Opioids Suboxone

[SpiralusSancti]

But if you taper bupe over a couple of weeks there barely is any wd ? Thats whats the long half life is made for not? Can someone clarify this ? How in the world is bupe wd worse then heroïne when its fda approved ? I have heard methadone was harder to quit then heroïne but bupe ?

It's an individual thing but not rare at all. And it's harder to kick because very high doses are prescribed.

 

[Kizaru]

It's an individual thing but not rare at all. And it's harder to kick because very high doses are prescribed.

Yeah but still bupe could never ever produce the kind of high IV heroïne can do no matter what . Even if the wd of high doses of bupe would be worse (only if you cold turkey in my opinion) compared to heroïne , you won't ever crave bupe in the same way as you would with something like heroïne ? In the end everything is about psychological addiction other wise dependancy wouldn't even exist . If someone detoxes from opioides and rides out the wd and turn back to opioides again its all because of psychological addiction and not dependancy .

 

[SpiralusSancti]

And cuz opiates with long half-life are usually harder to kick completely. It isn't like with benzos. Sure super potent, ultra short ones like fent are harder to kick but when comparing for example morphine with methadone one of things why methadone is harder to kick for most is it has such a long half-life, well more diversified action and a lot of other things too.

But no need to worry about stopping bupe. How long you use it? How often?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Yeah but still bupe could never ever produce the kind of high IV heroïne can do no matter what . Even if the wd of high doses of bupe would be worse (only if you cold turkey in my opinion) compared to heroïne , you won't ever crave bupe in the same way as you would with something like heroïne ? In the end everything is about psychological addiction other wise dependancy wouldn't even exist . If someone detoxes from opioides and rides out the wd and turn back to opioides again its all because of psychological addiction and not dependancy .

That's right. Another thing where bupe beats most opiates.

 

[Kizaru]

It's an individual thing but not rare at all. And it's harder to kick because very high doses are prescribed.

I have been doing 0.5/1mg for some months with days inbetween and one time a week . How much suffering will i expect ? Because it might become hell but starting from the second week ? If thats the case then fuck me i am totally screwed.

 

[Kizaru]

That's right. Another thing where bupe beats most opiates.

But its not harder then methadone right ? And also if methadone is so much worse why did they fda approved it ? Why don't they ever use morphine to taper with morphine or something ?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

But if you taper bupe over a couple of weeks there barely is any wd ? Thats whats the long half life is made for not? Can someone clarify this ? How in the world is bupe wd worse then heroïne when its fda approved ? I have heard methadone was harder to quit then heroïne but bupe ?

While you can lower bupe to 0 with no too strong WDs (but you can do so with others too) you definitely don't feel great while doing so. Some people chose to jump of from higher doses and not to tapper cuz of that and long periods of feeling shitty upon coming to 0.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I have been doing 0.5/1mg for some months with days inbetween and one time a week . How much suffering will i expect ? Because it might become hell but starting from the second week ? If thats the case then fuck me i am totally screwed.

It's hard to tell as it's so different from person to person but it isn't that alarming. I would suggest first trying to skip days. With a bit of help it won't be hard at al.
It's your first run with it?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

But its not harder then methadone right ? And also if methadone is so much worse why did they fda approved it ? Why don't they ever use morphine to taper with morphine or something ?

Most people find methadone harder to quit. I quit morphine cold turkey, well almost cold turkey but yeah I would have got bupe or methadone. And probably a shitload of it.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

It's hard to tell as it's so different from person to person but it isn't that alarming. I would suggest first trying to skip days. With a bit of help it won't be hard at al.
It's your first run with it?

I wrote it ain't that alarming but it isn't at all compared to how bad it can be. But in the future try to not use daily for such a long time to not slip with it. You also use meth, right? If so than to worry about 0.5 - 1mg bupe habit isn't logical at all.

 

[Kizaru]

I wrote it ain't that alarming but it isn't at all compared to how bad it can be. But in the future try to not use daily for such a long time to not slip with it. You also use meth, right? If so than to worry about 0.5 - 1mg bupe habit isn't logical at all.

No no meth here .

 

[Kizaru]

I wrote it ain't that alarming but it isn't at all compared to how bad it can be. But in the future try to not use daily for such a long time to not slip with it. You also use meth, right? If so than to worry about 0.5 - 1mg bupe habit isn't logical at all.

Sometimes i use some dexamphetamine prescribed but thats about it . I rlly can't stand stims.

 

[SpiralusSancti]

No no meth here .

O sorry I mixed up something.
Well I guess you really should try to stop for a few days. Everyone is different and maybe you are one of the lucky ones and wont notice a thing. Otherwise you should stop for at least 2 days, if you are just fine than prolong it to a much as you can. And if you do get bad WDs see how little is enough to make them manageable. I say bad as otherwise you should just clench your teeth and go trough it.
Having something for sleep is a good idea. And if you are a working man than amphetamine should be plenty helpful. Aim so 3. and 4. day of stopping it are over the weekend.
Anyway don't think about it as you'll be going trough hell as you wont. But than after you've passed trough that, don't think how it was peace of cake and go for it again. As sooner or latter you'll stuck in a situation where you really feel how bad it can get.

 

[Kizaru]

O sorry I mixed up something.
Well I guess you really should try to stop for a few days. Everyone is different and maybe you are one of the lucky ones and wont notice a thing. Otherwise you should stop for at least 2 days, if you are just fine than prolong it to a much as you can. And if you do get bad WDs see how little is enough to make them manageable. I say bad as otherwise you should just clench your teeth and go trough it.
Having something for sleep is a good idea. And if you are a working man than amphetamine should be plenty helpful. Aim so 3. and 4. day of stopping it are over the weekend.
Anyway don't think about it as you'll be going trough hell as you wont. But than after you've passed trough that, don't think how it was peace of cake and go for it again. As sooner or latter you'll stuck in a situation where you really feel how bad it can get.

I am quite relieved because my blood level is pretty low atm . And i alrdy did 2 or 3 days without anything a couple of times . Now i can stabalize myself on 0.20 without noticing much of problems , hell i even noticed i may actually feel better on a very low dose compared to the 1mg range . I seem to sleep quite long whenever i take a mg or more . So there are more factors playing which makes the motivation to quit better . Like example on suboxone my libido is absolutely non existant and when i stop i get like rebounds on my libido which made me definitely aware of the side effects . Bupe is a strong medicine thats for sure and maybe i am the ignorant one for thinking its easy . But still i would not believe and never believe its more addictive then full agonist . It is more addictive then lets say kratom / tramadol 100% . Can you tell me what are bad wd effects ? Like having the flue times 10 ?

 

[SpiralusSancti]

I am quite relieved because my blood level is pretty low atm . And i alrdy did 2 or 3 days without anything a couple of times . Now i can stabalize myself on 0.20 without noticing much of problems , hell i even noticed i may actually feel better on a very low dose compared to the 1mg range . I seem to sleep quite long whenever i take a mg or more . So there are more factors playing which makes the motivation to quit better . Like example on suboxone my libido is absolutely non existant and when i stop i get like rebounds on my libido which made me definitely aware of the side effects . Bupe is a strong medicine thats for sure and maybe i am the ignorant one for thinking its easy . But still i would not believe and never believe its more addictive then full agonist . It is more addictive then lets say kratom / tramadol 100% . Can you tell me what are bad wd effects ? Like having the flue times 10 ?

You snort it right?
If so wait for 4 or more days and than snort lines the of about 0.1mg until you feel fine.

 

[Kizaru]

You snort it right?
If so wait for 4 or more days and than snort lines the of about 0.1mg until you feel fine.

Yeah i am pretty much doing that alrdy so thx and yes i snort it but i also taper it with snorting so at this point the bioavaliability doesn't rlly matter only if i would continue sublingual route i would have to take more to compensate for the higher bioavaliability with snorting it .

 

[Kizaru]

You snort it right?
If so wait for 4 or more days and than snort lines the of about 0.1mg until you feel fine.

I read agonism of mu receptors (which causes addiction) in buprenorphine is till 2 mg , anything above doesn't create a bigger high which is the ceiling effect .

 

[Kizaru]

O sorry I mixed up something.
Well I guess you really should try to stop for a few days. Everyone is different and maybe you are one of the lucky ones and wont notice a thing. Otherwise you should stop for at least 2 days, if you are just fine than prolong it to a much as you can. And if you do get bad WDs see how little is enough to make them manageable. I say bad as otherwise you should just clench your teeth and go trough it.
Having something for sleep is a good idea. And if you are a working man than amphetamine should be plenty helpful. Aim so 3. and 4. day of stopping it are over the weekend.
Anyway don't think about it as you'll be going trough hell as you wont. But than after you've passed trough that, don't think how it was peace of cake and go for it again. As sooner or latter you'll stuck in a situation where you really feel how bad it can get.

I can get my hands on pregalabine would it be worth it ? I have used that in the past for ghb withdrawal but i also read it does wonders for opioide wd . I also don't find lyrica addictive in anyway way way below benzo's both psychological and physical .

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

But i heard oxycodone had the worse of all chasing high . The high that dissapears quick makes it less addictive anyday over oxy or heroïne not? I don't see how bupe is worse recreational compared to full opioide agonist (addiction wise) .

I wouldn't necessarily say the high from Suboxone disappears any faster than the high from oxy or heroin.

Actually the "high" lasts all day & even to this day (7 years later), I still get random days where I feel like Suboxone makes me a tad bit high.

Of course the high is nowhere near as enjoyable as heroin or a lot of other opioids. If you have no tolerance, I'd say a tiny dose of Suboxone could be just as enjoyable as any other opioid.


Addiction & dependence are two different things. So I don't think bupe is worse addiction-wise or even necessarily dependence-wise.

But for some one who's not tolerant, I think they would have an easier time coming off of shorter agonists.
Because bupe is a long acting partial agonist, so it's withdrawals last much longer than regular opioids.

A person could do bupe for 4-5 days & then quit & think they're in the clear until 2-3 days later, the actual withdrawal from the bupe kicks in.
And generally by that time, they'd already be through the acute phase of withdrawals from heroin or shorter acting agonists.

So a protracted withdrawal is more likely to cause redosing/relapse because the person is gonna get tired of feeling like shit day after day.
Time spent on it can matter too though. I've read from people on here that their acute phase of withdrawals from bupe lasted up to 30 DAYS.
I've never actually withdrawal from bupe though, so I can't really say how severe it gets.

I know I had withdrawal once from it while I was still getting it from a friend off the streets. Back in like 2017. Had to go through a week of bupe withdrawal.
By the end of that week, my hands were shaking constantly. Had no energy, achey body, no interest or pleasure in anything.
Even my mom commented on my hands shaking. And shaking hands was something unique to bupe withdrawal for me. Never had shaking hands from heroin or shorter agonists.


So ask yourself this....

Would you rather go through 3-7 days of heroin withdrawal ?
Or 30 days (I've read of people having withdrawals for up to 6 months even) of bupe withdrawal?

Not to mention, because of bupe's potency... it's going to activate waaaay more receptors in your body (depending on dose) than heroin ever could (because if you saturated your receptors in heroin like you can bupe, you'd be dead).

 

[Kizaru]

I wouldn't necessarily say the high from Suboxone disappears any faster than the high from oxy or heroin.

Actually the "high" lasts all day & even to this day (7 years later), I still get random days where I feel like Suboxone makes me a tad bit high.

Of course the high is nowhere near as enjoyable as heroin or a lot of other opioids. If you have no tolerance, I'd say a tiny dose of Suboxone could be just as enjoyable as any other opioid.


Addiction & dependence are two different things. So I don't think bupe is worse addiction-wise or even necessarily dependence-wise.

But for some one who's not tolerant, I think they would have an easier time coming off of shorter agonists.
Because bupe is a long acting partial agonist, so it's withdrawals last much longer than regular opioids.

A person could do bupe for 4-5 days & then quit & think they're in the clear until 2-3 days later, the actual withdrawal from the bupe kicks in.
And generally by that time, they'd already be through the acute phase of withdrawals from heroin or shorter acting agonists.

So a protracted withdrawal is more likely to cause redosing/relapse because the person is gonna get tired of feeling like shit day after day.
Time spent on it can matter too though. I've read from people on here that their acute phase of withdrawals from bupe lasted up to 30 DAYS.
I've never actually withdrawal from bupe though, so I can't really say how severe it gets.

I know I had withdrawal once from it while I was still getting it from a friend off the streets. Back in like 2017. Had to go through a week of bupe withdrawal.
By the end of that week, my hands were shaking constantly. Had no energy, achey body, no interest or pleasure in anything.
Even my mom commented on my hands shaking. And shaking hands was something unique to bupe withdrawal for me. Never had shaking hands from heroin or shorter agonists.


So ask yourself this....

Would you rather go through 7 days of heroin withdrawal ?
Or 30 days (I've read of people having withdrawals for up to 6 months even) of bupe withdrawal?

You see but the thing is you are talking about CT . Bupe is made to be slowely tapered , this is what the long half life is made for . You can taper it at how ever you may feel like it , you can taper without even barely feel any wd . You are comparing a severe wd from heroïne which last 7 days to 30 days of bupe wd . Ofcourse if you are severely dependant on bupe the wd will last longer because of the long half life and its strong attachment to the mu receptors , but this also means if you slowely taper you minimise wd symptoms by alot . But could you easely taper heroïne with heroïne , or oxycodone with oxy? I think that would be far more difficult since those are both full agonist , with bupe i have never taken more then 1mg because its useless from anything above . I am on remeron (mirtazapine) for over 8 years now , if i ct it i have alot worse symptoms then i would ct my suboxone from some months of usage , is there fore mirtazapine worse then anyother anti depressant ? You see my point here ?