Help! Should my 17 year old daughter trip?

[FredF]

Yes, and I'm glad they have. But I would never have instigated it myself.

I just don't feel comfortable with introducing people to drugs anymore...

What if that drug was called Prozac? This isn’t an accusation, friend, I’m just saying how it goes. I dont feel I introduced her to drug. I feel
I introduced her to an effective medicine. Prozac was only keeping her numb, and as someone mentioned early on, numbness might be the only reason she’s still here, but it was time for the next step.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Hello, Everyone.

I’m the OP. Its been just over four months of contemplating since I opened this thread, and the contemplation was already ongoing for some time by the time I came here for advice.

For anyone who has followed along, or is catching up, firstly I’d like to sincerely thank everyone who opined, one way or the other.

The continuation of the story goes as such - this past Friday, my daughter, who will turn 18 in two months, and I consumed mushrooms together.

Now, things can still go sideways, but right now, we both believe its the best thing we could’ve done.

You have to understand, my daughter was/is stuck. For all intents and purposes, she hasn’t gone to school for years. Hasn’t left her room for years. Virtually only for hospital visits after self harm. Cutting herself. Badly. Eating fistfuls of pills and such.

A big issue was/is her inability to believe in herself, and I’m telling you, this kid can do anything she wants. A big part of the problem is that while I tried to tell her I believed this to be true, that she does have the ability to do anything, she really felt I only said I believed in her because, well, what else is a father going to say.

Right now, for the first time ever, or since she was so small she couldn’t know any better, she believes that she has the ability to do anything. Right now, for the first time in too long, she believes that I fully believe in her, and that im not just saying it.

I’ve already told her, this feeling of victory, this feeling she deserves to feel, may wane. Doubt may creep back in. And that’s normal. For all of us. But I also told her that from now on, that feeling of doubt won’t feel exactly the same. That it won’t feel eternal. And she believes it. Fully.

I know there is much work to be done, but the willingness to do the work, and the ability to see the end goal in reach is now there, within her.

I know how this sounds, I didn’t think I would be this guy, but in a few hours she got so much farther than years of antidepressants ever got close to taking her.

In this moment I am happy. Its been long for me too. To feel happy. And my happiness stems from being happy for her. And that I can feel happy for someone else so authentically, makes me happy for me.

In this moment I am happy. And grateful. Grateful to anyone who had an authentic well wish. It worked. And I wish you all well. And happiness. I wish you all happiness.

Wow, I missed this. I didn't realise you'd only gone and bloody done it!


But I'm made up it worked out and you both had a positive experience.


I would still advise against it mind you, but my rather jaded view of psychedelics means that I often forget their many positives.

 

[FredF]

I'm so glad this worked out for you guys. It was controversial, especially for some, but I believe in this case it was a sensible thing to attempt, and it looks like it paid off. Please do be aware that follow-up therapy is going to be important... I imagine that when you mention that she's willing to do the work, that's what you meant, but just for the sake of saying it, the afterglow of psychedelic trips are usually somewhat long lasting, and things feel changed permanently, and easy, but without using that period of time to start doing sober work, it won't last forever. At least that is usually the case.

Yes, she is willing to go to therapy. That wasn’t the work she wasn’t willing to put in. Its just she would go there believing she couldn’t be helped. She now does. The therapy will no be more impactful, because she’s open to it.

Before, it would’ve ended as soon as the therapist suggested that she is capable. Her reaction would be - “you’re lying to me, only to be nice. I know that im incapable”. Now she’s open. Her mind is receptive now.

Bit more specifically to her struggles, she’s willing to try to fight that feeling of just staying in bed when the alarm goes off. Holding on to the belief that although she may be developmentally stunted, It doesn’t have stay that way. She doesn’t have to be embarrassed because she didn’t learn something at 8 years that she was supposed to. If she learns at 20, its ok too. She’s now comfortable with all this.

When I asked her, I said “ do you believe me? What I’ve always told you. That you are king of the world, if you want it. Do you believe that you can, and do believe that I, your father, always believed it?”

When she said yes, I knew that she believed it in that moment, it may have been the happiest moment in my life. It certainly felt like I waited for that moment my whole life.

 

[FredF]

Put thumbs up of all above posts 'cause there is true in any of them.Glad for the guy and his daughter that everything pass smooth

Thank you for the positivity.

 

[FredF]

Wow, I missed this. I didn't realise you'd only gone and bloody done it!


But I'm made up it worked out and you both had a positive experience.


I would still advise against it mind you, but my rather jaded view of psychedelics means that I often forget their many positives.

I mean, i understand now, I asked everyone here the impossible. Even with my recent positive experience, I too would never tell another person to give their child mushrooms. I’d be willing to talk about all day, but id never day the words “go ahead, do it”.

 

[Xorkoth]

Before, it would’ve ended as soon as the therapist suggested that she is capable. Her reaction would be - “you’re lying to me, only to be nice. I know that im incapable”. Now she’s open. Her mind is receptive now.

That is the true value of psychedelics in therapy... they make you receptive to new ideas, about yourself and other things. They can remove those ;layers of your consciousness that automatically and reflexively keep telling you the same story you've always told yourself. This can be both a good and a bad thing, but in the case of negative/self destructive thought patterns, it is certainly a good thing. Psychedelics were considered a breakthrough before they got demonized and illegalized in the late 60s/early 70s. There was a ton of research and they were taking the world of psychiatry by storm as being able to accomplish in one or several sessions what used to be accomplished in years. There is truly tremendous potential, and I think it's mostly because they allow people to be able to view themselves objectively and with love.

Once again, s0 glad it was such a positive outcome.

 

[Shady's Fox]

I mean, i understand now, I asked everyone here the impossible. Even with my recent positive experience, I too would never tell another person to give their child mushrooms. I’d be willing to talk about all day, but id never day the words “go ahead, do it”.

Depending on where you live she might more or less be able to obtain by herself if she's on that "path" but to say which is addicting or not is wrong because at some point the boredom gonna bite back and under which form, you might already be aware of. I think for medicinal use, shrooms/ayahuasca are a tool for discovering hidden "doors" in your brain but it always needs to be moderated and controlled because yes these two words means same thing but for some people don't, and that's why I say. She's 17, she's already developed genetically // womens body evolves at x10 rate of a man.

 

[G_Chem]

You know my dad took an approach with me when I was young that many disagreed with. He never really introduced me to drugs but he had near zero problem with me using them and certain drugs we’d use together (mainly weed that old man loves his smoke, but I’ve even done cocaine and once heroin.)

I had someone to go to when I was having a rough trip. One in particular I recall eating some real strong mushrooms with friends and at one point it go so intense my vision went entirely green and completely double. Not like drunk double where it’s a hazy double, clear as day it felt like it was seeing each image my eyeball was producing separately. Naturally I freaked out, ran into the bathroom and then proceeded to strip naked for some reason (I think I got hot.)

After awhile my buddies realized I was fucked and excused themselves, my dad came to the bathroom and told me they left and I’ll never forget in his southern matter of fact way “you ate a little too many huh?”

I then went and got comfortable on the couch and we just casually watched King of the Hill and 70’s Show (which to this day feel like “safe” shows to me) while I tripped harder than I ever had before or since on mush. His presence was so calming and knowing he was there for me even in that chaos was one of many moments that make him a huge part of my life.

That trip though, it was like a poltergeist took over the house. The wall paper looked like it was on a conveyor belt. Furniture was sliding around so fast and hard, nothing was still. The old clock looked warped and everything had the essence of some horror clown house. Never have I had open eye visuals even close to this.

I think it can be healthy for parents to have a relationship with their children regarding drugs, introducing only in more needed contexts when the parent feels the child will truly benefit from the experience. Just as we’d give our children medicine for a cold, i feel psychedelics can be medicine for the soul. And while controversial I believe one could benefit from such experiences before 18 if done so in a guiding way like we see with the OP.

-GC

 

[moonyham]

Your kid needs to gtfo those pills. Honestly it hurts me to hear these stories. Entire generation being drugged up from the start, what chance do they have.

 

[pupnik]

I used to trip with my wife. she is no longer interested.
I never thought that I might trip with my daughters, but both have mushroom experiences on their own and one did a mini dose with me three years ago when she was 30
really it depends on their interest.
if it fits and if they are interested, then proceed, but I do not think full dosing is advisable
there is still a parental relationship, custodial, so being in charge so to speak is part of it. you need to be able to support, and do not need to push any limits.
keeping the dose low makes sense for this kind of thing.
natural setting but familiar setting too.
good luck.
enjoy

 

[FredF]

Your kid needs to gtfo those pills. Honestly it hurts me to hear these stories. Entire generation being drugged up from the start, what chance do they have.

Indeed, I’m right there with you.

I appreciate the value of, as someone else put it, that they numbed her out, and that helped at the time. As in, she may not be here if she didn’t numb out her emotion at the time.

But then what? Stay like that?

Ok, the initial goal was to make sure she wouldn’t go too far with the self harm. The meds helped with that. Sort of, I suppose. But nothing else was going to happen any time soon if a different course of action wasn’t taken. As I said, in just a few hours, the mushrooms got her farther than years of those damn pills.

You should’ve heard our conversations today. We understand each other. And I Know very well, having 25 years of off and on experience with psychedelics myself, that it’s easy right after trip. But I also know how to stretch it, when to go back for another trip to get more.

For my own therapy, I no longer have to trip anymore. Or, at least for the time being. In the past 6 months (basically the time frame I’ve been considering giving them to my kid) I’ve probably tripped a bit more than is recommended.

I was chasing the introspection, and a lot was coming, fast, every time. But I realized very recently, that right now I am constantly in that mode of introspection. Almost with the same efficacy as being high. I shit you not. Blew my mind. I suppose it’s my version of hanging up the phone. In a couple 2-3 months or so if my daughter and I feel it’s time for her to go again, I’ll go with her, but for me, right now I’m always there.

When I started this current, specific journey 6 months ago, I wanted recreation. Mostly. I didn’t mean for it happen but the trips turned into something I was afraid to try any time before. In silent darkness. And therapeutically, it makes a world of difference.

And, when I have planned out each trip, I still plan on having some fun. I always tell myself that next time I will listen to some songs, watch a movie. I never end up doing though. Now, it’s just sitting with myself and my tears, and they’re never felt so good.

 

[moonyham]

Indeed, I’m right there with you.

I appreciate the value of, as someone else put it, that they numbed her out, and that helped at the time. As in, she may not be here if she didn’t numb out her emotion at the time.

But then what? Stay like that?

Ok, the initial goal was to make sure she wouldn’t go too far with the self harm. The meds helped with that. Sort of, I suppose. But nothing else was going to happen any time soon if a different course of action wasn’t taken. As I said, in just a few hours, the mushrooms got her farther than years of those damn pills.

You should’ve heard our conversations today. We understand each other. And I Know very well, having 25 years of off and on experience with psychedelics myself, that it’s easy right after trip. But I also know how to stretch it, when to go back for another trip to get more.

For my own therapy, I no longer have to trip anymore. Or, at least for the time being. In the past 6 months (basically the time frame I’ve been considering giving them to my kid) I’ve probably tripped a bit more than is recommended.

I was chasing the introspection, and a lot was coming, fast, every time. But I realized very recently, that right now I am constantly in that mode of introspection. Almost with the same efficacy as being high. I shit you not. Blew my mind. I suppose it’s my version of hanging up the phone. In a couple 2-3 months or so if my daughter and I feel it’s time for her to go again, I’ll go with her, but for me, right now I’m always there.

When I started this current, specific journey 6 months ago, I wanted recreation. Mostly. I didn’t mean for it happen but the trips turned into something I was afraid to try any time before. In silent darkness. And therapeutically, it makes a world of difference.

And, when I have planned out each trip, I still plan on having some fun. I always tell myself that next time I will listen to some songs, watch a movie. I never end up doing though. Now, it’s just sitting with myself and my tears, and they’re never felt so good.

Right on, bro. Love this post. Pschye drugs are a band aid. They can often be great in a pinch but you will need to take care of the wound eventually. Unfortunately most doctors just stack more band aids on and time/resources to 'deal with the wound' are not available to most people without the help of a caring family member or friend.

I'm a big fan of psychedelics. Taking acid with my girlfriend after being together for 7 years is one of the best decisions I've ever made. It feels like I'm in an entirely new level of bond with her. Sex is at a level I didn't think possible. We have almost become 'one' it's hard to describe. We started doing trips a few months ago and life has never been better, Ive never been so close with someone.

I'm happy to hear you are having a positive outcome and I wish you and your daughter all the best for the bright future ahead.

 

[Madrus]

The effects will wear off, but if the experience is properly integrated, it will last.
Psychedelic therapy:
1% trip
99% post-trip

Integration!

 

[arrall]

@FredF Thank you for sharing your daughter's incredible story.
As @Madrus said, there is still much work to be done post-trip but the trip is the catalyst that allows that work to happen.
Very glad that this turned out as well as it did.

 

[FredF]

Guys, my vision. Is spaghetti, but I’m gonna try.

Sometimes, I don’t know how to do it. But after someone invests some time to listen, to me, it all makes sense. My point is understood. Generally.

There are clearly people here like that, and I appreciate those who have met me here,in that way, Because it may have saved me child’s life.

As much as you can understand me thanking you for that as much as possibly could, in any way I could, it’s more. Much more. think about it. I’m so thankful to everyone. Everything feels different. I’m so thankful.

I couldn’t do it, in a way

Be here fully for someone else I’m here because it’s personal to me.

You’re here because you’re better than me. I give you that. It’s friendly. I love giving you my failure as your victory.

From here guys, it’s always hits different. We know that. We say we get it, but from here, it always hits different.

As far as I understand integration, that’s how close and far it gets.

Grammar heavily gets in my way of me being fully understood. As we are doing it now. Reading.

I assure you, even though I find a way here, verbally, everything is different.


Fuck, I thank you guys. Anyone who gave me a minute.

Guys, I’m trying too. Honestly. For me and for someone else


And in fact, I’m very happy to say, as this occurred to me as I type, naturally, I actually am like that.

I was lead to believe, because of where my soul landed, and what I did with it, people couldn’t help to say I’m no good. It’s not their fault either.

They told me I sucked. I eventually believed it. That’s how it works.

Careful , mindful of how you talk to young people.

Im telling you things I can’t do.

But today, I honestly understand my soul is golden. It’s true. Fact.

It’s getting close.

The day I bring it back, the day I can invest in you, you’ll love me. I assure you. That’s how it goes.

Drugs got in my way, they did. Heavily. Oh, the things I would’ve had. Oh, What I lost.

Guys. It’s hard to say this and not be egotistical, but just like my child, not only would I have made it, I would’ve been at the very top tier at what I do. It is fact.

Man, when. Think of what I could’ve had. Not even materially. People would’ve known my name.


As drugs possibly may be saving us,
her and I, today, they took my life away from me.

They crushed me. Beat me. Totaled me. Fuck.

She has to get those rewards. She deserves them. Her soul deserves the happiness that’ll come.


Don’t get it twisted, I’m here telling you about me. But it’s all for her.


If I did in fact fail until the end of it, if drugs did this to me, and led me back to mushrooms, and it took us to that moment that saved her fucking life, so be it.

In a way, from somewhere far away from us, that would sooth my soul more than anything.

You people need to heard my emotion. I thank you for what you gave me.


When I told her, that in way, I would glady give myself over an over again as a complete failure if it took us to that moment, it hit her, how much I actually love her in a way a 17 year can’t understand.

And it hit her. And it made me so happy.

It needs to be made clear, this is to emphasize a point.

That is not how the story ends. She will not be visiting father in a hospital. At least not anytime soon. We will both be there for this, successfully.

Successful in this case, has nothing to to with professionally. Our souls made it.


What a moment.


While someone else could look at me as 90 years of failure, and they’d be right, but that was magic.

Guys, she believes. I fucking love it. She believes in herself. She believes to trust her intuition.

It’s right. Always I swear.

It feels like that anyway, and im sure thats not true, but I’m telling you, this girl is a gift to this planet, and she knows it now.

It goes away. I’ll pull it out of her. It’s her natural self.




Sometimes it feels like someone is insulting someone else’s child, it’s not like that.


In place where she isn’t my child, I could meet her intellectually in a way, and see that she is special.


You guys don’t understand what im talking about. This woman can help the planet. Souls.

And if she so chooses to do something else professionallly, which is perfectly ok, she will dominate.

I’m sure. She’s sure, even in days it completely escapes her. We know this as fact.

I could go on, and I will. As long as feel like it.


Someone will take the time. It astonishes me.

If you’re doing it, good for you.

You invest in souls.


And I don’t care if someone’s gauge for the quality of life is material goods, your soul is beautiful.


I try to give back, in my way but there is no lie here.


You are good


Doubts creep in, because you know things about your life that I don’t.


Maybe there are some ways that you are not good. It’s ok. We are what we are.

A raccoon will make noise and leave a mess. He’s a racoon. It’s ok.


You are you, and in your “failure”, you are gorgeous. It is fact.

Im trying to give you something, no exaggeration is necessary.


I like to flaunt my feathers sometimes. Is pride actually a sin?

Do it. It feels good. Because there a reason to be proud.

I know how this sounds to some people, at certain times on your life. I lived it. But friend, you are not bad.
I know someone doesn’t believe me. You’re wrong. You will get this, one day. Feels great.

Please, you’re human, we are where are. How much do we understand?


I don’t know, ever where my conversation will lead, but I always get to my point, to anyone who is invested, openly.

Thank you, whoever you are.



Likes don’t mean a thing to me. I’ve never pressed it,and feel free to do as you may, but it means nothing to me. I love you. You love me too. What do likes matter?

I don’t know your name because I’m forgetful, because of drugs.

invest. I’ll know it.


You are good.



Guys, I’ve chased this shit. In a sense, I did wrong. Completely.

The things that happen to my stomach because I have to make up for tolerance. Man, I got stories, if anyone could bare them.

I don’t know. If I wasted my stomach, if I mangled my mind beyond repair, from one angle, it was worth it, for her. If it took us the moment that saved her life. I’m convinced it did.

She has no reason to be that irresponsible. It could possibly take away what’s actually destined to happen to her.

The world is waiting for her.

A child can’t help but think their parent would only say such things because, what else would a parent say? And it’s true.

She now understands that’s only one side of it. She knows that regardless of it coming from a place of me being her parent, it is also fact. She owns whatever she wants.

I’m just happy.


Baby girl, my love. There is leg work you have to do

Do it. You have no idea the reward that’s waiting.

I want to talk endlessly.

I do. About everything. About nothing.

I want to poke. Dig


It terrifies many. It is 100% good, in the end.

I want to talk. Endlessly.

But I want to sleep

 

[Nas47]

You know my dad took an approach with me when I was young that many disagreed with. He never really introduced me to drugs but he had near zero problem with me using them and certain drugs we’d use together (mainly weed that old man loves his smoke, but I’ve even done cocaine and once heroin.)

I had someone to go to when I was having a rough trip. One in particular I recall eating some real strong mushrooms with friends and at one point it go so intense my vision went entirely green and completely double. Not like drunk double where it’s a hazy double, clear as day it felt like it was seeing each image my eyeball was producing separately. Naturally I freaked out, ran into the bathroom and then proceeded to strip naked for some reason (I think I got hot.)

After awhile my buddies realized I was fucked and excused themselves, my dad came to the bathroom and told me they left and I’ll never forget in his southern matter of fact way “you ate a little too many huh?”

I then went and got comfortable on the couch and we just casually watched King of the Hill and 70’s Show (which to this day feel like “safe” shows to me) while I tripped harder than I ever had before or since on mush. His presence was so calming and knowing he was there for me even in that chaos was one of many moments that make him a huge part of my life.

That trip though, it was like a poltergeist took over the house. The wall paper looked like it was on a conveyor belt. Furniture was sliding around so fast and hard, nothing was still. The old clock looked warped and everything had the essence of some horror clown house. Never have I had open eye visuals even close to this.

I think it can be healthy for parents to have a relationship with their children regarding drugs, introducing only in more needed contexts when the parent feels the child will truly benefit from the experience. Just as we’d give our children medicine for a cold, i feel psychedelics can be medicine for the soul. And while controversial I believe one could benefit from such experiences before 18 if done so in a guiding way like we see with the OP.

-GC

Ye o got this "double"vision from shroom sometimes too.when they hit hard.from strong shrooms or just a little more.

 

[Snafu in the Void]

@FredF I hope your daughter knows how much you love her and want the best for her