Harm Reduction New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

[Inoxia]

thx Inoxia.
On another note, sometimes I get a mild cramp kind of feeling to the right side of my stomach/liver.
I don't know which orgran this is, if it's kidneys, or the so called "GI tract" but this feeling seems more apparent a few days after using codeine for a while. It's only ever on the right side of my body, under the rib cage. Wondering if anyone else gets "digestic system" problems after Codeine use. I never get constipated or anything but do get a mild cramp sometimes like I said.
Is this some kind of Codeine w/d which I'm OK with or do u think this could be because of use regular use of the slightly soluble APAP every day CWE. (Somtimes I use several days in a row.) I suppose u could say I've used alot of APAP over my life just as regular Panadeine Forte. But always used as directed. So I'm assuming it's just the Codeine because I've never taken more apap than what has been written on the packet too.

I will switch to Ibuprofen if APAP is causing these problems. I've also read through a few of the pages & there is a few ppl saying they get more cloudy finishes from using Ibuprofen though.
I know that Ibuprofen is less soluble though, but maybe it has smaller particals or something which get thorugh. I dont understand chemistry all that much so someone might have to tell me more experiences
Basically could someone confirm that the end result is CLEARER from a Ibu extraction compared to APAP
btw a good way to compare how much opiate u got in ya final sulution is to compare the % of water u end up with to the % u originally usd & aply that % to the opiate dose.

That sounds like your liver, perhaps you should lay off it for a while. Taking the maximum recommended daily dose of APAP can still be harmful if you do it too regularly.

The solution is generally more cloudy with ibuprofen — infact it often covers the taste of codeine. As long as the majority of it has been filtered, which you can see, it's safe.

 

[Havokk]

I just took 6x 500/apap 30/codeine without a CWE because I loose to much codeine, am I able to drop 2x alepam anti- depressants with the apap?? And I'm also going to drop a antihistamine.

 

[Anon54]

I did get a FULL blood test for everything (well I asked to be tested for everything) but obviously everything doesnt litterally mean EVERYTHING 6 months ago. I'm not sure if that test includs liver finction. Or do u have to specifically ask for that certain test. cuz all my tests came out clean.
& ive done CWE heaps before that. I wouldnt take 4g of apap over 24 hrs. Even for pain.
when i was using panadeine forte actually for pain id only take like 2 a day, maybe 4 & only for a few days in a row.
Wish I had a scale to weigh how much apap I extract out using a hanky as the first filter before the coffee filter which doesnt seem to pick much apap up.
I have no idea what makes that slight mirky colour to the water. maybe the codeine itself, maybe the slightly soluble apap or maybe the pill binders. If something is soluble in water id assume it would still make it mirky.

It would be interesting to see some pics of other ppls final solutions I wanna see how clear mine is compared to other ppls. I'm assuming "slightly mirky" is fine & if anymore than the soluble APAP is in the water it would be noticibilly fall to the bottom.
If anyone does decide to upload a pic could u say how many mL are in the water, how much apap & how much codeine ya used too plz.

I did read somewhere on the internet that u may need to add more apap to let is "re-crystalize" I dont know what it was talking about. My solution is ALWAYS clearer than simply adding 1.5 grams of apap to the same amount of water or is this because my solution hasn't "re-crystalized" the apap. I dunno if anyone else has heard of this phenominum

I'm simply assuming that any insoluble apap would fall to the bottom & it is IMPOSSIBLE to have more than 1.5 grams of apap in 100mL of cold water without it falling to the bottom & being obviously noticable. Is this correct?
If so it wouldnt matter HOW murky the water is as long as uve used less than 150mL, the water is cold. Otherwise ud see it falling to the bottom within a few seconds, right?

 

[Anon54]

It's funny how when I use a hanky for first filtering (some may use a shirt or another fabric) most of it gets cought up & it's like a big rock. what I don't understand is why some of the apap gets through yet most is cought up as a solid & than when i try putting it through the hanky again it doesnt catch anymore.
I mean if the hanky catches 70% (or whatever it catches) of the apap the first time, shouldnt it catch 70% of it the second time, instead it doesn't catch any more apap! it's like some of the apap "mixes" with the water. or maybe isn't "crystalized" anymore.
This is what I don't understand, I know the coffee filter than stops the apap from getting through but I'm confused as to why u cant re-filter through the hanky a second time & catch any more.
It doesn't make any sense!
I can only assume that a certain amount of apap is required for it to join together & become a crystal. Could someone with chemistry knowledge plz explain this to me

 

[Havokk]

Because it dissolved in the water? Gotta be carful with the amount of water u use I think. kinda new to it to just did 2 before and they came out he'll milky might try a cofee filter next time. Allthough my other 2 were clear as when i used pandeine forte, this time unused n+.

Question? Does it have to be absolutely clear?

 

[Anon54]

Because it dissolved in the water?

If it dissolved in the water than doing a 2nd filter through a coffee filter wouldnt catch any more APAP because it would be part of the water, like the codeine is!

Question? Does it have to be absolutely clear?

I'd assume that the dissolved Codeine, & the very slightly soluble APAP would create the slight haze to the solution I always end up with (sp?).
Mine is always slightly mirky.
I hope someone gives a link to a pic of a solution u should atleast be aiming to get as clear as to be drinking a safe amount of apap

 

[Mr Blonde]

I posted this news in AusDD but I will post it here as well:

After three years of near daily use doing a CWE on codeine-APAP products using the method I posted in the very first post of this thread, I had a liver function test ordered by my psychs. Came back perfectly normal.

It's important to use a tightly woven shirt, and obviously through a shirt then coffee filters is best but I wanted to let everyone know that even with the ridiculous doses I am using, the CWE has saved my liver from damage.

 

[Anon54]

that's good news Mr Blonde. & your solutions usually come out slight mirky dont they... that's normal isn't it?
lol, that doesnt mean u can celebrate by doing twice as much codeine.
Anyways to my previous question about why the hanky only catches most the APAP & no more I made a thread in ADD if anyone is interested
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=512300
MY theory is that the the more time the APAP has to cystalize into larger particals, there will be less smaller particals to slip through the hanky & so the more APAP the hanky will capture.
This can be done by leaving solution in fridge on a very cold setting, enough to start to freeze after a few hrs, rather than the freezer which does the job in 45 mins. U also get more water in the final solution compared to the orginal amount added which means more codeine gets extracted.

 

[tdaddy123]

You know a lot of people will hate me for this... but i dont judge anyone because im no better or worse. I seen lots of people ask if u can do cwe and use the solution to IV. The answer is a straight no, from everyone, and then crap about how no one should shoot pills. That is all true but i thought I would make a little better of an answer. ..... Yes ...and no. No you cant IV solutions from codeine or hydros or other with those products in it. But Yes to oxycodone apap or percocet..which is oxycodone apap. Now Doctors IV acetomeniphen or ibuprofen at the hospital for general pain relief and swelling and blood thinning upon other things. But I have done the cwe on percocets yesterday and today. And if ur going to do this be as safe and sterile as possible. But heres the method.

1. crush 4 7.5mg percocet to a fine powder.
2. boil a cup of water for 5 min. DO NOT ADD ANYTHING YET.
3. Lets cool to near freezing usually 1/2 h-45 min.
4. add crushed pills and filter. I use a clean old dress shirt and coffee filters.
5. Filter 1-3 times.
6. WHEEL FILTER through syringe the slightly cloudy solution into a sterile bottle.
7. put as desired amount of solution into syringe. (I also like to filter here as well with a cotton ball)

8. Inject and enjoy! MAKE SURE U KNOW HOW TO DO THIS STEP.

Now u wouldnt do this with hydro or codeine cause it will do more harm than good. OR in a junkies case (like me) it will be less of a high and more of hurt. I know this is stupid and yes its dangerous and gross and down right wrong....but it def work with percocets. I feel fine and i got pretty high. It also hit me hard today for some reason even with my high tolerence. But make sure if your gonna do it. Do it as clean as possible and filter a lot.

ALSO: be smart and stick to drinking it. I will not live as long as those who enjoy there drugs insufflated or eatin. OR DRANKSTED!

EDIT: its is IMPERATIVE that u use sterilized clean equipment in all steps and a WHEEL FILTER for the fillers and binders. This is not safe no matter how clean or any way you do it. This is a high risk way of doing this and is stupid. Its to show IF you decide to do this that this is the way i did and worked and it did not harm me at the time...but probably in the future.

 

[dokomo]

You know a lot of people will hate me for this... but i dont judge anyone because im no better or worse. I seen lots of people ask if u can do cwe and use the solution to IV. The answer is a straight no, from everyone, and then crap about how no one should shoot pills. That is all true but i thought I would make a little better of an answer. ..... Yes ...and no. No you cant IV solutions from codeine or hydros or other with those products in it. But Yes to oxycodone apap or percocet..which is oxycodone apap. Now Doctors IV acetomeniphen or ibuprofen at the hospital for general pain relief and swelling and blood thinning upon other things. But I have done the cwe on percocets yesterday and today. And if ur going to do this be as safe and sterile as possible. But heres the method.

1. crush 4 7.5mg percocet to a fine powder.
2. boil a cup of water for 5 min. DO NOT ADD ANYTHING YET.
3. Lets cool to near freezing usually 1/2 h-45 min.
4. add crushed pills and filter. I use a clean old dress shirt and coffee filters.
5. Filter 1-3 times.
6. WHEEL FILTER through syringe the slightly cloudy solution into a sterile bottle.
7. put as desired amount of solution into syringe. (I also like to filter here as well with a cotton ball)

8. Inject and enjoy! MAKE SURE U KNOW HOW TO DO THIS STEP.

Now u wouldnt do this with hydro or codeine cause it will do more harm than good. OR in a junkies case (like me) it will be less of a high and more of hurt. I know this is stupid and yes its dangerous and gross and down right wrong....but it def work with percocets. I feel fine and i got pretty high. It also hit me hard today for some reason even with my high tolerence. But make sure if your gonna do it. Do it as clean as possible and filter a lot.

ALSO: be smart and stick to drinking it. I will not live as long as those who enjoy there drugs insufflated or eatin. OR DRANKSTED!

Yeah this isn't harm reduction at all. It's not just the acetaminophen but the mass of tiny binders and fillers that make this absolutely awful.

 

[tdaddy123]

dokomo- ur absolutely correct. but im saying if ur gonna do it which like me i thought it was possible even though everyone simply said no and i still tried it and it worked damn good. Also i know its not just the apap the binders and fillers as in any pill people inject, r terrible for you. IM a 100% on that one. Which is actually why i said wheel filter. You absolutely need this because of the binders and fillers, it takes out anywhere from 40-60 % of the binders (I wounder if this would be good for the filter step instead of a shirt for non injectors)?. If i inject oxycontin i use them. People also told me it was impossible to do that...its not and people do it everyday... which doesnt make it right. But IMO there is a risk taking anything a different way then its meant to be. Is this really so much worse than taking 700+ mg of codeine or hydro ... thats dangerous. Plus my disclaimer was not to do this but if ur going to like i did....try this way. So I have to disagree and say yes...this is harm reduction. ITs really not smart and very DUMB to shoot pills. But some people r gonna no matter what so i tried to hopefully save someone from going from stupid to dead.( IF they want to try this)

No harm dude either if it sounds like im a dick im not trying to be. Im trying just to explain y i posted.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I would say yes, that IV'ing something from a combination containing APAP is worse then having a large tolerance to codeine or hydrocodone.

And no one ever said it was impossible, everyone just said don't do it because it's dangerous.

 

[Anon54]

MY CWE always comes out in this colour, a pale grey. not as clear as water but there is no 'whiteness" in the water. I'm assuming this is normal?
It would helpful if someone had a pic of normal water compared to water with cwe
Would it be correct to assume that a few hundred milligrams of Codeine would change the colour slightly, and does everyone here generally come up with a pale grey silter kinda water?
I mean, just because it's soluble doesn't mean it doesnt change the colour of the water obviously
Im probably worrying to much. Mixing just s single grams of APAP into 100mL of Cold water makes it go white, not pale grey.
problem is I'm only usin 10/500 pills. so I need to be messing with ALOT of APAP. When I filter through the 2 hankys first it gets out most of the apap then, I put it through a coffee filter. till it stops dripping than put it into another.
The coffee filters always filter really fast to begin with, than come to a basic stand still when 1/3of the water is left. This is because there so no water pushing it down & the apap blockin it id asssume.
Anyone else have experience this with em?
Do most ppl pour the first filter into a second, or third when it slows down?
I'd assume the APAP cought on the first filter would slow it down, right?

They get jammed so fuckin easy, wish there was something that filters as finally as a coffee filter that u could sqeeze & not worry about breaking the thing. my last coffee filter captures just very tiny amount of apap (like a few specs if any) so Im sure Im not dosing a dangerous level of apap but I would still appreciate it if someone could post a pic just to see what. say 200-300mg of codeine in 100mL of water is suppose to look like.

 

[SackFromTheBack]

This is definitely the way to go for pills with lots of apap in them. I was very surprised at the effectiveness of this technique. Give it a shot

 

[dokomo]

dokomo- ur absolutely correct. but im saying if ur gonna do it which like me i thought it was possible even though everyone simply said no and i still tried it and it worked damn good. Also i know its not just the apap the binders and fillers as in any pill people inject, r terrible for you. IM a 100% on that one. Which is actually why i said wheel filter. You absolutely need this because of the binders and fillers, it takes out anywhere from 40-60 % of the binders (I wounder if this would be good for the filter step instead of a shirt for non injectors)?. If i inject oxycontin i use them. People also told me it was impossible to do that...its not and people do it everyday... which doesnt make it right. But IMO there is a risk taking anything a different way then its meant to be. Is this really so much worse than taking 700+ mg of codeine or hydro ... thats dangerous. Plus my disclaimer was not to do this but if ur going to like i did....try this way. So I have to disagree and say yes...this is harm reduction. ITs really not smart and very DUMB to shoot pills. But some people r gonna no matter what so i tried to hopefully save someone from going from stupid to dead.( IF they want to try this)

No harm dude either if it sounds like im a dick im not trying to be. Im trying just to explain y i posted.

I definitely understand, I think we simply have different points of view.

It seems to me that there is a limit to the usefulness of harm reduction where an activity simply becomes so dangerous and reckless that harm reduction is meaningless (an example of which is most inhalant abuse and how discussion thereof isn't allowed here.) As Mr. Blonde said, no one said it couldn't be done, just that it couldn't be done with any relative safety.

 

[Inoxia]

Does anyone know if Sorbitol is filtered out, or can it be otherwise removed?

 

[dokomo]

Does anyone know if Sorbitol is filtered out, or can it be otherwise removed?

Sorbitol is not removed by a CWE. It is freely soluble in water. There's no method I'm aware of to remove it.

 

[Gumbo76]

Amount of water

Urgent question:

Okay, so I didn't read any of this other than the basic technique. What happens if you use, like a litre of water and 24 15/500 pills? I end up with muck at the bottom, which I filter off and end up with an almost clear solution. But because I am using so much water, does that mean the APAP got through?

Am I a goner?

 

[Assphace]

But because I am using so much water, does that mean the APAP got through?

Solubility in Room Temperature:

APAP: Roughly 1 gram per 100ml at room temperature; around 0.1-0.5 grams per 100ml if the temperature is lowered to around 22C.

a L is what, 1000mL? So you'd get about 10 grams of apap.

on a side note, you seriously gonna chug a liter of that shit? brave man

 

[dokomo]

Urgent question:

Okay, so I didn't read any of this other than the basic technique. What happens if you use, like a litre of water and 24 15/500 pills? I end up with muck at the bottom, which I filter off and end up with an almost clear solution. But because I am using so much water, does that mean the APAP got through?

Am I a goner?

Yea man, doing that makes the entire process moot, that much water could hold a fatal amount of acetaminophen. I use 100mL total MAX for that many tabs normally.

Sorry man, you need to throw it out.