Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

[Ziggy stardust]

Whoops...double post. Sorry.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

He claimed to use the UAs test for levels of Bupe and Norbupe in the blood to determine if you are taking a full dose and not diverting medication.

Is that possible? I thought all drug tests where negative or positive?
I know they have specific test for methadone...peak and trough...to see if your burning thru your dose too fast, but regular drug tests should just be Pass or Fail, right?
Maybe he was just trying to keep you on the straight and narrow..
Thanks for all the info...it's interesting to here how it works. I've heard some real horror stories about extra charges for drug tests ranging up to $400. And other unexpected bullshit. Sounds like the Drs you all go to are pretty fair.

 

[BlueHues]

The first few sub doctors I had were practically like the prescription doctors in Tijuana....Everyone just pays cash and gets pretty much whatever they want, up to 90 a month. The waiting room was packed and you had to wait 3 hours to get in. He also wrote everyone for Ambien if they asked for it. He would call three people in at a time, so you'd be sitting in the exam room with 3 people! At that time there were only a handful of Sub doctors in the area and they were always maxed out on patients. He would ask you if you "wanted" a urine that month or wanted to wait until next time!

It got stricter a few years after that, where you had to work your way up to getting a whole month's worth at most places.

The last place I went not only wanted you to come in for the induction, they wanted you to come in every day for the first week and piss...That place they treated you like a fucking criminal! That was the only place I ever went to that started you off low...You actually had to prove you were sick to get your dose raised! Unlike every place I ever went that just assumed you needed 16-24...The doctor there had a reputation of being this great "addiction specialist", but the only thing they did differently there was monitor your every move! I hated it, I have a huge resentment against that place! They made me wait 48 hours before letting me take my first dose, but I couldn't do it, so I just got some sub on the street and took a little 24 hours after using...Then they made me wait another day...When they finally wrote me a script, it was for 16 2mg strips...They made me bring them in every day to dose them and count them! In the first few days trying to get on them, I took a little klonopin to ease the transition, because I had a heavy heroin habit. I pissed dirty for the klonopin, and after that guess what they told me?!
They said I had to go through a week long opiate detox before they would admit me for Suboxone maintenance!!

At that point, I basically told them to go fuck themselves...but this was four days after I paid them a huge fee to sign up for their Suboxone program! I asked them for my money back, or at least some of it back and they refused! I've never been treated like such an asshole in my life! I just decided to kick everything and go to rehab at that point!

I'm sorry, I just don't buy into the whole idea that being addicted to drugs automatically makes you a horrible person that can't be trusted! And anyone out there knows that the whole lifestyle is exhausting, and when you reach the point of wanting to stop, more than anything you just need to relax and get your head together...but some of these places just wanna throw all this bullshit at you while you're still sick! Of all the groups and counseling I've had for drug addiction over the years, I don't remember a single one of the "exercises" they made us do. I'm ranting here, but has anyone experienced this firsthand at a "Sub clinic" or a rehab or whatever? Where they make you do all this fucking homework and writing?! I'm always like, "Look buddy, I'm coming off a massive heroin habit and it's taking everything I have to just sit here in this chair and talk right now, can't you just back off a little bit with the handouts writing assignments?!!

Anyway...the Suboxone doc I have now writes me for 2 months at a time and is a really nice guy, a doctor who does it as part of his private practice. He slips in little things like, "If you were giving these to someone else, I wouldn't know and I wouldn't be able to stop you....you're a grown adult and I can only do so much..." Of course, at this point I'm only scripted just enough to get by...getting 90 a month would just fuck me up with no insurance at this point...

 

[Tommyboy]

I'm sorry, I just don't buy into the whole idea that being addicted to drugs automatically makes you a horrible person that can't be trusted! And anyone out there knows that the whole lifestyle is exhausting, and when you reach the point of wanting to stop, more than anything you just need to relax and get your head together...but some of these places just wanna throw all this bullshit at you while you're still sick! Of all the groups and counseling I've had for drug addiction over the years, I don't remember a single one of the "exercises" they made us do. I'm ranting here, but has anyone experienced this firsthand at a "Sub clinic" or a rehab or whatever? Where they make you do all this fucking homework and writing?! I'm always like, "Look buddy, I'm coming off a massive heroin habit and it's taking everything I have to just sit here in this chair and talk right now, can't you just back off a little bit with the handouts writing assignments?!!

Anyway...the Suboxone doc I have now writes me for 2 months at a time and is a really nice guy, a doctor who does it as part of his private practice. He slips in little things like, "If you were giving these to someone else, I wouldn't know and I wouldn't be able to stop you....you're a grown adult and I can only do so much..." Of course, at this point I'm only scripted just enough to get by...getting 90 a month would just fuck me up with no insurance at this point...

I totally agree man. I mean, I did feel a bit better while in outpatient, but a lot of it was bullshit. I was pretty much the only honest person in there since I wasn't court mandated, so I would tell them every time I slipped up. So I was basically viewed as the worst one in the group, but then on break everyone would come up to me saying how they did this drug and drank that the other night, and then go back into group claiming 45 days clean or whatever. I never called anyone out other than the kid on 100mg of methadone that was trying to comfort me when I was withdrawing by saying that the symptoms will start to get better soon after kicking dope, like they did for him. I was like dude, no offense and you can totally use your methadone to taper off and stay clean, but don't tell me you just went through what I'm going through now when I went from dope to nothing, and you went from dope to 100mg of methadone a day. He ended up being a dealer, said that dose of methadone was strong enough where he couldn't feel the dope at all, so he could sell it without doing it.

Back to the outpatient thing, I kinda felt bad for the counselor who thought all these people had all these days clean, when in reality there was only a few people that had actual clean time, and the rest were bullshitting her. I probably made the most progress there but judging by the surface she didn't see it that way. But yea, we would write down what we were thankful for, or positive things about ourselves, and honestly I think they hurt some people more than they helped. Like it's supposed to build peoples confidence to see that they've got some good qualities, right? Well some people just didn't, so they ended up feeling worse about themselves. Oh and everybody in group would say how we were all going to be friends for life, and we would keep in touch, etc... The only person I've heard from has been some girl that would hit me up to get her dope when her connects fell though.

 

[RTrain]

Is that possible? I thought all drug tests where negative or positive?
I know they have specific test for methadone...peak and trough...to see if your burning thru your dose too fast, but regular drug tests should just be Pass or Fail, right?
Maybe he was just trying to keep you on the straight and narrow..
Thanks for all the info...it's interesting to here how it works. I've heard some real horror stories about extra charges for drug tests ranging up to $400. And other unexpected bullshit. Sounds like the Drs you all go to are pretty fair.

No they definitely can test for levels in the urine. It costs the doctor and his practice much more money to run this test. A simple negative positive test can be ran in the office, but they need to send it out to a lab to determine the levels. Using a GC/MS test is the only way to do it.

Thing is there is no common ground for levels in the urine, it differs from person to person. But there is still reasonable levels for a person to have if they are taking X amount of Bupe. Also it allows him to see if you are continuing to use the medication as directed. If there is a large disparity between tests and no change in the dosing, its obvious your are not using as directed.

Of course it is possible for a doctor to claim he is using this technology when in fact he is just bluffing to try and keep you following the program. It does cost a lot for that testing, I believe I read for just one of the tests it can be between $50-100.

^^

Really? I've only been on suboxone in NY and no referrals are needed. You just call up a doc, find an opening, and you're in.

You can still go without a PCP referral, but the insurance won't cover it until its been done. In MA you are required to list a PCP for private insurance policies, too.

 

[smokemctoke420]

^^ you go to private docs? expensive, right? my friend does and has to go weekly. said he takes urines but fails at times when he "slips". the Dr. will just make him come back in a week and take another urine. weekly script or monthly? what you paying?

funny about drug test because I CANNOT URINE! I do blood and saliva only. I dont know y but I cant piss infront of people. I can SHIT right on you, but cant piss.

Anyway, I go through MGH in Boston; I am in their recovery program. I FAIL every single test they give me. I am open about my weed use; even tested positive for benzo's before cuz of an MRI I had; they still NEVER cut the dosage or questioned me. I am truly NOT using aside from what I am open and tell my Dr. about. He and I have a pretty cool relationship since meeting in August when sobriety first started; he asks why I piss dirty and I tell him; he's cool w/ me being open and how I still stay far away from the opiates. It's should be a 15 min Dr. visit but usually turns up a 45-1hr counseling session; that's why I love the guy.

They started me at 24MG in the psych ward; was released 12 days later and was dropped to 16MG. to this day I am still scripted for 16MG but took it down to 8MG myself. my Dr. knows I still use 8-12MG but I just finished my last script and now he has me on 12MG daily; he suggests 8MG in AM and 4MG PM but I always think it's best to take full dosage in the morning; it is what worked best for me before going down to 8MG.

Since this is at a med center my costs are NEXT TO NOTHING! but.. I did do a a month class there; this is all part of a program they do there. This is coming after my OD so I took some time off from work to recover and get my life straight; and thats exactly what happen since that day. Just happy about it all, man. Esp. my Dr. being cool as fuck and letting the weed thing go, ha. During the program, tho, I never pissed dirty. that was the original first 30 days. after that I started to smoke again.

I couldnt piss either and they hawk you but the other dude that does it at night was like dont worry ill just sit over here. hes a really awesome dude and talks to me about how im doing and shit and how it was for him in jail but i think the guy from the morning is a homo, like for real. he's like "i gotta watch cuz thats the rules. and hes never even done drugs so he doesnt know how what its even like so i cant talk to him. but when i first started it took me an hour to pea ccuz he was hawking me so i straight up told my counselor i was gonna leave the program cuz the urine tests give me so much anxiety. she talked to the supervisor and now all my urines are unsupervised. lol it really does give me anxiety like a mofo cuz i hold my piss for 20 hours and still cant go.

s\but when i get on vivotrol the only urines i gotta do is the once a month at random and i only got 1 group a week instead of 2. so its alot easier on me, which is good cuz its fucking 45 mins away.

 

[BlueHues]

In the end, most of the people you meet in rehab or treatment are either gonna end up as one of your new drug buddy's or new connect!

I used to be "Mr AA" when I got clean years ago, and I believe talking to other addicts and going out to meetings can help...

But the group excercises and writing assignments drive me insane at this point. Once you've been through it a few times, it's all the same shit every time! I've made so many "lists" of the positive and negative things that come from my drug use over the years it's ridiculous! For me, it really comes down to:

I like getting high. If I get too caught up in it, it screws my life up. I'm either gonna stop or I'm not! There's nothing any drug counselor or anyone else could say to me at this point that's gonna make any difference whatsoever! In the end, you know how you quit using drugs? You don't do them! IDK, this whole "addiction as a disease" thing, I don't know if I really buy it. Just about anyone can start popping pills or snorting coke or shooting dope and get hooked on it and screw their lives up! It's just not this big mysterious thing to me....I'll take one of these addiction counselors with me on month long run of doing everything, and I guarantee they'll be addicted to something by the end of it!

I think everyone has addictive tendencies, some just more than others. I basically almost made a drug counselor girl cry one time...She wasn't an ex-addict, and I basically told her she had no idea what she was talking about! Why anyone who never had a drug problem would want to become an addiction counselor I'll never understand...

I don't mind 12 step meetings, because you can just go to them and talk to people...The whole field of "Substance Abuse Treatment" drives me insane though.

 

[Tommyboy]

But the group excercises and writing assignments drive me insane at this point. Once you've been through it a few times, it's all the same shit every time! I've made so many "lists" of the positive and negative things that come from my drug use over the years it's ridiculous! For me, it really comes down to:

I like getting high. If I get too caught up in it, it screws my life up. I'm either gonna stop or I'm not! There's nothing any drug counselor or anyone else could say to me at this point that's gonna make any difference whatsoever! In the end, you know how you quit using drugs? You don't do them! IDK, this whole "addiction as a disease" thing, I don't know if I really buy it. Just about anyone can start popping pills or snorting coke or shooting dope and get hooked on it and screw their lives up! It's just not this big mysterious thing to me....I'll take one of these addiction counselors with me on month long run of doing everything, and I guarantee they'll be addicted to something by the end of it!

Yea, it comes down to accepting that it's not a sustainable lifestyle, so sadly you have to quit the dope if you wish to lead a half-way normal life. You can get by in life on dope, but it's not easy and you won't really go anywhere. I've got a friend who is on a 3 year run, hasn't missed more than a day in that time, and he met a girl in detox over 2 years ago who he's been running with since, and with the financial assistance of her parents and some of their own cash they have an apartment now, but every aspect of their life revolves around dope. He'll drop her off at work in the morning, then figure out how to score enough for the both of them that day.

They spend $100/day between the two of them for their habits (more if they have the money) but rent is 700/month and she only gets paid 400/week, so that's a lot of money to come up with for dope. Between rent and dope that's $3700/month, and that's not including car expenses. So even if we round her pay up to $1700/month, that still leaves $2000 to come up with, and easily another $500 between gas and food. The life of a junkie, man. Scraping and scrapping for every last dime you've got just to get by. He works sometimes too, but that usually just means more dope money, and less of having to borrow from other people / family for rent and other basic moneys. So yea you can get by in life using dope, but it's a hard-knock life, and you've gotta get used to living with just the bare necessities because that's all you are going to have.

So that example right there is why I'm trying to stay clean. I know I can figure out a way to get by while using each day, but it's way too much trouble than it's worth.

 

[Jabberwocky]

was real sad when I was coming up short on rent and the GF put in extra, or I had to ask my friends to borrow, or mother/father some story, or try and sell shit on Craigslist. I'll never forget the day I sold the original iPad for $125 and bought a gram of dope right away and had $25 to myself. shot gram and went home. GF asks where the iPad is and I so high already and prob benzos and just tried to act out as if she lost it. then she says she knows I sold it cuz I left the email up.

sad huh? I needed the money that bad I was selling stuff around the house for dope. that was a gram.. one shot. so that was at 6PM; so by noon the next day I would have to come up w/ another 100 bucks; god knows what I'd do that day. just fucking sick.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^^

Yeah that kind of hustling just wares you out and becomes really tiring. Like you said, steal some shit or something that's worth a lot to somebody, but it gets you literally only one day of dope, and the next day you gatta come up with something all over again.

The energy it takes to scheme and shit like that every day to come up with cash to use is so draining. I am so glad to not have to do that right now because it was killing me. You know, doing that every day for years and years just wares on your soul.

 

[cj]

^^

Really? I've only been on suboxone in NY and no referrals are needed. You just call up a doc, find an opening, and you're in.

That's the way it is here in Bama as well

 

[Rob27shred]

Reading a lot of the posts about what most people have to do to get a sub script makes me feel really lucky. I have to go monthly, my doc is non particapating but you can get your visits reimbursed through most insurances providers, he actually cares about his patients, & I have to take just 1 DT a yr with him.

Eventhough I now I have to pay out of pocket the main bulk of my expense is in the meds themselves. My monthly app. Costs me $90 & my script costs me $140 a month (with the monthly $50 off from R&B for using strips). So it ends up costing me $230 a month for my visit & script.

I get scripted 3mg a day so I'm not taking a huge amount, but I know people who are scripted similar amounts yet have weekly apps. & it costs them more than double that. I should also mention that I was one of my doc's very first maintenance patients & have been on subs for over 5 yrs now.

When I started, putting people straight onto maintenence & letting the patient decide when to taper down was the standard treatment. Now my doc will not put someone on to maintenance unless they have failed several times at a quick suboxone taper. He has been pressuring me to continue my taper but, because of they way I was originally treated it is still my decision to make.

I definitely want to get off of the subs & be completely opiate free but I'm so far down the rabbit hole at this point I feel truly blessed to have such a good doctor & so much control over my treatment. Because even with a very slow taper down to minuscule doses, I feel that I will still probably have to go through a long & fairly intense WD from bupe.

 

[Ziggy stardust]

Thanks for the info about the sub drug tests,Train.
It sucks to live under the whim of clinics and Drs.
I remember one time having all my methadone take homes all set up and ready to go with my counselor. I just needed to walk in and pick up 28 days worth...so I get there and she's not there and nobody cares or gives a rats ass that I'm getting on a plane in three hours and out of the state for a month. They wouldn't call her or help me at all.
I just sat on the curb in front of the place and sobbed for two hours. Then I see my counselor pulling into the parking lot...and she saved the day.
I learned to hoard shit after that...hell if I'd ever get stuck in a situation like that again. It's a constant stress just having enough to get by.

 

[pasha]

^^^^
Weird. All I get is more headaches (later after drinking and the next day...)

My sub clinic docs are now all pretty fine with me and don't even do piss tests with me anymore since I have all 6 privileges a week. They know I am truly a pain patient (migraines, TMJ, trigeminal neuralgia, yes, all at once). I also know doctors are not really hung up about Tramacet/Zytram (no pure tramadol unless long duration obviously in .ca). I hear this stuff works over suboxone ? How can it be ? I know my neurologist or even they at the sub clinic (which employs the same docs as the pain clinic next door in the hospital) could probably give me some Tramacets because of how it disregards bupe.

How can it do that ?

that's because tramadol's analgesic properties are only partially owed to to it's opioid properties, but mostly due to its noradrenergic and antagonistic effects at substance p and NMDA receptors.

 

[HomieOC]

How long will suboxone block vicodin

It's been 40 hours since I took suboxone i was off all opiates for 2 months and norco 3 months. Past month I've been taking 2 mg suboxone a day I just quit I waited. 40 hours.

I took 2 10 mg norco and I don't feel anything. Did suboxone ruin receptors. Will I ever feel good again from Vicodin or is there still suboxone in me blocking effects. I'm freaking out. It's not treating my chronic pain as well as it used to either

Thanks !
HomieOC

 

[pasha]

did you try using the search engine? i'm going to merge your thread.

basic drug discussion -> other drugs (suboxone megathread)

 

[moe24]

useing suboxone for only 3-4 days just to get over oxy withdrawl

HI guys I am and have been addicted to hydrocodine and oxy for about a year now..im really looking to get off this stuff for real this time,I said that 6 months ago and I really wish I went thru with it because my 50mg habit is now 100mg a day.
my brother told me he acceses to some suboxone that his freind has and he can get me a couple strips..
I know I can stop useing but im scared of getting sick,I tried being sober for 12 hours and I couldnt handle it so I know I cant go cold turkey for 4-5 days plus I cant call off work
My brother told me that he used suboxone for 3 days to get off his opeite addiction and told me to give it a try (hes been sober for 6 months now.
Ok heres the question.
Can I use suboxone just so I can aviod the oxy withdrawl Physical symptoms and then stop useing suboxone? I read that the oxycotin physical symotoms llast up to 5 days so I figured ill use the strips to just get over the physical symotoms then stop uuseing the strips. Is that how it works? Or once I stop takeing the suboxone my oxycontin symptoms will just come back?
I know I can beat the mental addiction, its just the physical symptoms I cannot handle..I need to do something soon because im at 100mg of oxy and im not getting a high from it no more and im worried if I don't stop now, I will continue upping my dose and get to a level where it'll be even harder to get off.
Thanks for all tge the help and support you guys and gals can offer.

I should also mention that I took a whole strip of suboxone about a yeae ago not knowing what it was actually used for and I was just trying to get high but it ended up makeing be very sick and bed ridden for 3 days. Eveything I ate or drank I threw up so im hoping if I use it correctly this time I won't experince that problem again

 

[HomieOC]

did you try using the search engine? i'm going to merge your thread.

basic drug discussion -> other drugs (suboxone megathread)

Yes. Will a month of 2 mg effect me enough where I'll never feel Vicodin again ? It's been 49 hours since my last subuxone doses me I didn't feel anything it's been like 58 hours. Now I just took another and waiting to see

 

[BlueHues]

^Quick answer for you...Aside from the buprenorphine possibly blocking the hydrocodone, Its likely that the buprenorphine has raised your tolerance to the point that you'll no longer be able to feel 20 mgs.

20 mgs is very low.

 

[HomieOC]

^Quick answer for you...Aside from the buprenorphine possibly blocking the hydrocodone, Its likely that the buprenorphine has raised your tolerance to the point that you'll no longer be able to feel 20 mgs.

20 mgs is very low.

I took 15 mgs a hour ago now I'm starting. To feel a warm feeling I used to get. But not much. It's a improvement from this morning and not feeling anything. Weird ?? Why ? Also how can only a month of 2mg really cause a tolerance issue ? After a week wouldn't my tolerance drop back down to notice Norco better ?