The Benzodiazepine Thread v. IV

[indybreaker]

I just find it honestly doesn't do anything for me man. I feel 70mg of diaz wold be my preferred since ive banned myself off xxannies (buut come to think of it xannies where enever good for me I just had them coz I was in a bad ploace at the time) im so fucking curios with etilaam/etizolam but no no dr either says they have it or simply refer me back to either xannies or vals.sorry man wasn't havn a personal attack by the way either

 

[indybreaker]

how would u describe bromazapam. thjats another one im very curious about and lorazapam

^ For me probably diazepam yeah, that is assuming I will be chilling out around the house or taking the day relatively easy. If I have to do shit then alprazolam or bromazepam are both probably slightly better choices.

 

[Captain Brewster]

Mate, I don't think etizolam is scripted here in Australia at all.

If you don't like 48mg of clonaz, and xannies are a no go, then id pass on trying to use benzos recreationally.

They are very handy tools, and later on down the track you may find you need these to help you get through hard times. There not for everybody, especially used recreationally. But when your anxiety is at a point where you have no idea what to do, they always pull through for me. And if my tolerance is not high, the tiniest amount can do the trick in combatting anxiety/panic attacks.

 

[the red shark]

AFA in response to

"Anyone know the lowest active dose for seroquel, i usually break 300mg tablets into 6 smaller bits and it seems to give me what i nees if im all out my normal goto benzos"

you an get 25mg tablets, which you can half and depending what you want out of it, if sleep then a lower dose like half a 25mg is better than a higher one

 

[the red shark]

Metkissity: : GG juice and benzos bind to the same receptor (GABA) and essentially have very simi lar effects. When I was prescribed three Xanax a day I spent Friday- Sunday taking juice and didn't need a single Xanax the who,e time. You can take it with benzos, like you can drink with it, but pace yourself, take a lower dose than normal.IME benzos don't enhance the juice and there really is no need to consume both, if you do then you will likely pass out for 3-4 hours and not remember a thing...

 

[AFA]

Cheers sharky

Iv only got access to 300mg ones >.< had halfa one once and it turned me into a zombie for like 40 hours hahaha from now on will break into tenths.

 

[psytaco]

Wanted to get a bit of input and hopefully some reassurance.

I've been scripted valium and have been using 5-10mg generally, no more than 2-3 times a week. I have been doing this for 6 months. My doctor hasn't expressed any concern about physical dependence.

just getting a bit worried that I may have developed an addiction again. I have been addicted twice before but that was taking daily doses that were much higher (20-40mg) but only for a month or so (the last time I was addicted was over a year ago).

What do you think the chances of addiction are again? How long does it normally take for physical withdrawal to occur. I haven't noticed any of the usual symptoms after 3 days of not using (ie. shakes, nausea etc.)

 

[drug_mentor]

Lets please avoid giving advice on how easy various scripts are to obtain or otherwise detailing how one might obtain said scripts. Thanks.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've recently been using a steady (albeit low) amount of oxazepam. Usually 15-30mg 4/7 days of the week. I've seen a lot of equivalencies posted saying 10mg diaz = 20mg oxaz. It's a unanimous decision amongst everyone i've asked in regards to the two that diazepam is superior. I'm interested in fellow Australian's opinions on oxazepam vs valium for both recreational and therapeutic purposes and what your personal opinions are in regards to equivalency. I've heard a friend go as far to say 45mg oxaz is equal to 10mg diaz roughly. Is anyone able to outline the pros and cons of both as after searching for some time the threads I find aren't specifically about comparing the two and these are the two benzos I am currently involved with. Before finding these two it was alprazolam exclusively and I find that to be quite different from oxaz and diaz.

 

[tyrael]

Metkissity: : GG juice and benzos bind to the same receptor (GABA) and essentially have very simi lar effects....

Errrmm, "GG juice" is typically (it varies depending on location. Differing) isomers of amyl. Most common are amyl nitrate, (iso)butyl nitrite or amyl nitrite - all containing the 5-carbon moiety. And all amyl isomers with the same basic MOA: most noticeably strong vasodilatation and smooth muscle relaxant properties. (Disregarding medicinal uses for this post). They don't have the same (any) affinity for GABA receptors. "Amyl" is a source of volatile nitric oxide (an endogenous compound used for vasodilation anyway).

This is in comparison with benzodiazepines who are GABA-R agonist.

Essentially, each drug's MOA is different! In terms of drug/drug interactions - shouldn't be a problem. One maybe find an increased orthostatic syncope effect (due to the benzo's BP decrease and vasodilation also causing reductive BP).

Standard BL HR paragraph[\B] - any poly-drug use (irrespective of TI, MOA, etc) should always be undertaken with care!! Just taking into account each individuals possible idiosyncratic response, the addition of more substances may lead to a greater unknown/undesirable effect(s).

Basically?.....play safe kids!

 

[tyrael]

I've recently been using a steady (albeit low) amount of oxazepam. Usually 15-30mg 4/7 days of the week. I've seen a lot of equivalencies posted saying 10mg diaz = 20mg oxaz. It's a unanimous decision amongst everyone i've asked in regards to the two that diazepam is superior......

Imo? I'd prefer diaze over oxaze (I've found too majority of people ok BL do also). Oxazepam is a metabolite of Diazepam - I think those few minor metabolites once experiences when dosing diazepam does make a difference in feel/efficacy. Particularly the desmethyldiazepam and temazepam metabolites.

Medicinally, both diaze and oxaze have very similar indications and profiles. Although (technically, in med books and such) oxaze has "supposedly" a lesser abuse potential. "Pros v cons" are a little difficult to talk about in specifics without context - requirement? Past drug (medical and illicit) use, etc.

There's a few benzo comparison charts floating around - http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm isn't a bad one, nor the Wikipedia article (they're good for a general comparison, specifics could be argued however any questions ask here )
The app (Epocrates) I use for my studies and such state 5mg diaze (long acting, 20-100hrs) ~= 15mg oxaze (medium-acting, 5-15hrs).

Anyway, Good luck, triplies!

 

[tyrael]

....What do you think the chances of addiction are again? How long does it normally take for physical withdrawal to occur. I haven't noticed any of the usual symptoms after 3 days of not using (ie. shakes, nausea etc.)

Obviously only you (and your GP?) know you best - so take any advice re this as much as you like. Imo having previous addition episodes will increase your propendancey to relapsing. (From personal experience AND seeing it many times to those around me) Ones own judgement really isn't a good guage for deciding if one has a drug problem (read: addiction) - close friends and your local GP (who should know you inside out :D ) are the best third-party/outsider observers to help with this (imo).

Withdrawal symptoms (generalising here) usually show themselves within a few half-life's of the last dose taken. A drug like Diazepam may show sx after a few days - this depends on a number of things though : dose, have you had consistent, chronic use? (Diazepam is lipophilic and hence is able to build up levels within the body with chronic use), physiological/individual differences (technically called "genetic polymorphisms"), blah blah. Physical W/D don't necessarily definitely mean your body's become physically addicted - although I'd take it as a warning sign.

My advice? Knowing you have had issues with control before, tred carefully here! Only take exactly when prescribed, look for your own signs things may be starting again, etc. And don't be afraid to return to your GP with your concerns! (Assuming you we're scripted them for a legitimate condition :D), there will always be alternatives with helping overcome (whatever it is you're suffering. And if your doctor doesn't provide/suggest these, seek a second opinion!*)! Any decent doctor would much rather you return expressing your concerns re a possible addiction and limited drug efficacy, than their pt actually becoming addicted and having to go through replacement/therapy for that.


* I think people forget sometimes that doctors work for the patient! Although obviously still being bound by laws and professional ethics, if the patient doesn't feel as of they're receiving adequate care, most definitely go elsewhere (and continue doing so until someone listens and helps!)

 

[justsayknow]

I've recently been using a steady (albeit low) amount of oxazepam. Usually 15-30mg 4/7 days of the week. I've seen a lot of equivalencies posted saying 10mg diaz = 20mg oxaz. It's a unanimous decision amongst everyone i've asked in regards to the two that diazepam is superior. I'm interested in fellow Australian's opinions on oxazepam vs valium for both recreational and therapeutic purposes and what your personal opinions are in regards to equivalency. I've heard a friend go as far to say 45mg oxaz is equal to 10mg diaz roughly. Is anyone able to outline the pros and cons of both as after searching for some time the threads I find aren't specifically about comparing the two and these are the two benzos I am currently involved with. Before finding these two it was alprazolam exclusively and I find that to be quite different from oxaz and diaz.

Yeah I would usually take 30mgs and notice a decent effect. I'm not sure of the equivalence to 10mg Diazepam but 30 seems more likely than 45. I took 45mg the first time I had it and it seemed quite strong. From memory the reasons I didn't like them were the long onset time and short duration. As a sleep aid you need to time it just right or you wake up too early. I was using them to help reduce my drinking and they were ok for that purpose. Prefer diazepam or temazepam because of the longer duration and shorter onset time. I think thats why they are considered to have a low abuse potential. You have to plan when you want to have the effect rather than dosing impulsively.

 

[Jabberwocky]

ah fair enough. I'm fairly new to benzos. The idea of equivalencies is lost on me because alprazolam vs diazepam are very different feeling. how can they say things like 20mg oxaz = 10mg Diaz if both drugs give me different effects (not wildly different but oxaz definitely lacks euphoria). is it possible to take a dose of oxaz and get similar if not the same effects of Diaz or is it just not possible?

 

[tyrael]

ah fair enough. I'm fairly new to benzos. The idea of equivalencies is lost on me because alprazolam vs diazepam are very different feeling. how can they say things like 20mg oxaz = 10mg Diaz if both drugs give me different effects (not wildly different but oxaz definitely lacks euphoria).....

Welcome to the world of pharmacology! :D

....is it possible to take a dose of oxaz and get similar if not the same effects of Diaz or is it just not possible?

You're right, it's not possible. Although drugs like diazepam and oxazepam are in the class of drugs called benzodiazepines - on the molecular level they do have differences, and these differences result in each individual drug profile. One benzo may have greater hypnotic properties, another with greater anxiolytic properties and so each is prescribed with these properties in mind and for treatment (indications) of differing conditions.

When you see equivalency charts (not just for benzos, but opiates or barbiturates, etc) they should be (and are medicinally) taken very generally!

 

[justsayknow]

I would use it as a rough guide for the minimum effective dose. Sure the subjective effects are bit different but if you have no tolerance at that dose it's doing what it's supposed to do- relax, sedate etc...

 

[Captain Brewster]

ah fair enough. I'm fairly new to benzos. The idea of equivalencies is lost on me because alprazolam vs diazepam are very different feeling. how can they say things like 20mg oxaz = 10mg Diaz if both drugs give me different effects (not wildly different but oxaz definitely lacks euphoria). is it possible to take a dose of oxaz and get similar if not the same effects of Diaz or is it just not possible?

Oxazepam is a metabolite of diazepam, as is temazepam.

So diazepam is broken down into desmethyldiazepam, temazepam and oxazepam in your liver.

Where's oxazepam is just oxazepam. Your missing out on desmethyldiazepam (mainly) and temazepam.

Oxazepam worked for me when I had very low tolerance. But it has no legs, and I'd find myself dosing a heap more than I would have compared to being scripted plain ol diazepam (awesome half life for what I need). I didn't feel there was as much muscle relaxing properties as diaz

It's a weak benzo, but can come in handy.

 

[BLUELIGHT2008]

xanax schedule 8

So was told by pharmacist when getting xanax script filled tbat next year the xanax bra d is beimg discontinued only will be generics available. Makes you wonder what the anext xanax drug will be now they are discontinuing it but anyway.

I was also told its goong to schedule 8 next year so it will be a controled drug. What are the implications of this? Does this mean i need approval from ddu and a psychiatrist to prescribe? Or will my gp just get on his telephone and ask for approval like normal?

 

[Captain Brewster]

Merged.

 

[Jabberwocky]

so would keeping my rather large stash of oxazepam for acute anxiety attacks be ok? I have little to no tolerance as I use benzos a few times a month. would 60mg be appropriate for a really bad anxiety attack or is it too weak to be efficient. for reference I used to use 2mg of alprazolam for an attack or 20mg Diaz. would I be safe taking say 90mg oxaz with no tolerance?