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The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Three

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That's an extreme dose. Did you take that much on purpose? I've once snorted 70-100 mg, it was degraded and I thought it was barely active first, but I was in for quite a surprise. Even degraded stuff is still active. This massive dose resulted in a mental blackout that lasted for about an hour. Before the blackout I had so intense visuals I couldn't see anything but visuals. After the blackout it took hours to understand even basic things like who I am, where I am, what time is etc. It was extremely stupid of me to do it but I learned a lesson or two to say the least. But I never had any signs of any physical danger though.

Remarkably similar to what happens to me on ultra high doses, although i wouldnt necessarily say i experienced a blackout because as insane as the trips were i still remember what happened, i just became totally unresponsive and i couldnt talk yet i still remember most of what happened.
 
So the stuff I received recently is brown. Does anyone know why this is? I've heard it's just oxidation but others say it has degraded into 4-HO-DMT. Is this true?
 
So the stuff I received recently is brown. Does anyone know why this is? I've heard it's just oxidation but others say it has degraded into 4-HO-DMT. Is this true?

The degraded stuff I had didn't degrade into 4-HO-DMT (there are noticeable qualitative differences between them), but it was brown and had a bad smell. It was HCL, the vendor said HCL always is brown but I demanded a reshipment and got fumarate which was completely white.
 
i believe the "brown degraded" 4-aco-dmt that is being mentioned a lot recently is this
http://i.imgur.com/6FHBa.jpg

its a fumarate, reportedly 98.9% pure. i believe it is a rocky substance, largely made of large chunks. does not dissolve well in etoh or h20... perhaps slightly gooey? the person who posted this picture said it was slightly gooey, but it certainly doesn't look like it.
I have a similar looking sample that is living in the freezer. it seems pretty stable and grainy rather than gooey. however, tiny amounts have kind of "melted" onto the bag

who has tried this stuff? what did you think?
 
i believe the "brown degraded" 4-aco-dmt that is being mentioned a lot recently is this
http://i.imgur.com/6FHBa.jpg

its a fumarate, reportedly 98.9% pure. i believe it is a rocky substance, largely made of large chunks. does not dissolve well in etoh or h20... perhaps slightly gooey? the person who posted this picture said it was slightly gooey, but it certainly doesn't look like it.
I have a similar looking sample that is living in the freezer. it seems pretty stable and grainy rather than gooey. however, tiny amounts have kind of "melted" onto the bag

who has tried this stuff? what did you think?

i have this stuff right now

i know what vendor thats coming from

i just gpt mine a week ago and while i havent personally consumed it

all the people i gave it to have said its as good as the other stuff i gave them, white was the off white soft powder

and i wouldnt call it gooey
 
^Yeah, degraded HCL smells awful and nauseous-making.

i dunno bout the HCl but i have had some of the off white powder for almost 6 months now and it has taken on a smell vaguely remeniscent of heroin
 
i know what vendor thats coming from
i think a few vendors have stocked the same synth... there seems to be a lots around anyway.. i got mine ~two months ago. tried to twice with similar (not ideal) results. but i can't say if this is because of the batch or negative set.

i wouldnt call it gooey
nah me neither

specifically, i'm curious how people are responding to 30 mg+ doses.
are there any precursors in the synth that might have a peripheral effect at 0.5 mg?
 
^^ yea i think we used the same vendor not cuz of the product entirely but because im looking at the exact same bag and sticker

i usually dose around 20 so i can offer much info to you
 
i believe the "brown degraded" 4-aco-dmt that is being mentioned a lot recently is this
http://i.imgur.com/6FHBa.jpg

its a fumarate, reportedly 98.9% pure. i believe it is a rocky substance, largely made of large chunks. does not dissolve well in etoh or h20... perhaps slightly gooey? the person who posted this picture said it was slightly gooey, but it certainly doesn't look like it.
I have a similar looking sample that is living in the freezer. it seems pretty stable and grainy rather than gooey. however, tiny amounts have kind of "melted" onto the bag

who has tried this stuff? what did you think?

Yeah that's the exact stuff. Is it possible it's HCL and it's mislabeled?

As far as potency is concerned I have yet to do more than a light test with this batch (for obvious reasons!) and 6 mg was definitely noticeable.

EDIT: Mine sticks to tweezers, so I can't disagree with the 'gooey' description.
 
I don't think the HCl would ever look like that, but I've only seen one sample.

i believe that it may be relatively difficult to crystallize a fumarate salt? perhaps that could account for the color and texture...

i wonder if it would be possible to recrystallize as the freebase in a home kitchen?
 
IDK about the current batches you guys have, but i had some hcl i got from an reliable source a while back (6+ mo ago). It was stored in a glass vial, and was off white when received. After ~5ish months it slowly turned brown, and finally ending up as gooey chunks that were almost paste like in consistency and brown in color. It was still highly active.

I decided to put the stuff in a desiccating chamber (sealed mason jar with anhydrous mag/sodium salts, slica desiccant packets) to see if it was just hydroscobic and absorbed water. After a few days it did harden/thicken up a bit, but did not change in color and was still "gooey". So i said fuck it, it such a pita to weigh out like this i'm going to try converting it to the fumarate. Mixed with caoh 1:1 and made a paste with water. After ~30 min of mixing it began to blue, indicating psilocin oxidizing and that the 4-aco had hydrolyzed either before the basification as it slowly turned brown, or during it since it was in ~12.5ph hydrated conditions. Dried it quickly (~15m with mgso4, and mixing then on to a pyrex dish to get a dry powder). Pulled with acetone 4x, combined and salted with fasa.

Massive precipitation occurred, and after adding fasa several more times a few hours later, and a few more hours after that until it clouded no more, i was left with lots of silvery off white crystals that were extremely bitter and active at amounts comparable to what my non-degraded 4-aco fumarate from another source should be (IE a bit more fumarate vs. hcl). It felt different, no doubt to the conversion of some of it to psilocin, and i lost about ~%10 in the conversion, or due to degradation beforehand.

I think the hcl is just really hydroscobic, like alot of tryptamine hcls (IE dmt). And as as such, its prone to hydration, then slow degradation into psilocin and later inactives. The brown stuff is most likely just a bit wet and slightly degraded, but is still plenty active even after its gone full on goo ime. Perhaps due to 4-aco being more stable than 4-ho/4-po. In any case, the fumarate is preferable imho, if you can get it over the hcl its worth it even though its a bit less potent. They seem much less hydroscobic, and more stable in the long term.
 
the synth in question is a fumarate salt.
the color is, reportedly, from impurity rather than degradation. i do understand that impurities in the sample will cause more rapid degradation.

here's something addressing my question from another board.
july 1 said:
I also received some clumpy brown 4-AcO-DMT fumarate and was pleasantly surprised to learn that it was genuine AcO after a 30mg oral bioassay. Normally I wouldn't take a strange looking RC but the vendor checked out as reliable and others who had ordered from the vendor assured me that it was genuine despite the odd color/texture. Potency seemed to be on par with previous 4-AcO-DMT from a different vendor (whose product was white to grayish-white). No strange bodyload or any other side effects were notable from this batch.

I still have a few hundred mgs and I'm looking forward to ingesting some more with a friend on Independence Day.

i would still appreciate feedback from anyone else who was tried this stuff.
thanks very much
 
That's an extreme dose. Did you take that much on purpose? I've once snorted 70-100 mg, it was degraded and I thought it was barely active first, but I was in for quite a surprise. Even degraded stuff is still active. This massive dose resulted in a mental blackout that lasted for about an hour. Before the blackout I had so intense visuals I couldn't see anything but visuals. After the blackout it took hours to understand even basic things like who I am, where I am, what time is etc. It was extremely stupid of me to do it but I learned a lesson or two to say the least. But I never had any signs of any physical danger though.

My 80mg of the fumarate experience, I only properly realised what I'd done a while after consuming it, having weighed 0.08g on my tanita one hundredth gram scale, I somehow justified it in the moment as being 8mg which I 'subconciously' knew to be incorrect the whole time, having previously calculated it, it's a strange story :?... but I decided I wanted to do this 0.08g, tipped it into a gel cap and dropped it. My decision to do it that day was made hastily I remember, having gone out to eat with the resolve to trip later on, I returned home and swallowed after weighing, accidents helping one appreciate risk, fortunately or unfortunately :\ ;) :)

(I since invested in an AW gemini pro-20 (mg scale) which I used for for subsequent experiences with DMT and 5-MeO-DMT.)

Others' doses of 4-AcO-DMT: I thereafter gave a 40mg oral dose to someone which was felt very strongly indeed, who liked and appreciated it; also 30mg for somebody else who absolutely loved it and to whom I also gave a 20mg hit of vaporized DMT two hours in which was incredibly good too apparently. (All three of us between 150 - 180 lbs weight).

My experience broke down the doors on quite a few levels by myopic and telescopic powers of memory and thought, enhancing a sense of humanity and appreciation of the naturalness of objects, surroundings, materials and lifeforms. It did feel noticeably synthetic in quality for a time at the peak of my enormous dose for a first-timer, and perhaps compared with other dimethyltryptamines, but I found the early part of the experience entirely natural feeling and pleasing as was the tail-end to a degree, falling off into infinity like mushrooms and leaving me a sense of profound awe. So this drug is perhaps preferable in the sub-40mg range. Perception of reality was increased on this drug, by increasing an understanding and appreciation of Reality... 8o :D
 
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the synth in question is a fumarate salt.
the color is, reportedly, from impurity rather than degradation. i do understand that impurities in the sample will cause more rapid degradation.

i would still appreciate feedback from anyone else who was tried this stuff.
thanks very much

I've tried the brown fumarate twice now. Today I did a 32 mg oral dose, and it was very profound. I was experiencing very rapid recollections of all sorts of memories from my past. Basically I thought it was very fucking potent, and is now probably my favorite psychedelic substance. I only have a couple experiences with the hcl form a few months ago. So I don't have much experience with the compound, but I thought the stuff was very very good.

And I haven't had it for very long so I doubt degradation has taken any effect yet.
 
am i the only one that wishes people would indicate the form of 4acodmt, when they indicate a dosage??

the HCl should be more potent by weight, than the fumarate

purely by molecular weight, i calculated that the fumarate is .735 times as potent as the HCl
or the HCl is 1.36 x times as potent as the fumarate

meaning that 25 mg of the HCl is equal to about 34 mg of the fumarate


my guess is that the fumarate is more common, since it's more stable, but maybe people are still working with the HCl?
i suppose it's safer to assume that people are talking about the fumarate, when they indicate their dosage

i personally have found 25 mg of the fumarate to be barely active. around 32 mg is a good, but light trip, for me (strong enough for a couple friends), and 45 mg of the fumarate is the highest i've went. this would be about 33 mg of the HCl if i am correct, and that is approaching TOO HIGH for me. body was shaking, eyes were tearing up, nose was runny
 
yes i think reporters should always note dosage, form, and ROA.
i think many people are mindful of this.

Nuke's dosage calculator gives a much smaller difference in potency between salts than you have found... i have not done the math myself so i can't comment.
but anyway, using Nuke's Tryptamine Dosage Calculator, i get 25 mg HCl = 26.91 mg fumarate.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...-4-Substituted-Tryptamine-Dosing-Chart-Thread
 
I didn't find too much potency difference between fumarate and HCl. Maybe the duration of the former was slightly longer than the latter, but that's about it. And I've tried both forms at comparable doses. 25mg of either seems to be a sweet spot where it's just intense enough without being too much of a mindfuck.
 
4-aco-dmt preps, etc??

Hello beautiful people.

Okay, this is going to sound pretty dumb to a lot of you experienced adventurers out there - but that's why us psychobabies are here - to learn the ropes too 8(

Anyway, there's a bag of 100mg 4-aco-dmt fumarate and I just want to be solid on:

1. best storage method.
2. recommended first time dosage
3. best consumption method (oral, anal, etc, etc??)

Your help would be very much appreciated. I want to be safe and sound!! =D
 
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