Bupe Suboxone as an antidepressant need help plz !

[Kizaru]

Hi all fellaw bluelighters ,

I struggle from chronic depression since the age of 12 . I came across bupe thrue a friend who said it was a wonder med for his chronic pain without it being recreational or addictive . I have used bupe recreastinal (nasal roa) i liked its recreational effect better then kratom which was the only opioide thingy i tried yet . Since the last year i used suboxone in and out. But what i rlly was interested in was its anti depressant effect . The recreational value vanished quickly but keep noticing anti depressant effect specifically anhedonia . And this what i was on about , there is little scientific backup data for suboxone being anti depressant . I tested it , i was in a severely lethargic anhedonic mood , took good quality kratom (red) still very lethargic/anhedonic. Small amount of subs and bam 20 mins later without intoxication great improvement in anhedonia and also movement anhedonia . I know the policy in giving advice about psychological problems but plz i need advice . The avarage psychologist here is complete utter scam and bs . Could suboxone be worth helping my depression or is it to risky/addictive ? Any advice welcome , thanks for reading my post .

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Not advisable. Because taken daily soon the antidepressant effect you get will be gone, and replaced with a physical dependence in which you need bupe just to feel normal, and by normal I mean how you feel now before you started taking it.

There are much better options for depression that do not involve intentionally making yourself dependent on opioids.

Buprenorphine is just as addictive as other opioids. It's just not as abusable.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Buprenorphine is used together with the mu antagonist samidorphine as an atypical antidepressant working through kappa antagonism. So there is something about buprenorphine agaibst depression but as snafu already said, at least without the add on its not exactly recommendable. I was on 4mg bupe for a couple of months and didn't notice any antidepressant effect yet there might have been some blockade of negative thoughts (vs an actual mood lift).

I'd recommend giving ketamine a try before going the opioid route.

 

[Kizaru]

Not advisable. Because taken daily soon the antidepressant effect you get will be gone, and replaced with a physical dependence in which you need bupe just to feel normal, and by normal I mean how you feel now before you started taking it.

There are much better options for depression that do not involve intentionally making yourself dependent on opioids.

Buprenorphine is just as addictive as other opioids. It's just not as abusable.

Ok if this is real truth reliable source and you rlly honest . Because i as an addict obviously need to question myself is this addiction speaking or not . Is the anti depressant effect still part of the intoxication without it feeling intoxicated i dunno where can you draw the line ? But i can't ignore its rlly helpful . I have used paxil in the past and caused me long lasting severe sexual dysfunction after quitting the ssri. I can't and will not use ssri nor snri. So any advice left ? I appreciate your honesty and no it the ad effect will dissapear it ain't be worth becoming dependant on it. But guess what eventually all medicine are like that , like right now i am on mirtazapine for the last 8 years . I dunno what the fuck it even does but i am dependant . So how is bupe any different ?

 

[Snafu in the Void]

Is the anti depressant effect still part of the intoxication without it feeling intoxicated i dunno where can you draw the line ?

The two cannot be separated with a drug like buprenorphine. The antidepressant effect and the high are the same thing.

If you were no longer getting high, but still getting antidepressant effect... this is called tolerance. Eventually the antidepressant effect will fade, too.

Just my 2 c

 

[Kizaru]

Buprenorphine is used together with the mu antagonist samidorphine as an atypical antidepressant working through kappa antagonism. So there is something about buprenorphine agaibst depression but as snafu already said, at least without the add on its not exactly recommendable. I was on 4mg bupe for a couple of months and didn't notice any antidepressant effect yet there might have been some blockade of negative thoughts (vs an actual mood lift).

I'd recommend giving ketamine a try before going the opioid route.

Thanks for your advice and honesty . I have looked into ketamine indeed and may try it . I can also get ketamine myself (snort) or do you need a special version of k?

 

[Kizaru]

The two cannot be separated with a drug like buprenorphine. The antidepressant effect and the high are the same thing.

If you were no longer getting high, but still getting antidepressant effect... this is called tolerance. Eventually the antidepressant effect will fade, too.

Just my 2 c

Ok this is very clear usefull information for me . The anti depressant is the high. Thanks alot, bupe stays in recreational substances .

 

[Kizaru]

The two cannot be separated with a drug like buprenorphine. The antidepressant effect and the high are the same thing.

If you were no longer getting high, but still getting antidepressant effect... this is called tolerance. Eventually the antidepressant effect will fade, too.

Just my 2 c

But then again every ad effect from every med fades away , so how do you combat that ?

 

[plumbus-nine]

Thanks for your advice and honesty . I have looked into ketamine indeed and may try it . I can also get ketamine myself (snort) or do you need a special version of k?

The only plus of going to a ketamine clinic is that they limit the supply for you and make sure it's of pharms quality. Ketamine can, for some people like me, be pretty psychologically addictive. When I had acquired some ket, I usually ended up dosing until I run out. But if you can control it, it's probably a superior antidepressant.

But even if you should become addicted to ketamine, it's less bad than being addicted to opioids. At least my 2 cents, YMMV.

But then again every ad effect from every med fades away , so how do you combat that ?

With more substances... this is not just a problem regarding antidepressants but many a hi meds, our bodies try to work around the artificial effects and build tolerance.

I think antidepressants are best when only used for a limited time as a booster to achieve changes in one's life.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

But then again every ad effect from every med fades away , so how do you combat that ?

I've used a plethora of drugs and medications in my life and have readily concluded the best cures for depression and anhedonia do not involve taking drugs.

Exercise, diet, meditation, mindfulness, psychology, goals, nature, therapy animals... 10x better than any drug or medication.

So easy to take a pill... but putting in effort in the above areas is way better.

 

[Kizaru]

I've used a plethora of drugs and medications in my life and have readily concluded the best cures for depression and anhedonia do not involve taking drugs.

Exercise, diet, meditation, mindfulness, psychology, goals, nature, therapy animals... 10x better than any drug or medication.

So easy to take a pill... but putting in effort in the above areas is way better.

Yes i am going to the gym , its just sometimes very very difficult . Because i am always chronic very tired . But i know gym day is good so i keep trying .

 

[Kizaru]

The only plus of going to a ketamine clinic is that they limit the supply for you and make sure it's of pharms quality. Ketamine can, for some people like me, be pretty psychologically addictive. When I had acquired some ket, I usually ended up dosing until I run out. But if you can control it, it's probably a superior antidepressant.

But even if you should become addicted to ketamine, it's less bad than being addicted to opioids. At least my 2 cents, YMMV.


With more substances... this is not just a problem regarding antidepressants but many a hi meds, our bodies try to work around the artificial effects and build tolerance.

I think antidepressants are best when only used for a limited time as a booster to achieve changes in one's life.

Why are the only meds/drugs that seem to help depression Always addictive ? I hate it , sorry its just so frustrating to explain how intense it sometimes is . I know your right though

 

[Kizaru]

I've used a plethora of drugs and medications in my life and have readily concluded the best cures for depression and anhedonia do not involve taking drugs.

Exercise, diet, meditation, mindfulness, psychology, goals, nature, therapy animals... 10x better than any drug or medication.

So easy to take a pill... but putting in effort in the above areas is way better.

I know the void though , made the same mistake in using ghb as anti depressant . Just an empty vessel in the end . But i am afraid i will end up empty anyway . I do suffer from specific personality disorders which makes my daily life unbarabale .

 

[plumbus-nine]

Why are the only meds/drugs that seem to help depression Always addictive ? I hate it , sorry its just so frustrating to explain how intense it sometimes is . I know your right though

It's the same with anxiolytics and painkillers, stimulants too. The body recognizes these things as xenobiotic and develops tolerance to them. Or it's because of unnaturally high levels of certain neurotransmitters but I think we develop less tolerance to endogenous stuff like endorphins vs. opiates.

There are some ways around tolerance like NMDA antagonists against opioid tolerance and stuff like ketamine which isn't used daily as antidepressant but there's no magic, unfortunately.

I eventually got even depressed from continuous morphine and methadone use, same with SNRI venlafaxine. Not to mention the sexual and metabolic side effects. I'm after a decade now finally off venlafaxine and feel less depressed.

 

[Kizaru]

It's the same with anxiolytics and painkillers, stimulants too. The body recognizes these things as xenobiotic and develops tolerance to them. Or it's because of unnaturally high levels of certain neurotransmitters but I think we develop less tolerance to endogenous stuff like endorphins vs. opiates.

There are some ways around tolerance like NMDA antagonists against opioid tolerance and stuff like ketamine which isn't used daily as antidepressant but there's no magic, unfortunately.

I eventually got even depressed from continuous morphine and methadone use, same with SNRI venlafaxine. Not to mention the sexual and metabolic side effects. I'm after a decade now finally off venlafaxine and feel less depressed.

Yeah i got long lasting sexual side effects after quitting paxil . So ssri's will never be a option for me anymore , no freaking way they are worth it .

 

[Juicewrldfan]

So I have done ketamine infusions for depression and they were lame for me TBH but some ppl they do help a lot. Several thousand dollars later I was just as depressed.

That’s the other issue I have with ketamine clinics. They are huge cash grabs. Ketamine is a very inexpensive drug and they typically charge 500 dollars per appointment. You have to have 6 appointments your first month and then you do maintenance doses like once a month. And most of them only supply you with the ketamine. Not integrated therapy, nothing else.

It was infusions btw. You might be able to get insurance approval these days but idk. And maybe it wasn’t effect for me because I was on sub maintenance at the time and I think but could be wrong part of Ks effects occur due to binding at k-opioid receptors. Yet I made the practitioner fully aware of all meds.

For depression medication, I personally highly recommend psilocybin. It’s anti-addictive and no compulsion desire to redose plus it works wonders for my depression. I don’t use it every week or anything like that tho. I am using it 3 times a year I used it twice this year so far.

The effects are long lasting, the insights are powerful. And all in all it’s just a very beautiful experience. Yet you can have challenging experiences sometimes but those I find to be the best for improving my life.

There are clear net vendors now and one very reputable one that I use even ships to all 50 states discreetly. I don’t think I can name vendors even if it is a clear net so I’m going to leave it out but you can find them with some digging on the internet and I think I found them thru a YouTube reviewer video. So it’s very inexpensive and less side effects/hassle plus I find it’s more effective at least for me.

Ultimately though it’s what @Snafu in the Void said, things like working out, setting realistic goals you can achieve even if it’s something like cleaning the house, socializing ( social health is very important), getting adequate sleep and nutrition, spending time in the sun ( 20 minutes in the morning), getting a therapist you connect with…these are all things I’ve found as well to be more beneficial than ANY drug/medication.

Good luck to you on your path to healing.

Edit: spending time in the sun triggers dopamine releases that’s the point of that.

 

[Kizaru]

So I have done ketamine infusions for depression and they were lame for me TBH but some ppl they do help a lot. Several thousand dollars later I was just as depressed.

That’s the other issue I have with ketamine clinics. They are huge cash grabs. Ketamine is a very inexpensive drug and they typically charge 500 dollars per appointment. You have to have 6 appointments your first month and then you do maintenance doses like once a month. And most of them only supply you with the ketamine. Not integrated therapy, nothing else.

It was infusions btw. You might be able to get insurance approval these days but idk. And maybe it wasn’t effect for me because I was on sub maintenance at the time and I think but could be wrong part of Ks effects occur due to binding at k-opioid receptors. Yet I made the practitioner fully aware of all meds.

For depression medication, I personally highly recommend psilocybin. It’s anti-addictive and no compulsion desire to redose plus it works wonders for my depression. I don’t use it every week or anything like that tho. I am using it 3 times a year I used it twice this year so far.

The effects are long lasting, the insights are powerful. And all in all it’s just a very beautiful experience. Yet you can have challenging experiences sometimes but those I find to be the best for improving my life.

There are clear net vendors now and one very reputable one that I use even ships to all 50 states discreetly. I don’t think I can name vendors even if it is a clear net so I’m going to leave it out but you can find them with some digging on the internet and I think I found them thru a YouTube reviewer video. So it’s very inexpensive and less side effects/hassle plus I find it’s more effective at least for me.

Ultimately though it’s what @Snafu in the Void said, things like working out, setting realistic goals you can achieve even if it’s something like cleaning the house, socializing ( social health is very important), getting adequate sleep and nutrition, spending time in the sun ( 20 minutes in the morning), getting a therapist you connect with…these are all things I’ve found as well to be more beneficial than ANY drug/medication.

Good luck to you on your path to healing.

Edit: spending time in the sun triggers dopamine releases that’s the point of that.

Hi man , thanks alot for your reply . And YES psilocybine is definitely on my list . As a matter of fact i actually planned it for this summer . I have a very good friend who says/said the exact same things about magic mushrooms as you say . He always said 1 time shrooming equals 1 year therapy for me literally . The only thing which is holding me back is fear , i do have anxiety . I have done truffels in the past but they don't seem to come close to real shrooms . I also have alot of experience with 2cb which was much fun always but didn't had any long lasting effects etc . So is this only exclusive to magic shrooms ? Because for me it all about internal long lasting positive change . And what about something like lsd ?

 

[Kizaru]

So I have done ketamine infusions for depression and they were lame for me TBH but some ppl they do help a lot. Several thousand dollars later I was just as depressed.

That’s the other issue I have with ketamine clinics. They are huge cash grabs. Ketamine is a very inexpensive drug and they typically charge 500 dollars per appointment. You have to have 6 appointments your first month and then you do maintenance doses like once a month. And most of them only supply you with the ketamine. Not integrated therapy, nothing else.

It was infusions btw. You might be able to get insurance approval these days but idk. And maybe it wasn’t effect for me because I was on sub maintenance at the time and I think but could be wrong part of Ks effects occur due to binding at k-opioid receptors. Yet I made the practitioner fully aware of all meds.

For depression medication, I personally highly recommend psilocybin. It’s anti-addictive and no compulsion desire to redose plus it works wonders for my depression. I don’t use it every week or anything like that tho. I am using it 3 times a year I used it twice this year so far.

The effects are long lasting, the insights are powerful. And all in all it’s just a very beautiful experience. Yet you can have challenging experiences sometimes but those I find to be the best for improving my life.

There are clear net vendors now and one very reputable one that I use even ships to all 50 states discreetly. I don’t think I can name vendors even if it is a clear net so I’m going to leave it out but you can find them with some digging on the internet and I think I found them thru a YouTube reviewer video. So it’s very inexpensive and less side effects/hassle plus I find it’s more effective at least for me.

Ultimately though it’s what @Snafu in the Void said, things like working out, setting realistic goals you can achieve even if it’s something like cleaning the house, socializing ( social health is very important), getting adequate sleep and nutrition, spending time in the sun ( 20 minutes in the morning), getting a therapist you connect with…these are all things I’ve found as well to be more beneficial than ANY drug/medication.

Good luck to you on your path to healing.

Edit: spending time in the sun triggers dopamine releases that’s the point of that.

500 dollar for a ketamine treatment is absolute insane lmao . Just like they make xyrem (pharma GHB) 5000 dollar for a mere 180ml bottle if you are not insured . Its all about patents and money . While i pay 60 bucks for 500ml

 

[plumbus-nine]

BTW, dextromethorphan (DXM) makes a good antidepressant as well, alone or combined with bupropion (as they sell under the name Auvelity). It has a SNRI built in though but I found it far easier to handle and to quit than the typical pharm S/NRI. It works within a couple of days vs a month and is available for dirt cheap, legal and no prescription required.

The combo with bupropion is a heavy stimulant though specially when combined with caffeine. Never imagined that it'd get approved as an antidepressant. Always got a couple of sunny days after doing a DXMsm robotrip and did together with bupropion (by coincidence, years ago and before medical approval), it worked well, quit due to side effects (tinnitus, for which bupropion is notorious, and overstimulation). No loss of effects after a couple of mo tgs tho. Maybe I dosed too high, was using 150mg bupropion and 100mf DXM while Auvelity is 90/40 if I'm correct.

Yeah, those ketamine clinics and Xyrem prize are ridiculous. They should just sell ket nasal sprays in the pharmacy on regular prescription.

 

[Kizaru]

I

So I have done ketamine infusions for depression and they were lame for me TBH but some ppl they do help a lot. Several thousand dollars later I was just as depressed.

That’s the other issue I have with ketamine clinics. They are huge cash grabs. Ketamine is a very inexpensive drug and they typically charge 500 dollars per appointment. You have to have 6 appointments your first month and then you do maintenance doses like once a month. And most of them only supply you with the ketamine. Not integrated therapy, nothing else.

It was infusions btw. You might be able to get insurance approval these days but idk. And maybe it wasn’t effect for me because I was on sub maintenance at the time and I think but could be wrong part of Ks effects occur due to binding at k-opioid receptors. Yet I made the practitioner fully aware of all meds.

For depression medication, I personally highly recommend psilocybin. It’s anti-addictive and no compulsion desire to redose plus it works wonders for my depression. I don’t use it every week or anything like that tho. I am using it 3 times a year I used it twice this year so far.

The effects are long lasting, the insights are powerful. And all in all it’s just a very beautiful experience. Yet you can have challenging experiences sometimes but those I find to be the best for improving my life.

There are clear net vendors now and one very reputable one that I use even ships to all 50 states discreetly. I don’t think I can name vendors even if it is a clear net so I’m going to leave it out but you can find them with some digging on the internet and I think I found them thru a YouTube reviewer video. So it’s very inexpensive and less side effects/hassle plus I find it’s more effective at least for me.

Ultimately though it’s what @Snafu in the Void said, things like working out, setting realistic goals you can achieve even if it’s something like cleaning the house, socializing ( social health is very important), getting adequate sleep and nutrition, spending time in the sun ( 20 minutes in the morning), getting a therapist you connect with…these are all things I’ve found as well to be more beneficial than ANY drug/medication.

Good luck to you on your path to healing.

Edit: spending time in the sun triggers dopamine releases that’s the point of that.

BTW, dextromethorphan (DXM) makes a good antidepressant as well, alone or combined with bupropion (as they sell under the name Auvelity). It has a SNRI built in though but I found it far easier to handle and to quit than the typical pharm S/NRI. It works within a couple of days vs a month and is available for dirt cheap, legal and no prescription required.

The combo with bupropion is a heavy stimulant though specially when combined with caffeine. Never imagined that it'd get approved as an antidepressant. Always got a couple of sunny days after doing a DXMsm robotrip and did together with bupropion (by coincidence, years ago and before medical approval), it worked well, quit due to side effects (tinnitus, for which bupropion is notorious, and overstimulation). No loss of effects after a couple of mo tgs tho. Maybe I dosed too high, was using 150mg bupropion and 100mf DXM while Auvelity is 90/40 if I'm correct.

Yeah, those ketamine clinics and Xyrem prize are ridiculous. They should just sell ket nasal sprays in the pharmacy on regular prescription.

I actually had read about auvelity and was interested . However i alrdy tried wellbutrin in highest doses but never noticed anything from it (300mg) and yeah those ketamine rules are absurd and so bs strict . Blood pressure needs to be ensured etc and in a hospitol setting . While stims get hand out like candy (where i am from at least )