The Big & Dandy 4-AcO-DMT Thread - Act Three

[effie]

Hi Pindar,

This sort of question would be best covered in the psychedelic drugs forum. I'll move it over for you

BDD > PD

 

[alteredstate8]

Tolerance to psychedelics builds up very fast and after four days of consecutive use, psychedelics will show zero effects no matter how much you increase the dosage. What nootropic properties are you referring to? Usually psychedelics such as psilocin will leave you with a long lasting afterglow and it is not necessary to use any more often then once every couple of months, or at a minimum of once every two weeks, to achieve beneficial effects such as a mood boost.

 

[blazR]

Are there actual data that shows all 4-aco-tryptamines(or just 4-aco-dmt) are converted into their 4-ho counterpart?
If so, please link

I know the hypothesis, but it isn't proven is it?

//blazR

 

[alteredstate8]

No, there is no proof that 4-aco tryps hydrolyze to 4-ho. Most likely some of it is converted but I believe a majority probably remains as 4-aco which would account for the subtle differences in effects between 4-aco and 4-ho tryptamines.

 

[Ismene]

Daily use of tiny doses of psilocybin would be a waste of psilocybin. Stick to occasional trips.

 

[Pindar]

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/nichols/nichols-psilocin.pdf . For the hypothesis. There are some anecdotal reports that propose that other routes of administration that bypasses the oral route might show the differences between the prodrug and psilocin more markedly than orally.

I posited from that hypothesis, the nootropic effects.

And "zero effects" or effects that don't manifest themselves in the traditional psychedelic manner but are subtle, like an increase in memory, a decrease in instances of depression, insight, etc...

 

[TheAppleCore]

http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/nichols/nichols-psilocin.pdf . For the hypothesis. There are some anecdotal reports that propose that other routes of administration that bypasses the oral route might show the differences between the prodrug and psilocin more markedly than orally.

Interesting. I've only used it nasally. Can anyone here vouch for distinct differences between oral and parenteral routes of administration?


Just based on my experience with psilacetin, I would guess it to be a fairly effective nootropic at low doses.

 

[spacejunk]

Daily use of tiny doses of psilocybin would be a waste of psilocybin. Stick to occasional trips.

^ this.
taking small doses daily sounds like a perfect way to ruin this substance (and probably other tryptamines too) for you.
i don't have any proof of this, but in my experience frequent administration of psychedelics increases the side-effects, the nausea and decreases the magic - diminishing returns. less is more.

 

[TheAppleCore]

^ Depends on what you're trying to accomplish with the chemical. If you want to occasionally blow the doors off the hinges with a +++/++++ psychedelic journey, then yeah, frequent dosing is probably not your friend. However, I think experimenting with nootropic use of the chemical is a perfectly legitimate pursuit.

 

[spacejunk]

is it known for being used as a nootropic? i've not heard that one before.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I can say 4-AcO-DMT does raise your heart rate but only by a very tiny amount, even at incredibly high doses my heart rate was nowhere near as high as after taking a regular stimulant. I'd say there also is significant stimulation, and good luck trying to sleep on 4-AcO-DMT, but conversely it feels rather sedating so you might feel sleepy despite not being able to sleep.

 

[RobotRipping]

i have a question about snorting 4-aco-dmt.

It seems some people enjoy it while others find it not very effective. I gather that it's about as potent snorting it as taking it orally, unlike the 2c's for example. Sometimes i get a bit of anxiety during the trip so if i can just trip for 1-2 hours by snorting then that would be my preference.

so for anyone that has done it, is the experience more/less anxiogenic? how long does it last compared to oral? any come up anxiety or does it just hit you within minutes? I'm probably going to try it tonight but i'd like some more info. I've had a couple of kind of shitty trips at 15-30mg oral lately and i'm hoping snorting it may allow me to enjoy myself like i usually do.

btw i have the fumarate salt and i searched all over the place but couldn't find much info.

EDIT: if anyone is curious, i snorted 5mg twice, the come up is really fast, about 5 minutes. Wasn't too intense but still made me anxious, duration was about 2 hours. Very easy on the nose at least, no drip. Overall it's worth while if you want to shorten the duration.

 

[Ismene]

Albert Hoffman called a low dose of acid his "daily consciousness vitamin" but I've tried low dose acid for a few days and it just becomes annoying. Perhaps very low dose - 10 mics or so would have some positive effect on depression but I havn't tried it.

 

[spacejunk]

^ i'm pretty sure it was michael hollingshead that said that. i'm not sure if the 'daily' bit is supposed to be taken literally, as in "every day".
i could be wrong though. i've had small sub-active doses of acid, and it just made me feel really ill and uncomfortable.
there may be a way to do it, but i've always thought of psychedelics as valuable tools when used occasionally.

 

[Solipsis]

Since, at least orally, 4-aco-dmt de-acetylates into psilocin, would it be okay to use it as part of a daily diet in low doses for all the benefits attributed to psilocin as well as its possible nootropic properties?

Merged in thread, and the above question was the OP.

The visuals for me were the most unique. My visuals on LSD and 2c-x are generally the same, mostly fractals and some mandalas as CEVs, and this weird shifting fractal overlay on everything I see when my eyes were open.

During my 4-aco-dmt experience, I had visuals like those, but they grew to become much more intense and complex. Eventually (with the help of some Biosphere), I was seeing morphing shapes that resembled a Calabi-Yau Manifold. Has anyone experienced visuals like that before? It looks like this:

I've seen this on DMT. It also morphed or interchanged with what I later found out were torus forms and Clifford tori:

In other visualization also tori and double tori:

I was telepathically told this is what at the heart of everything, representing energy - the flow or radiation of which is love.
But the elves often create goofy shapes, extending to varying dimensions, it seems. And well.. DMT is insane after all, and makes you high as fuck.

 

[korsen]

Greets, looking for an experienced tripper for a dosage comparison. Might have some 4aco on hand soon and i've had mushrooms a few times before.

I was 160 in the past under mushrooms, 190 now, and each dose was i think 1/16th (i got a low amount and split with someone, thinking I got the heavier half). The first time, I was watching aladdin and noticing nothing at all when suddenly I discovered a dull rainbow aura from the cartoon. I look up, and my ceiling tiles are breathing like i'm underneath a rolling ocean wave (one of the coolest things i've ever seen). Afterward, my dresser turned into a stationary "monster" and I was pushing the wall backwards in depth and shifting it around by will. After the lights are off, the open door of the dresser was a dark portal to medieval times (didn't last long). I don't remember much CEV's but when I started thinking, it was almost like I was experiencing inception. I think i started talking to myself as split personalities who were all there, so the half dozen of me started creating our own inception inside my head, and I literally open my eyes, and time had almost stopped for what felt like a mental hour when only a few minutes went by. That was the end of that because i passed out.

I read the old locked 4aco threads and a few of the last pages in this one, and i'll comment that my heart freaked out too on the comeup. Occasionally my heart feels like it comes out of it's "socket" and pulses before going back in - i get those normally so i'm not sure if the freakout was because i have that hidden condition whatever that is. So now that you've read my story, i'm looking for something a touch more intense. I probably only noticed what would be the peak for about 3 hours. Can anyone compare previous and current weights (body and product) and suggest an amount of 4aco? And what + experience did I have, and what am I looking for? I think i'm looking to hit +++ and i'd probably describe my mushroom experience as ++

My second trip I literally pulled a shadow card (birthday card sized tilted on it's point) with an eye that was level, looking at me out of thin air. I turned away from it, and it didn't follow me. I turned back around, and it was there! I couldn't believe it. So trippy.

EDIT: It's going to be fumarate, so is that simply ingested like everything else or do I have to do anything to it?

 

[DylanG204]

does anybody who is knowlegabe about oxidation able too do the reaction if 4-aco-dmt was oxidized ?

 

[twelvesevndi]

what texture / consistency is your sample?
if it is grainy / brittle / rocky then, i believe, it is safe to assume color from impurity rather than oxidation.

korsen, there is no way to make a direct comparison about mushroom dose to 4-aco-dmt dose. there are too many things we don't know such as the relative "strength" of the mushrooms and biological factors that are specific to your body.
perhaps 20 mg would be the right dose but you must do trials much lower than that to determine your own sensitivity to the compound and because it is possible that your body may react poorly to this compound at any dose.

 

[korsen]

ok, thanks twelve,

would sensitivity to the compound be independent of my sensitivity to mushrooms? Because I would consider from the experience I had with it, that my sensitivity is about average. Under the assumption that the same is true of 4aco (my sensitivity being average), would 20mg be the average dose for what i'm looking to achieve?

Probably an irrelevant side note, but i've had an average reaction to MDMA, MDA, and 5-MeO-DMT
A further irrelevant side note, my reaction to Salvia has been what Shulgin goes into detail about fear inducing life and death experiences. I'd elaborate the craziness of it but I know this isn't the thread to do so.

Sorry to break up the post, but I find that "exploration lower doses" consistently disappoint.

 

[twelvesevndi]

it sounds like it will probably be a good fit for you. it is possible that you could be allergic somehow to the 4-aco-dmt itself or something else in the powder left over from its synthesis.
there is also the possibility that you may receive something other than 4-aco-dmt. please consult the following thread if you are insistent on taking a large dose without a lower-dose trial
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/505304-can-you-test-a-substance-for-4-aco-dmt