait about 6 hours till the trip is well underway, and then smoke some diphenidine. But I don't want to waste my precious LSD for an experiment that might turn out to be a fail.

I'm not too worried about frying my brain personally since I try to keep my use occasional and recreational. Habitual use, multiple times per week or even daily definitely doesn't seem like a very good idea, especially not with a monster like diphenidine that hasn't even been researched properly.

This is soo true. Diph definitely seems like it could be a destructive drug in the long term. Even though the whole idea of NMDA antagonism causing real, measurable toxicity or Olney's leasons in primates is still open to debate, at least for dissociatives that have not been studied extensively. In fact I would argue from personal experience that even cannabis shouldn't be used with too high a frequency. Not because of any direct toxicity but because of behavioural changes. We've all here done stupid things in the past but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

To give others reading this a rough measure of the addictive potential of diph, I want to say that I used it frequently over the past week and I ended up slightly craving it for about two days after last use. Last summer I (ab)used vicodin, codeine and heroin for about a week and the withdrawal I experienced afterwards was at about the same level. Nothing unmanageable, but I can see how it can go out of hand if you don't impose limits to your self.

In fact I think this should be the main take-away message about diphenidine for people reading this thread, that it can be fun if you like dissos, but can also be habit forming, a lot more so than, say, ketamine. What a sneaky, surreal substance!

 

[Listening]

My intention was to do try to vaporize ~15 mg tonight and see what that was like. I started with what can't be more than 1 mg followed by another 3 mg, just as a sort of safety check. However, with just 4 mg, I quickly felt pretty high and didn't want to go further tonight. Now don't get me wrong: I only got the slightest hint of a dissociative space as such; a tease really. Nevertheless, when combined with weed, I was quiet high.. I was also stimulated, if slow. I stayed up late, worked on a photo project (that I had hoped to do), and had a good time.

I would try more tomorrow night, but I need my sleep these days and it's probably not the best of ideas. We'll see. The (tiny) hint that I did get of the dissociative buzz (literally) was nice and beckoning. My favorite thing about MXE is the DMT-like vibration. Getting lost in meditation there... is ecstasy. If DP has such a space, I with to experience it.

I don't particularly want to lose my head; just let go of it.

 

[aminophilous]

@Listening I'm not surprised that you got high from vaporising such a small amount. You are wise to take it slow, when vaped, diphenidine is quite potent. At first it works mostly as a dissociative and brings about some confusion and amnesia, but if you do it repeatedly over several days (and you presumably get tolerance on your NMDAs), then it feels increasingly more like a very, very potent psychostimulant and analgesic opioid. Expect all the effects of amphetamine-like parasympathetic stimulation: Appetite supression, increased confidence/social skills, tirelessness, insomnia etc, although it doesn't really make you feel "tweeked" or "wired" in an unpleasant way. I remember thinking to myself, this is way too good to be true, there's gotta be a harsh comedown waiting for me around the corner.

I remember reading on a vendor's site (admittedly not the most reliable source) that it blocks DAT, and also if you check the wikipedia entry on diphenidine, two of the similar compounds mentioned under "see also", i.e. Lefetamine and MT-45, are potent opioids besides being NMDA antagonists. So yeah, get ready for an addictive feel-good high that can last for days. I haven't experienced much in terms of withdrawal symptoms as far as I can tell, but still, be careful. There's also this anecdotal report on reddit which describes its addictive potential as very high.

The wiki article on Lefetamine says

it showed some effect against opioid withdrawal symptoms without causing withdrawal symptoms itself.

As much as I want to believe that there are opioids out there that don't cause withdrawal symptoms, there's a part of me that just knows better. Also, I think it has all the antidepressant qualities of Ketamine, even in very low doses.

And people claim that with rediculously extensive use, diphenidine can cause bladder damage just like Ketamine, but I couldn't find hard info on that.

So. That, in terms of warnings! Other than that, yeah, it's a pretty cool drug. Certainly the best RC that I have tried. The tricky part is that for a while it makes you feel superhuman with no apparent side effects. Common sense says that there's got to be a downside though.

Enjoy and be safe, buddy.

 

[crOOk]

Oh god I fucked up so hard. While I do like to indulge in high doses of dissociatives occasionally, fuckups like these are not usually my style. Here is what happened...

So I had waited about 4-8 weeks since my last dose of diphenidine and have had some 2-meo-diphenidine lying around for a few days. After dropping my daughter off at kindergarten on thursday, knowing I'd have more than a full day for myself, I felt confident enough to dive into 2-MeO-Diphenidine. I initially tried smoking around 40mg to see if there'd be any noteworthy serotonergic action since I have heard such rumours and am currently taking venlafaxine and lithium.

After that went fine and with minimal effects, I started off by dosing 155mg 2-MeO-Diphenidine at T+0:00. The effect were much less intense than I had inticipated. For some reason I remembered having an appointment in around 2h time. Hesitant at first, I quickly made up my mind that I'd be fully capable of taking a taxi to the location of my meeting. LOL! I called a cab, stumbled outside and somehow made my way inside the ride. After riding towards my destination for around 30min I got a call that the appointment was cancelled, so I rode back home.

At home it seemed like a no brainer to dose another 245mg 2-MeO-Diphenidine, to make for an even 400mg. When that again fell short of my expectations I threw 200mg diphenidine into the mix. I felt pretty fine throughout the entire ride, despite being underwhelmed by the effects.

Right before going to bed I wasn't sure if I had taken my lithium dosage, so I skipped it just to be safe.

The next day I woke up with a splitting headache, absolutely destroyed. I had an appointment at the clinic later where I had some blood drawn. It turned out my lithium levels had skyrocketed from the usual 0.9-1.0mmol/L to 1.7mmol/L, which I can only explain by having taken 2 doses the night before. 1.7mmol/L is well into the toxic range which is probably why I slept from friday noon until saturday noon, drinking a total of 7L of water during that time to fight off my splitting headache. Memory of the entire episode is cloudy at best, eventhough i was functioning very well (e.g. I had a psychotherapy session of which i barely remember anything).

I'm just really fucking glad I didn't take that third dose of lithium, which would've meant highly toxic lithium levels. I don't know how much of my headache, lethargy and amnesia was due to lithium and how much to the dissociatives.

I'll be taking more precautions for myself the next time I take this stuff, e.g. predosing my meds and putting a note on the box, putting a note on the door "DO NOT LEAVE THE APARTMENT!", stuff like that.

Despite probably ignoring such advice myself, I'd really recommend anyone, no matter how experienced with dissociatives, to have a tripsitter!

 

[GodSpeedK]

putting a note on the door "DO NOT LEAVE THE APARTMENT!", stuff like that.

haha, funny you say that because I've just left a note of caution by the front door after I went out on MXP and was a reckless embarrassment to society.

 

[aminophilous]

Oh no, crOOk buddy, I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad time, at least it sounds like you're OK now and no harm was done.

Know that we've all done stupid things, even if we're more knowledgeable than the average drug user. I myself came very close to death one time when I was at university. After finishing exams I mixed a few too many 10mg valiums with a lot of alcohol. I never mixed benzos with alcohol again since, and have since treated benzos with a lot more respect, only keeping them for emergencies. I'm sure your experience will teach you to be more careful in the future because you sound like a generally responsible adult. These are potent mind-bending drugs we're using and they have the potential to make a fool out of anyone.

On a lighter note, I was not aware of diphenidine having serotonergic activity. I'm beginning to wonder are there *any* receptors that are safe from this drug? Seems like quite a broad binding profile.

I wonder why your lithium level was high, could it be that you didn't take it twice, but some protein that metabolises it was saturated by the other drugs you took? I know nothing about the metabolism and excretion of lithium but it sounds like a possibility.

Also, can you please compare diphenidine and 2-MeO-diphenidine for us? I'm very curious to know.

EDIT: Reading your post again, I had another theory.

Sorry for the constant wild speculation, but this is a harm-reduction site and I think it's important to discuss the details of your bad experience as much as possible here. Others might benefit from it.

If indeed diphenidine has serotonergic activity, and since you had taken venlafaxine which is an SSRI, and lithium which increases serotonin synthesis, is it not possible that you might have had a serotonin syndrome? Do you think the symptoms you experienced matched those of serotonin syndrome? Again, in my stupid years I once took a fluoxetine that someone gave me and somehow thought it would be fun to mix it with some L-tryptophan, my theory at the time being that more serotonin = better high. After a very strong headache, sweating and overheating I think I may have slept for days although to this day I'm not exactly sure what happened. I was a know-it-all idiot and I got punished for it.

 

[crOOk]

Oh no, crOOk buddy, I'm sorry to hear you had such a bad time, at least it sounds like you're OK now and no harm was done.

Know that we've all done stupid things, even if we're more knowledgeable than the average drug user. I myself came very close to death one time when I was at university. After finishing exams I mixed a few too many 10mg valiums with a lot of alcohol. I never mixed benzos with alcohol again since, and have since treated benzos with a lot more respect, only keeping them for emergencies. I'm sure your experience will teach you to be more careful in the future because you sound like a generally responsible adult. These are potent mind-bending drugs we're using and they have the potential to make a fool out of anyone.

On a lighter note, I was not aware of diphenidine having serotonergic activity. I'm beginning to wonder are there *any* receptors that are safe from this drug? Seems like quite a broad binding profile.

I wonder why your lithium level was high, could it be that you didn't take it twice, but some protein that metabolises it was saturated by the other drugs you took? I know nothing about the metabolism and excretion of lithium but it sounds like a possibility.

Also, can you please compare diphenidine and 2-MeO-diphenidine for us? I'm very curious to know.

EDIT: Reading your post again, I had another theory.

Sorry for the constant wild speculation, but this is a harm-reduction site and I think it's important to discuss the details of your bad experience as much as possible here. Others might benefit from it.

If indeed diphenidine has serotonergic activity, and since you had taken venlafaxine which is an SSRI, and lithium which increases serotonin synthesis, is it not possible that you might have had a serotonin syndrome? Do you think the symptoms you experienced matched those of serotonin syndrome? Again, in my stupid years I once took a fluoxetine that someone gave me and somehow thought it would be fun to mix it with some L-tryptophan, my theory at the time being that more serotonin = better high. After a very strong headache, sweating and overheating I think I may have slept for days although to this day I'm not exactly sure what happened. I was a know-it-all idiot and I got punished for it.

Thanks for your concern, it wasn't really such a bad time until the next day when I experienced the lithium side effects (was mostly that headache and some major lethargy). I counted my remaining pills and I definitely took a double dose. The measured lithium level supports this as well. Lithium doesn't get metabolised at all, it's simply excreted through the kidneys, similarly to how sodium ions are excreted.

I've had serotonin syndrome a few times and it is very easily recognized as such. There wasn't even a hint of any additional serotonergic activity, judging by how I felt. I also took my temperature a few times and it was normal.

I'm really not a big fan of these wild and unsubstantiated speculations about the pharmacodynamics of a novel substance like these two (not referring to your speculations regarding what could've happened, that's definitely a good approach). Sure there is a chance this has some serotonergic or dopaminergic activity (the latter being much more likely!), but there simply is no evidence to support this. I guess theorizing can be a good thing if it prevents people from combining the respective substance with other drugs, but it's easy to start very persistent rumors like this.

What happened was really just
regular dose --> disinhibiting and reinforcing properties of 2-meo-diphenidine along with an inability to reflect on my state --> multiple redoses --> amnesia --> double dose of my lithium

Btw I do know a lot about harm reduction and would generally say I at least KNOW how to be responsible. Yet there have always been those moments in my life during which I behaved extremely reckless, as if the entire part of my brain that makes me reconsider what im doing had been removed. usually this involves ethanol intoxications, but ive also pulled off some really dumb shit while i was sober. Its really a miracle im alive and have never been to jail looking back at some of those things. Now with these two dissociatives i find myself acting in ways i never wouldve imagined. no amount of precautions seems to prepare me for it either.

About the comparison... I will try, but it's very hard to do so after only one trial of the methoxylated compound. 2-MeO-Diphenidine definitely had a more pleasant body feeling to it, but I never felt as deeply dissociated as with diphenidine; music was greatly enhanced in a way that is completely unfamilar to me from dissociatives, more common to stimulants. mentally it felt very calm, clear and kind of meditative to me, while diphenidine tends to bring on the heavy shit: depersonalisation, confusion and some very surreal states that remind me of dreaming in a way.
For a feelgood drug I would guess 2-meo-diphenidine is a lot more desirable for most people, but those who are into blasting themselves as far out of reality as possible, diphenidine seems to be the way to go.

 

[Solipsis]

Do you not keep track of how much lithium you have and how much you have taken?

I don't think it could have been metabolic issues since Lithium is an ion of one atom, there is nothing to metabolize about it like molecules made up of different atoms. I guess it would have to be a kidney issue.

Lefetamine is implied to be neurotoxic in some study though I can't really find any good info about the proof... I really hope diphenidine isn't.

Have not tried diphenidine yet myself, I think I will only do it when I am not regularly taking other things like kratom (taking bipolar medications together with stuff like this just sounds very generally unwise by the way). And I will want to have a trip sitter, at the very least someone who is aware of me staying put at home, like my roommate who would hear it if I would leave through the front door.

[fyi @ lefetamine neurotoxicity - this study: Synthesis, Neuropsychopharmacological Effects and Analgesic-Antiinflammatory Activities of Pyrrole Analogues of Lefetamine]

The lipophilic structure of diphenidine and analogues seems kinda tricky as well, it just binds so damn long to stuff.

 

[crOOk]

Do you not keep track of how much lithium you have and how much you have taken?

I don't think it could have been metabolic issues since Lithium is an ion of one atom, there is nothing to metabolize about it like molecules made up of different atoms. I guess it would have to be a kidney issue.

Lefetamine is implied to be neurotoxic in some study though I can't really find any good info about the proof... I really hope diphenidine isn't.

Have not tried diphenidine yet myself, I think I will only do it when I am not regularly taking other things like kratom (taking bipolar medications together with stuff like this just sounds very generally unwise by the way). And I will want to have a trip sitter, at the very least someone who is aware of me staying put at home, like my roommate who would hear it if I would leave through the front door.

[fyi @ lefetamine neurotoxicity - this study: Synthesis, Neuropsychopharmacological Effects and Analgesic-Antiinflammatory Activities of Pyrrole Analogues of Lefetamine]

The lipophilic structure of diphenidine and analogues seems kinda tricky as well, it just binds so damn long to stuff.

Lol not sure if you have read my reply there.
"Do you not keep track of how much lithium you have and how much you have taken?" - "I counted my remaining pills and I definitely took a double dose."
"I don't think it could have been metabolic issues since Lithium is an ion of one atom, there is nothing to metabolize about it like molecules made up of different atoms." - "Lithium doesn't get metabolised at all, it's simply excreted through the kidneys, similarly to how sodium ions are excreted."

Lithium affects a wide range of organs, not just the kidneys. Kidneys, thyroid, cns, immune system, everything really. The headache, lethargy and polydipsia are all classical signs of a lithium intoxication. It wasn't severe enough to have caused any lasting damage, but it sure gave me a scare. If I had taken that third dose, I could've run into some very serious trouble. On the following I still wasn't sure if I had taken any at all that night and even (quite ironically) stated in hospital that we should probably measure the levels another day, since I might have skipped my dose on the day before.^^

 

[Solipsis]

I meant that since the kidneys are involved with excretion, that was the only thing I can think of being affected causing less lithium to be filtered out. But you already cleared up that it was the double dose and not renal deficiency.

 

[aminophilous]

I meant that since the kidneys are involved with excretion, that was the only thing I can think of being affected causing less lithium to be filtered out. But you already cleared up that it was the double dose and not renal deficiency.

Agreed. In retrospect you are of course correct; it doesn't make sense for an atomic element to be metabolised. This is why at first I said

I know nothing about the metabolism and excretion of lithium

As you pointed out, it could also have been a matter of kidneys being busy with filtering other stuff, but since crOOk took a double dose, mystery is solved.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised myself if Diphenidine was neurotoxic. Even though it has been patented as a neuroprotective. Or it could be both at the same time, protecting some neurons while frying others. The toxicity debate is still going on for some chemicals that have been with us for ages and have been studied extensively. And the addition or removal of a single atom can often have wild effects on the toxicity of a molecule. So any theory about diphenidine is just that, a theory, and therefore is likely to start "wild and unsubstantiated speculations about the pharmacodynamics of a novel substance" which is likely to annoy crOOk

I want to stress again how much perfectly wonderful and addictive it was for me when vapourised. I ended up smoking it over the entire past week, feeling better and better, confident, social, laughing and joking all the time, thinking more and more clearly, being productive and getting stuff done, I felt stimulated almost as if on an amphetamine but weirdly without any insomnia, and generally it was just too good to be true. Till I noticed I was doing it every few hours, with no dissociative effects whatsoever, but with amasing euphoria that lasted for less and less after every successful redosing. I've decided to stop using it on Saturday just to see if there's any downside to the heaven I was experiencing. I've been thinking about it all the time since. I used a lot more than I had intended (went through about a gram in a little over a week I think). Over the weekend I experienced mild withdrawal symptoms, mostly pain all over my body, also felt as if I had a slight fever or high blood pressure (didn't bother to measure it though), and some slight discomfort when I peed (ketamine-like bladder damage??). Today is Monday and after some rest, all negative symptoms have subsided. There is nothing negative about my mood right now besides the fact that my brain keeps coming up with lame excuses about why I should smoke some more. Keeping myself occupied with work and other stuff sure helps. I guess some good old cannabis could also help right now if I had access to some. I think I will have a strong psychedelic trip over the weekend, psychs usually help me in these mini-battles with miscellaneous addictions. Next time I use diphenidine will be after a long while and only after I'm sure I've stopped craving it, and even then I will have to remember to impose limits on my use. On the bright side, the window of sociability and confidence that diphenidine gave me resulted in me making a few new friends and even passing a very demanding aptitude test and interview for a much better job than the one I currently have. I will know for sure if they hired me in a few days, but they were impressed with me and I feel I owe half of my success to diphenidine. I think the most addictive substances are the ones that make you behave like a better person in your regular life. My only wish is that I will soon forget how easy life feels when you're on this stuff. I'm posting this as a warning to others but also to commit to myself about the break that I decided to take from my honeymoon with diph.

@crOOk: Sorry for making wild theories, I know this is how rumors get started but still it's important that you pinpointed exactly what had happened. I was just offering theories so that you maybe could pick the correct one and therefore we could avoid the rumor-creating part which I also hate. Again I'm really glad you're fine now.

 

[crOOk]

I meant that since the kidneys are involved with excretion, that was the only thing I can think of being affected causing less lithium to be filtered out. But you already cleared up that it was the double dose and not renal deficiency.

Oh yes that makes sense now and it does actually happen in patients who receive lithium and whose kidney function isn't monitored. :D

Btw I didn't want to take the thread OT and turn this about a discussion of my raised lithium levels, but was trying to show what a miserable state my overindulgence in these two dissociatives put me in. The taking a cab across Germany on the peak of my trip was probably even more concerning.^^

@aminophilous
I might've given you the wrong idea there. I'm actually a fan of wild theories, but it's awful when people start to recite them and assume they are valid simply because they read someone elses post. It tends to reach a critical momentum and misinformation spreads. This usually happens when someone mentions the name of a monoamine in combination with a novel research chemical.^^

I also wouldn't be surprised if diphenidine was neurotoxic, but it also wouldn't keep me off the substance altogether. Ethanol and it's metabolites are neurotoxic and nobody seems to take that into consideration when it comes to getting wasted lol. If a brain is being used the way it is intended to be used, it can compensate for a whole lot of damage it seems. If on the other hand someone hangs around watching tv all day long, he will soon give the impression of an imbecile, no matter how intact his brain may be.

However there are of course substances out there (e.g. MPTP) that cause rapid and severe damage that will bring functional impairment. So far, it doesn't seem like this is one of them. Let's hope it remains that way.

Very interesting stuff you have to say about inhaling diphenidine there. I wonder if it could be turning into another active compound somehow. Either way, keep your hands off PCP cause that smokes beautifully and is insanely compulsive. And god does it taste lovely.

 

[Bare_head]

Wtf crook this stuff good then? I been away from the dissociative world for a few months, i need a night to remember ;-)

 

[aminophilous]

Very interesting stuff you have to say about inhaling diphenidine there. I wonder if it could be turning into another active compound somehow. Either way, keep your hands off PCP cause that smokes beautifully and is insanely compulsive. And god does it taste lovely.

I'm telling you this stuff is insanely addictive. I can't stress this enough, for me at least it was more addictive than smoking pure #4 heroin. I can only compare it with when I was in the hospital and they had to give me IM codeine repeatedly. When it vaporises it smells and tastes like burning plastic, but after a while it seems to you like it's the sweetest thing in the world. Amazing high too. I'm glad to say I'm not craving it any more and I'm back to baseline feeling fine now. I will be more careful with it in the future.

I also thought about your theory, that maybe a pyrolysis byproduct is somehow more active, because vaporising it was nothing like eating it, but again, theories, theories lol!

I also wouldn't be surprised if diphenidine was neurotoxic, but it also wouldn't keep me off the substance altogether. Ethanol and it's metabolites are neurotoxic and nobody seems to take that into consideration when it comes to getting wasted lol. If a brain is being used the way it is intended to be used, it can compensate for a whole lot of damage it seems. If on the other hand someone hangs around watching tv all day long, he will soon give the impression of an imbecile, no matter how intact his brain may be.

However there are of course substances out there (e.g. MPTP) that cause rapid and severe damage that will bring functional impairment. So far, it doesn't seem like this is one of them. Let's hope it remains that way.

I agree with your comments about toxicity, it's always a matter of how much. Otherwise life itself is neurotoxic, when you get stressed because of some harsh event, some cells die but it's no biggie. But remember that a substance doesn't need to be neurotoxic to be dangerous. Heroin is hardly toxic but because of its addictiveness you are likely to use it so much that you die of respiratory depression. Nicotine is not very harmfull but if it causes you to inhale tar you can die of lung cancer. Diphenidine is dangerous IMO precisely because it seems so benign at first, but if you carry on doing more and more of it, probably some organ in your body will fail somehow.

I would really love to see some proper research being done on this.

What I CAN say from experience, and this is not some wild theory but a fairly educated guess, is that it binds to opioid receptors (not surprising considering the structural similarity to Lefetamine and MT-45), and it definitely messes with the catecholamine reward pathway in some way. I have no way to know if it blocks NAT or DAT or if it's simply an adrenalin agonist, but it felt a LOT like amps but without the tweekiness and insomnia, possibly because the sideeffects were masked by the opioid activity. And I don't think it touches the serotonin system to any significant degree because I didn't feel any drowsiness at any time. Again, I hope I don't start any rumours here, but I would bet money on this guess because I've experienced a wide spectrum of drugs with known binding profiles and I experienced diphenidine for several days. Maybe in a few months some paper will come out and we'll all be able to see if I was right.

Wtf crook this stuff good then? I been away from the dissociative world for a few months, i need a night to remember ;-)

My friend, "good" doesn't even begin to cover it. Read my earlier posts above.

 

[GodSpeedK]

It's really nice stuff. A whole lot better than MXP.

 

[crOOk]

T+0 250mg oral on full stomach --> onset 5min, 30min full-blown insanity
T+3h sanity creeps in, must find way back to disorder, another 250mg administered. This is by far the weirdest compound I've ever messed around with.
Yet the sadistic professor demands more experiments on my brain. must comply.

EDIT: Ok, fuck this shit. I clearly went overboard this time. More on it tomorrow.

EDIT2: Ok my latest "trial" was a complete fucking disaster. Maybe I just dosed too high. 230mg was beautiful, 250mg already caused pretty bad amnesia and wasn't very enjoyable at all. However the imaginary professor that was performing experiments on me instructed me to dose another 250mg on top of it. Fucking brilliant. A few hours later I found a very large wet spot in my bed without being able to identify how it got there (since sense of smell is usually severely impaired). I eventually figured it couldn't be urin due to the location and shape of the spot and it could not have been vomit either since it had no solids in it, so it had to be water.
Due to the high amount of diphenidine I took, but even more than that out of disgust of my behaviour that day (uncontrolled abuse of this substance) I puked a few times, all nice and clean, turned my matrass around and put a new sheet on and went back to bed brabbling "happy fucking father's day" to myself. An extraordinarily shitty experience.

It seems I simply cannot tame this beast. Everytime I take diphenidine I feel compelled to redose ridiculous amounts no matter what security measures I take beforehand to prevent me from doing so. This has never ever been an issue with other dissociatives. Even when I am with other people and tell them beforehand I end up convincing them to redose mid-experience. I think it'd be best to stop experimenting with this compound altogether.


Another note about oral time of onset. It seems that it hits me much faster when I have a full stomach than it would when taken on an empty one. I had previously noticed that taking it with a glass of milk instead of water seems to reduce the time of onset from 45-60min to 30min for me. This time I had a large pizza 5 minutes before taking the first dose and clearly felt the first effects at T+8min. At T+13min my face felt numb and some time soon after that I lost track of what happened.

 

[aminophilous]

vaped diph mixes well with (moderate doses of) vaped ethylphenidate for the kind of high that lasts for days EDIT: DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS, READ MY POST BELOW

eating healthy and exercising helps too

edit: Lately i've been feeling a lag between action and reaction, in the tactile sensation. Especially if people pass me spliffs. A bit confusing when doing complex manual stuff, like, say, trying to roll a spliff. Also pins and needles sometimes, not unpleasant, it must be from the eph but I wonder what it is and if it's dangerous. Could it be nerve endings dying or am I becoming paranoid?