Psychedelic Euphoria vs. MDMA Euphoria

[K-Dazed]

Here's an analogy I came up with earlier. I love analogies. I know drugs and their effects usually can't be compared, but I like trying sometimes anyway.

Amphetamine euphoria is like getting a massage.

Psychedelic euphoria is like finally learning a song on the guitar that you've been trying for years to learn.


A massage is easy. An external source is making you feel euphoric, a kind of "Oh I feel so good right now" kind of feeling and you don't have to do anything to get it. The feeling is instantaneous, and happens constantly and intensely for a while....however it ends just as quickly and abruptly as it started. When it's over, you may have a short-lasting feeling of satisfaction, but that will soon go away simply leaving you wanting another massage. You can keep going back and getting more massages, but they get less and less satisfying every time, and eventually they will either lose their value completely, or worse, you won't be able to get through the day without a massage. In the end, going for massage after massage gains you nothing but a hole in your wallet.

However, if you learn a song after trying for so long, you get a euphoria that comes from the inside, a kind of "I'm so happy right now" feeling, and you feel like you earned it. The initial heightened state of euphoria will wear off after knowing the song for a while, but it will never completely leave you. You can't unlearn the song, and simply knowing that you know how to play that song will induce its own euphoria any time you think about it. You will also feel encouraged to learn more and use this new knowledge and experience to achieve new goals and reach new levels, like playing with a band, cutting your first album, playing your first show, etc.. There will be a new euphoria with each new experience, each time better than the last and each experience will contribute to the next.

You're making out MDMA euphoria to simply be a physical thing with this analogy - it isn't. The fact that I favour MDMA euphoria over psyche euphoria is because I can connect to others better, and have more deep conversations whilst on MDMA. The euphoria I get from stimulated conversation, the physical sensations, and the loving sensation I get make me love MDMA euphoria more.

Again, I do love me my psyches though. But, I like to dose fairly high to get beautiful visuals and to tackle my mind more "deeper", but when I do these high doses I become introverted and don't have deep conversations like I would want to.

 

[atara]

I found 2Cs more rewarding than shrooms, and acid better than both. MDMA is in a class of its own.

2Cs are great for conversation. Shrooms not so much. MDMA is great for everything.

 

[nativenick]

for me mdma is more about a bonding experience with people, thats where i feel the euphoria. mdma honestly blows with out people imo. i need people when i roll. mushrooms when you have a euphoric trip its a very different euphoria then mdma like comparing apples and oranges. i dont need people to feel that wonderful heavenly feeling on mushrooms it all comes from inside me. i honestly just get lost in my thoughts. in all honestly on shrooms the most euphoric trips have been solo ones wheras the most terrifying mushroom trips were group tripping

basically for me mdma is a more social kind of euphoria where you bond with people thats where most of the magic comes from

mushrooms is a more introspective kind of euphoria where i get to know me

 

[Percussion_is_Free]

I agree with most of your points except for "it's natural", since that's an arbitrary standpoint. One could just as validly argue that since humans are natural, so are Large Hadron Colliers and nuclear weapons.

True, but the upshot is "natural" drugs come with guarantees. Cubensis = psilocybin. Pill = ??

 

[StaySedated]

MDMA euphoria is a "direct" euphoria- its due to my brain being flooded with "feel good" nerotransmitters and is a forced feeling that is only the result of MDMA's mechanism of action.

psychedelic euphoria is more of an "indirect" euphoria- a result of realization of ones self, not "forced" euphoria but the grand feeling of well being that comes from learning the truth about one's soul on one's own. it's a more natural and distinctive euphoria.

i say psychedelic euphoria is better, as it's a result of not only the drug but also yourself.

 

[Psychodelirium]

Has it been anyone's experience that the euphoria can be exactly the same? Maybe my brain is just weird but I was totally floored the first time I rolled because I found it to be an almost identical headspace to one that I've been in on mushrooms and everyone had told me that the drugs are nothing alike.

Well, the mechanisms of action may be nothing alike, but I think the high-level psychological effects that they produce have some things in common.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

True, but the upshot is "natural" drugs come with guarantees. Cubensis = psilocybin. Pill = ??

This is a HUGE point I'm trying to make. Euphoria as a RESULT from a drug doesn't mean just from the direct effects from the drug. It's all factors considered that is going to contribute to your overall level of happiness....or euphoria.

For example, if I take a drug that was cooked up in someone's bathtub somewhere (or who knows where with who knows what), with unknown cuts and other unknown psycho-actives, and also the well known fact of neuro-toxicity, there's always going to be that slight discomfort involved, thus reducing euphoria. With something like shrooms that have been used for 1000's of years, have just as much time worth of research put into them, are completely natural, never can be cut with anything, and have a relatively low/non-existant level of neuro-toxicity, I know exactly what I'm getting, I'm well informed about it, and I also know it's not damaging my brain. This increases euphoria.....or at the very least decreases anxiety.

I agree with many points, like MDMA stimulating bonding and conversation while psych's are more introverted. I absolutely agree with this but I also have felt the exact same feeling with shrooms. The only difference in the conversations is they have many more long pauses, laying on your back and kinda dropping in and out of reality, and then coming back, and then talking about what you just experienced. MDMA is more just fluent conversation, and every word that leaves your mouth is orgasmic, especially when you have a group of other people (rolling too) listening to you. You feed off of other people and it triggers even more euphoria. Only problem is that I can see taking MDMA by myself, and enjoying it but no where NEARLY as much as I would if there were others with me. Also, I can't imagine how depressing the comedown must be when you're all alone...

I feel like the psychs teach you how to be euphoric on your own, by yourself, from yourself. Drugs or no drugs.

MDMA euphoria is a "direct" euphoria- its due to my brain being flooded with "feel good" nerotransmitters and is a forced feeling that is only the result of MDMA's mechanism of action.

psychedelic euphoria is more of an "indirect" euphoria- a result of realization of ones self, not "forced" euphoria but the grand feeling of well being that comes from learning the truth about one's soul on one's own. it's a more natural and distinctive euphoria.

i say psychedelic euphoria is better, as it's a result of not only the drug but also yourself.

Also an excellent point, similar to what I've been saying.

You're making out MDMA euphoria to simply be a physical thing with this analogy - it isn't. The fact that I favour MDMA euphoria over psyche euphoria is because I can connect to others better, and have more deep conversations whilst on MDMA. The euphoria I get from stimulated conversation, the physical sensations, and the loving sensation I get make me love MDMA euphoria more.

I do suppose my analogy may put that idea across. Basically, what I was trying to say is that MDMA is amazing for now, but does nothing for later. Psych's are amazing for now, and don't really stop being amazing until you let it stop.

Obviously, guys, everyone is going to have a different opinion, preference and reasoning, hence this topic for discussion. Great points being made here, thank you all for the maturity.

 

[DwayneHoover]

I hate the fact this topic is named "vs."

That is encouraging juvenile insistence that everyones favorite flavor is "THE BEST" and somehow intrinsically superior.

THAT'S JUST CRAZY!

I love BOTH flavors of drug-induced euphoria... each has its time and place and purpose.

I REFUSE to decide which I like "best" or which is "superior".

FUCK "VS."!!!

 

[sheepie]

I choose MDMA euphoria.

It feels pure, genuine, real. It doesn't feel forced. I just feel so comfortable being myself.

Shrooms on the other hand is a real mindfuck. Don't get me wrong, I love shrooms. I owe my life to them. It taught me a lot of things where MDMA has not. But in terms of euphoria, it simply doesn't live up to MDMA.

Edit: Except ONCE... that was fuckin sick.

 

[whoseanb]

eminding me "You're not actually this cool, remember, you're rolling."
[*]As far as come downs are concerned, MDMA has probably the worst come down ever. Life feels empty, boring, annoying, tiring , and all I can think about is how I wish I was still high, and how I'm destroying myself with these drugs. Shrooms had a very nice, easy float back down to Earth leaving me with a feeling of enlightenment.[*]The day after rolling sucks, I feel completely drained of energy, still wishing I was high, still thinking that I'm ruining my brain, and feeling like sober life just sucks.[/B] QUOTE]

This, is, EXACTLY HOW I FEEL.

Let me get this out the way, I LOVE ROLLING. But got dammit these reasons that he listed above is what's keeping me from rolling. (It's been about 1 month since I last rolled and I actually don't plan on rolling again) I've been rolling here and there for about 6 years now and the come down has finally got too much for me.
It's just not fucking worth it man.

You feel like superman for a few hours, you love the world, you have all the confidence you could ever dream of, you love everyone...But for no fucking reason at all. It just doesn't make any sense and in the back of your mind...You know it's not real and will be gone VERY shortly. But, you just enjoy the feeling and say fuck it, this feels good.

But the next day?(That's if you've even slept any) I don't even have motivation to get off the fucking couch and brush my fucking teeth! It sucks man. I can't see how someone could go to work feeling like that. I've literally had to call out from work a few times after my dumb ass ended up rolling on a sunday.

Words can't explain how much I hate the comedown off X. I love the high but dam, is it worth it? I remember MANY nights just laying in my bed watching the sunrise unable to sleep just hating what I've done to myself thinking "You fucking idiot, are you happy now? Now your dumb ass can't fucking sleep because you wanted to feel good for a couple hours and guess what dummy, you're not going to want to eat any food the next day no matter how tasty it looks".

Yea, the comedown off X has pretty much scared me off. And this is after 6 years of dealing with it I've finally had enough. THIS is the reason I'm trying so hard to find shrooms, lsd, 2c's ANY FUCKING THING!

 

[whoseanb]

I choose MDMA euphoria.

It feels pure, genuine, real. It doesn't feel forced. I just feel so comfortable being myself.

Shrooms on the other hand is a real mindfuck. Don't get me wrong, I love shrooms. I owe my life to them. It taught me a lot of things where MDMA has not. But in terms of euphoria, it simply doesn't live up to MDMA.

Edit: Except ONCE... that was fuckin sick.

I'll take a psychedelic mindfuck ANY DAY over a MDMA crash!

 

[Help?!?!]

I hate the fact this topic is named "vs."

That is encouraging juvenile insistence that everyones favorite flavor is "THE BEST" and somehow intrinsically superior.

THAT'S JUST CRAZY!

I love BOTH flavors of drug-induced euphoria... each has its time and place and purpose.

I REFUSE to decide which I like "best" or which is "superior".

FUCK "VS."!!!

Your getting way to involved here. Your acting as if each persons opinion is a set in stone fact or some sort of attack. I love all psychedelics, that being said I would only be lying to myself if I said their weren't some that I liked more than others. I still differ from others in that I feel they all have their place. For me personally when I make posts like I did, their simply stating my opinions, not attempting to say one is better than the other(as if its fact). Refusing to decide which ones best is fine. If the question were Mescaline vs 2c-e I wouldn't be able to tell you which I liked better but with this question I do.

 

[nopipesdfw]

I hate the fact this topic is named "vs."

That is encouraging juvenile insistence that everyones favorite flavor is "THE BEST" and somehow intrinsically superior.

THAT'S JUST CRAZY!

I love BOTH flavors of drug-induced euphoria... each has its time and place and purpose.

I REFUSE to decide which I like "best" or which is "superior".

FUCK "VS."!!!

____ and ____ is inherently better than ___ vs. ___ for me, too.

 

[AfterGlow]

Before I started abusing MDMA, it left me with the most wonderful new insight and afterglow that lasted for weeks after rolling. It did not leave me wanting more.

 

[sheepie]

eminding me "You're not actually this cool, remember, you're rolling."
[*]As far as come downs are concerned, MDMA has probably the worst come down ever. Life feels empty, boring, annoying, tiring , and all I can think about is how I wish I was still high, and how I'm destroying myself with these drugs. Shrooms had a very nice, easy float back down to Earth leaving me with a feeling of enlightenment.[*]The day after rolling sucks, I feel completely drained of energy, still wishing I was high, still thinking that I'm ruining my brain, and feeling like sober life just sucks.[/B] QUOTE]

This, is, EXACTLY HOW I FEEL.

Let me get this out the way, I LOVE ROLLING. But got dammit these reasons that he listed above is what's keeping me from rolling. (It's been about 1 month since I last rolled and I actually don't plan on rolling again) I've been rolling here and there for about 6 years now and the come down has finally got too much for me.
It's just not fucking worth it man.

You feel like superman for a few hours, you love the world, you have all the confidence you could ever dream of, you love everyone...But for no fucking reason at all. It just doesn't make any sense and in the back of your mind...You know it's not real and will be gone VERY shortly. But, you just enjoy the feeling and say fuck it, this feels good.

But the next day?(That's if you've even slept any) I don't even have motivation to get off the fucking couch and brush my fucking teeth! It sucks man. I can't see how someone could go to work feeling like that. I've literally had to call out from work a few times after my dumb ass ended up rolling on a sunday.

Words can't explain how much I hate the comedown off X. I love the high but dam, is it worth it? I remember MANY nights just laying in my bed watching the sunrise unable to sleep just hating what I've done to myself thinking "You fucking idiot, are you happy now? Now your dumb ass can't fucking sleep because you wanted to feel good for a couple hours and guess what dummy, you're not going to want to eat any food the next day no matter how tasty it looks".

Yea, the comedown off X has pretty much scared me off. And this is after 6 years of dealing with it I've finally had enough. THIS is the reason I'm trying so hard to find shrooms, lsd, 2c's ANY FUCKING THING!

I got that type of come down from shrooms. I remember walking home and just saying to myself "What the fuck am I trying to do... why the fuck am I doing these drugs". I never got that from MDMA... The weird thing is, that particular shrooming happened to be the best shroom experience I ever had. It was the happiest I've ever been in my entire life, even happier than MDMA. And it was only like 1.8g. But yeah, it had a really bad comedown.

 

[whoseanb]

I got that type of come down from shrooms. I remember walking home and just saying to myself "What the fuck am I trying to do... why the fuck am I doing these drugs". I never got that from MDMA... The weird thing is, that particular shrooming happened to be the best shroom experience I ever had. It was the happiest I've ever been in my entire life, even happier than MDMA. And it was only like 1.8g. But yeah, it had a really bad comedown.

Great...You're the first person mentioning a bad come down from shrooms. If the come down is anywhere near as a "crash and fucking burn" (Me and my brother call it that.) come down from MDMA, I'm staying far, far, far away from it. I'll still give it a try because I have to experience something myself before I decide wheather or not it's my thing. But I won't keep falling for that MDMA trap where my mind is so set on the intial high and I ignore what I'm going to be feeling like after the highs gone.

Come downs absolutely fucking suck!

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

The moderator changed the title to say "vs". Perhaps they can change it?

When I first started rolling, the source I was getting it from was getting it 100% direct and pure from it's birthplace. My friends and I didn't really know the value of it at the time, but still knew we loved rolling at first sight!! We nabbed up what we could, om nomed all of it, and then the source fell through for reasons left unsaid. After that, we've tried other sources and it never ever even comes remotely close to the experiences I had on the first source.

Having said that, every time I've rolled on the pure stuff, it was always an easy, smooth float back down to earth, and sleeping on it (even while still somewhat high!!) was effortless. Any other rolls I got thereafter leave me jittery as all hell when I try to sleep. With the more pure stuff, I could start floating back down (was much more of a float instead of a crash), go to bed and sleep straight through all of the come down. Wake up the next day feeling great and still having slight rushes of euphoria here and there.

I feel like the shrooms were just like that for me, and feel like they will be every time. I can't see "crashing" from shrooms.

So, for those more knowledgeable than I, what could cause that difference in MDMA experiences I've had? Does pure, uncut MDMA effect you in such a way where you float down instead of crash, and can actually sleep even while still kinda high? Is it usually methamphetamine cuts that cause the over-stimulation, jitteryness and hard crash? Or could it be like one chemist can actually make better MDMA than another? I've only ever taken molly, never had E pills.

I'm sure there's a whole bucket of reasons, but from your experiences, what's a tell tale sign that your MDMA is very pure/very cut as far as the high is concerned?

 

[DwayneHoover]

Super harsh comedowns are probably the result of cuts with amphetamine. Pure MDMA can actually be somewhat sedating, some will tell you, and I felt myself on some real pure Molly I got once. I almost nodded out during the peak! There's a reason they add stimulants... not just to "cut" and stretch supply/profits, but it feels stronger and people tend to like to be awake for all the Cosmic Love feelings, which are more vivid with a little stim added and not just like some hazy woozy dream, half-remembered.

Although... Shulgin himself mentioned the downer comedown effect, and noted that a dose of 2c-b at the peak of the MDMA seemed to totally eliminate all signs of harshness on comedown, as well as extending the peak. And I would think he if anyone would have been doing 100% pure clean MDMA, so I guess it does have a harsh landing for some... possibly less for others due to variance in neurochemistry.... perhaps even nutritional status, and/or supplements being used could change this effect from person to person. I've read research (granted in rats) showing that large doses of vitamin C, alpha-lipoic-acid, and/or coenzyme Q-10 ("CO-Q10") can totally block the neuron damaging effects caused by extremely large overdoses of injected MDMA. So I would guess this might affect the harshness of comedown" also.

Preloading for a week with 5-HTP and maybe Tyrosine and/or Phenethylamine might be sure your vesicles are fully stocked with neurotransmitters so you don't have a shortage during comedown... I'd bet serotonin or norepinephrine depletion is what causes those icky feelings. Finally, I would bet a good liquid protein supplement drink with vitamins like a whey protein mix, or a pre-mixed "Muscle Milk" or something similar that has LOADS of protein, aminos and vitamins probably helps ALOT with bad comedowns, too.

 

[fermi]

IME, MDMA euphoria does not even touch LSD euphoria in terms of intensity and scope.

(will elaborate later)

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Super harsh comedowns are probably the result of cuts with amphetamine. Pure MDMA can actually be somewhat sedating, some will tell you, and I felt myself on some real pure Molly I got once. I almost nodded out during the peak! There's a reason they add stimulants... not just to "cut" and stretch supply/profits, but it feels stronger and people tend to like to be awake for all the Cosmic Love feelings, which are more vivid with a little stim added and not just like some hazy woozy dream, half-remembered.

Although... Shulgin himself mentioned the downer comedown effect, and noted that a dose of 2c-b at the peak of the MDMA seemed to totally eliminate all signs of harshness on comedown, as well as extending the peak. And I would think he if anyone would have been doing 100% pure clean MDMA, so I guess it does have a harsh landing for some... possibly less for others due to variance in neurochemistry.... perhaps even nutritional status, and/or supplements being used could change this effect from person to person. I've read research (granted in rats) showing that large doses of vitamin C, alpha-lipoic-acid, and/or coenzyme Q-10 ("CO-Q10") can totally block the neuron damaging effects caused by extremely large overdoses of injected MDMA. So I would guess this might affect the harshness of comedown" also.

Preloading for a week with 5-HTP and maybe Tyrosine and/or Phenethylamine might be sure your vesicles are fully stocked with neurotransmitters so you don't have a shortage during comedown... I'd bet serotonin or norepinephrine depletion is what causes those icky feelings. Finally, I would bet a good liquid protein supplement drink with vitamins like a whey protein mix, or a pre-mixed "Muscle Milk" or something similar that has LOADS of protein, aminos and vitamins probably helps ALOT with bad comedowns, too.

That's exactly how it was, sedating. Any time we ever took it, we didn't want to do anything but sit there and space out, bond with each other, hug it out (even all guys), but no desire to run around, dance, move, etc.. The energy was there, and available, but my body wasn't saying "use it use it use it!!!". Perhaps that's why it's less harsh of a comedown too, because you're not being over stimulated and using up all sorts of energy you don't actually have, and then when the drug starts wearing off, your body starts to feel as it should feel if you just forced yourself to dance for hours with no energy. Like complete SHIT! I've never danced or been active on the pure stuff, just chilled and bonded with friends every time. However I have done the same thing with other sourced MDMA, wasn't nearly as good, not nearly as visual or "magical", and had a horrible crash and over-stimulation.

Bah, makes me miss that ol' stuff. We talk about it all the time around here. "Remember that molly we used to get?"