☮ Social ☮ PD Social: Cross-dimensional chatter. Now featuring mesphereomeantoliopeme.

[Jesusgreen]

^ In that case thank you SKL :D

What's with DXM everywhere lately? Have I missed some new law where all people are given free DXM every day or something? It seems like it with the influx of threads.

 

[Dondante]

...Also in my experience even NDRIs like Ritalin promote more positive emotions than SSRIs do. Serotonin doesn't reinforce good feelings, but rather enforces dominant feelings, confidence, and a blunting of strong emotions whether happy or sad. Dopamine on the other hand, as we all know, is very "feelsgoodman" unless you have too much

Disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, or a scientist. But from the amount of time I've spent studying SSRIs and similar drugs - and my experiences with SSRI users (and their experiences for that matter) I could never endorse them and I think it's shocking that we prescribe them

I am a doctor and a training psychiatrist. I agree that we don't have any "very effective" antidepressants. And TBH, I'm also shocked by how frequently SSRIs are prescribed, but I think it's a bit silly to be shocked that they are prescribed at all.

I want to point out three things. First of all, anecdotal evidence is the least reliable kind of evidence. To be fair, I've heard many success stories, plenty of equivocal accounts or complaints about side effects, and a few withdrawal horror stories, which seem to be limited to those who stop taking a medication too abruptly...I know plenty of people that have successfully tapered off of SSRIs and feel fine. Secondly, you've expressed a few theories that are not supported by evidence (e.g. "serotonin enforces dominant feelings, confidence, and blunting of strong emotions"). The bit about dopamine being the feel good neurotransmitter is at least as erroneous as the low serotonin = depression hypothesis. Thirdly, I think there is some confusion about why antidepressants are prescribed. These drugs are intended to treat depression and anxiety - to help individuals who are debilitated by their symptoms - not to bring good feelings or promote euphoria.

p.s. I don't know how things are done in Poland, but SSRIs are almost never prescribed for Bipolar I in the U.S. and SSRIs are indeed used for severe depression (not sure what other treatments you're referring to).

 

[SKL]

Gosh, tianeptine. What a weird drug. Very short-acting. The crack of anti-depressants. But it does make you feel nice, at least for 1/2 an hour or so. I never tried taking it for any extended period of time, though.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely not saying they haven't helped people, I just think we should be looking at alternatives - as you said, going on anecdotal evidence alone is a bad idea, but I've never really seen anyone get through their depression with SSRIs without the aid of therapy - however I have seen people get through it with therapy and no SSRIs. To me that would suggest therapy is more effective than a type of drug with lots of nasty side-effects, but that's jumping to a conclusion rather quickly.

I'm mainly shocked that they're prescribed because several of them didn't even perform well enough over placebo to meet NICE standards etc - they can help some people, but whether they help or not seems to be hit or miss, whereas I think anyone will agree they all have plenty of side-effects, just less in some people than others.

My point regarding serotonin creating dominance is with regard to social aspects and such mainly, I've read a few abstracts from studies on the subject, so it doesn't seem to be without evidence - however I could be wrongly assuming that low serotonin suddenly makes you submissive and such. Out of lazyness, more wiki stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin#Gauge_of_social_situation - that said, I could be contradicting myself by all this, since I'm pretty sure in one of my previous posts I said I was unhappy with it being prescribed for anxiety - when for example, social dominance would help people with social anxiety like myself.

I'm not sure how it works in Poland, I've only lived here for a year, but I know people with BPD in both the US and UK who have been prescribed SSRIs, though usually in combination with mood stabilisers. Also: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16516304

All that said though, really my issue is with over-prescription not even the drugs themselves, I probably know 100x more people who take SSRIs than people who've attended a single therapy session, scary, no? I'd really like to see a system where these are only offered after someone has attended therapy for at least a month or so first.

 

[swilow]

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/598638-What-do-bags-have-to-do-with-a-trip

Its a good question.

 

[Jesusgreen]

I have no idea what she's talking about really, but I replied as best as I could.

Not sure if I underestimated the 6-APB hangover or if it's just the situation but I think I need to pop over to TDS. Not feeling good BL makes me feel somewhat better though, I'm not sure why haha.

 

[SKL]

Do bags have anything to do with a trip? What does bagging mean if someone has tripped you?
also I have had pictures change... pictures I know can't really change so
I've obviously been tripped with something. Its just small things but still
it is really weird.

 

[LSDMDMA&AMP]

Oops sorry custie if i misinterpreted you, i thought you were talking about just PD social.
i'd agree with wat never said.
Mang yall cracka remember when 6-APB was being hyped up by vendors/everyone was shitting brix in anticipation and PD was full of british people talking about (british accent on) rubbish like official 5 vendors, about benzo fury brand pellets, about the general wankerdom of vendors, the general malarky going on about 6-APB's effects and when it would come out, and a bunch of bloody wanker vendors moonlighting as people who tried xxxxx chemical and had a great time and where they got it at. Bloody fookin arsehole vendors sellin NRG1 and naphyrone, why cant they just come out with something well clever like mephedrone was so that you can just sit with ya mates at the pub watchin football and legally gettin proper mashed up innit? (british accent off)
whatever happened to that lol, i wanna try 6-APB though...
i can speak british english pretty well cant i guiz?
dude, i think i know what that girl is talking about how she got bagged
i think she just got tbagged.

 

[Jesusgreen]

like mephedrone was so that you can just sit with ya mates at the pub watchin football and legally gettin proper mashed up innit?

clapclap, that was pretty good (disclaimer: if anyone reading this doesn't know already, I'm British. I can be racist to myself.), brought a smile right back to my face, as did the pic SKL :D

Yeah the situation with 6-APB was a bit weird when it came out. I had absolutely zero interesting in trying it with all the fake vendor posts, the horrible reports etc when it came out. Even now over a year later, after reading many great reports, I was pretty convinced I was going to be really disappointed. I'm glad I was wrong :D YMMV though.

It's weird how my emotions are today. It's not a high, it's not a depression either, but the minute something upsets me I'm like a baby bawling my eyes out - the minute I see something funny or happy I'm grinning and laughing, overwhelmed with happiness. So very weird. I guess everyone's probably heard this all before from a million people after their first MDMA/MDA/6-APB/5-APB/etc experience though haha.

 

[Roger&Me]

My point regarding serotonin creating dominance is with regard to social aspects and such mainly, I've read a few abstracts from studies on the subject, so it doesn't seem to be without evidence - however I could be wrongly assuming that low serotonin suddenly makes you submissive and such. Out of lazyness, more wiki stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin#Gauge_of_social_situation - that said, I could be contradicting myself by all this, since I'm pretty sure in one of my previous posts I said I was unhappy with it being prescribed for anxiety - when for example, social dominance would help people with social anxiety like myself.

I don't think its useful to try to draw any simplified conclusions about the effects of serotonin on mood and behavior. Saying high 5-HT levels causes x behavior, or low 5-HT levels causes y behavior is a vast oversimplification. 5-HT is the most ancient signaling molecule in biological organisms, with the corresponding receptors arising in life over 700 million years ago. Because the 5-HT system has had such a long evolutionary history, it has come to regulate a very large number of physiological processes in very subtle ways that we don't yet fully understand. There are something like 14 different 5-HT receptor subtypes expressed in humans, which are all less than 25% homologous, and all of them activate different secondary messenger pathways; 5-HT3 isn't even a GPCR, its ionotropic.

The point I'm trying to make is that the 5-HT system is extremely complex, you can't just say "high serotonin makes you this" or "low serotonin makes you that"; that type of generalization just isn't useful. There are so many more factors that need to be considered like secondary messenger pathways, cross talk between 5-HT receptor subtypes, and the signaling effects of the other neurotransmitter systems which all interregulate.

As to SSRI antidepressants, who knows? Clinical studies are hard to interpret with all the grant-money grabbing that subtly effects the way researchers design studies and report results. I still think they are too widely prescribed when compared to their reported effectiveness, and there's no doubt about the fact that we still need better antidepressants in the pharmacopeia even if SSRIs are assumed to be effective.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Definitely a good point Roger, and I do wonder exactly how they test "social dominance". I was going to write a longer reply but I'm probably heading to bed in a moment, sorry.

Goodnight PD

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

This thread has had 190+ replies in four days. This is madness!

 

[Roger&Me]

Shiiit mang, back in '08 or '09 this thread would grow that much in a night. :D Sucks most of the old socials got lost in the last prune, those were fun to go back and read.

Speaking of back in the day, has anybody heard from Xorkoth? Hope that dude is doing well, he sure left abruptly.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Speaking of back in the day, has anybody heard from Xorkoth? Hope that dude is doing well, he sure left abruptly.

Last I heard he was doing well? I dunno, check the old social around halloween-ish maybe someone might have commented on that. Maybe. And socials growing too quick is problematic, on a forum I used to frequent (with a 20 page per thread limit) it got to the point where there was a new one every day, and all us casual posters stopped frequenting it because it became a totally inaccessible clique-ish thing. But I guess we've had good people stopping by here who haven't been frequenting this place lately, so it's a worthy cause for us to get chatty for.

Does anyone know what happened to nearjat? He hasn't logged on in over a month and things weren't going particularly well for him around the time he stopped posting.

 

[Jesusgreen]

Yeah I was wondering where nearjat went. I hope he's alright

I just checked his last post:

Calling this dual diagnosis treatment center tomorrow see what they can do for me tomorrow..counseling for some shit.

Might be in treatment, if so, I hope everything's going well

Xorkoth on the other hand, left back in March. Still don't know exactly what prompted him to leave since he wasn't very specific other than saying it was important he did but he wasn't in trouble or anything - I hope he posts back some day soon and lets us know how he's doing.

 

[Delsyd]

Xorkoth is doing well. I see him semi regularly. He no longer takes drugs except for ganja so BL is something he had to put behind him to get drugs off his mind. He asks me how things are going here though.

Hey SKL, Rog, Dondante and swirlow. See you all post in here makes it feel like an old school social meet up. Should all smoke some DMT for old times sake? I miss seeing you guys around and hope all is well in your lives.

 

[Roger&Me]

I miss seeing you guys around and hope all is well in your lives.

Likewise, brother

Should all smoke some DMT for old times sake?

Indole Love

Haha I gotta dig out my old deamster hat -- it was this wizard's hat from a dollar store halloween costume with a sign stapled to the top that said "deamster hat" :D Seldom did I blast off without it.

 

[Cyanoide]

I'm finally sleeping well after getting on mirtazapin again. The first days are horrible though, the grogginess is not nice at work. I actually took speed for the first time in 8 years on saturday because I was visiting a friend and was just too tired to do anything. I have loathed that stuff for so long but it did help for the sleepiness that's for sure. But I'm not going to touch it if it isn't really necessary like in this case. I would just have fallen asleep at my friend's flat otherwise.

Had a very enjoyable MXE experience yesterday, thank god mirtazapin doesn't damper that stuff.

 

[coelophysis]

Good afternoon everybody!
Too bad about the old socials being deleted in the prune. I wish we had at least saved some of the titles. They were classic.

 

[Thorns Have Roses]

Haha I gotta dig out my old deamster hat -- it was this wizard's hat from a dollar store halloween costume with a sign stapled to the top that said "deamster hat" :D Seldom did I blast off without it.

That's amazing, when the day eventually arrives when it is convenient for me to get a DMT extraction going, I will have to make such an accessory. That makes me think though, when I was in San Diego the other week, it was odd only seeing one person dressed up by the convention center (a homeless dude wearing a wizards hat and had a bunch of staves in his shopping cart). Or maybe he was just getting a head start in the line to get into Hall H for next year...