Harm Reduction New! - Cold Water Extraction Mega Thread & FAQ

[jblz]

Personally, I put the whole concern through the filter. Just a couple of drops of water sloshed round the jug will loosen it enough to pour it through the filter.
If you've done the crush/dissolve stage properly, then yes, chances are that the sludge is almost all APAP.. ..but it doesn't hurt to filter it anyway. Every drop counts. And if you didn't get much of an effect, then i'd suggest that maybe you lost codeine during the process. ....probably the most important part of the whole cwe process is to make sure your filters have been properly soaked before hand. This way the brew will flow though it, instead of being absorbed into the filter.

I'm a fucktard.

I've read through this thread tons of times in the past but wasn't in the best state when doing it. Mehh, shall try again soon. Toothache like a bitch!

 

[jblz]

I'm a fucktard.

I've read through this thread tons of times in the past but wasn't in the best state when doing it. Mehh, shall try again soon. Toothache like a bitch!

How much and how safe is valium to take with ~130mg codeine?

And how unsafe is it to drink half a bottle of wine with it?

EDIT: Just to add, got a very low benzo tolerance at the moment - would say, 50/60mg of valium over the course of the evening be fine?

 

[Moral Decay]

How much and how safe is valium to take with ~130mg codeine?

And how unsafe is it to drink half a bottle of wine with it?

EDIT: Just to add, got a very low benzo tolerance at the moment - would say, 50/60mg of valium over the course of the evening be fine?

If you have a low benzo tolerance that is way to much to combine with codeine AND wine. In the interest of harm reduction I would have to say anything over a therapeutic dose (5-10mg) should not be taken with codeine or wine, not to mention this being added with both. I would stick to a combo of 2 out of those 3 but don't mix all three unless you wanna have problems. The three of these might be OK for you, but again in the interest of Harm Reduction; this should not be done.

 

[jblz]

If you have a low benzo tolerance that is way to much to combine with codeine AND wine. In the interest of harm reduction I would have to say anything over a therapeutic dose (5-10mg) should not be taken with codeine or wine, not to mention this being added with both. I would stick to a combo of 2 out of those 3 but don't mix all three unless you wanna have problems. The three of these might be OK for you, but again in the interest of Harm Reduction; this should not be done.

Stuck to just the 130mg codeine and around 80/90mg valium, was asleep pretty quick last night ;P

Because of the large HL of diaz is it OK for me to drink alcohol today?

 

[Moral Decay]

Stuck to just the 130mg codeine and around 80/90mg valium, was asleep pretty quick last night ;P

Because of the large HL of diaz is it OK for me to drink alcohol today?

Shouldn't be a problem , just start slow because you will probably get drunk a lot easier than when you don't have a high dose of Valium the night before. Drinking too much on Valium or while still under the influence of Valium is not fun. I've done it on purpose once and on accident once and both times I was sicker than I think I have ever been.

 

[Havokk]

Hey sorry if it has already been mentioned. but I'm pretty out of it since I just did a CWE on 6x 500 apap/30mg codiene + 1 temaz and can't be bother reading 20 pages ^.^

2 questions. Is there a certain time your ment to wait or stir after adding the pills to the cold water for the codeine to extract?
2nd: question someone mentioned taking antihistamine with there codeine, is this to increase the effects of the codeine or to just help with nausea. I have some phenergan in the cupboard and am intrigued.

 

[Jabberwocky]

you really needn't cwe that amount of pills as you aren't over the 4g limit per day. you'll be sacrificing a small amount of your codeine as well due to loss.

you can stir the pills immediately entering the water. as long as they're fully dissolved and have had time to sit everything will be fine.

phenergen is taken to increase sedation as well as control itching and nausea.

i think it in your interest to read through the initial post if you intend on making this a regular thing.

 

[monstanoodle]

1st Q: Not really, I just add the crushed pills to my cold water, swirl it around so it's properly dispersed, go and wet my Coffee filters, come back and give it one last swirl and then pour the solution into the filters

2nd Q: There's debate as to whether there's any actual potentiation of metabolism, but the main reason people take it is to add extra sedation and take away the itches & nausea (Promethazine [Phenergan] being rather good for nausea).

Some Antihistamines can inhibit certain enzymes responsible for converting Codeine into Morphine (but C6G is now thought to play a larger role in Codeine's high) but, just to be "safe", take the Antihistamine after you've taken yer Codeine solution and it's just starting to take effect

---- Edit ----

Darn you Leftwing for beating me to it!

 

[Havokk]

^ cheers for the reply leftwing and monstanoodle. Will be keeping the advice in mind for next time.

Was just a test trail as it was my first try and seemed to work, next time I will be doing it with a whole packet so let's hope I've got the hang of it and will probably pop a antihistamine to see what the fuss is.

Edit: although doesn't quite feel like 180mg high guess you've got to give it few try's before you master it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

^as i said theres real no necessity in performig an extracting with that total amount of apap. anything over 4g on a regular basis then yes, that warrants cwe'ing.

it's mostly true that extended use of apap at recommended doses isnt going to cause any long term problems. but a problem thats been associated with it is increased ALT, a liver enzyme, which is reversable after short term.

this is a copy paste from a quote i have in the aus forum, though can't site the source. a google should bring it up easy enough

Even though Tylenol most likely does not cause serious liver damage in recommended doses, it can cause elevations of liver enzymes in the blood suggesting injury to the liver. In a study of 145 healthy subjects who were randomized to receive placebo or 4 grams of Tylenol daily for two weeks, subjects in the placebo group experienced no elevations of ALT, a liver enzyme, but 33%-44% of the subjects in the Tylenol group had ALT elevations greater than three times the upper limits of normal. The highest ALT elevation was greater than 500 which is approximately 10 times the upper limit of normal. All enzyme elevations returned to normal after stopping Tylenol. Thus, recommended doses of Tylenol given to healthy subjects for two weeks can cause mild to moderate reversible liver injury

Darn you Leftwing for beating me to it!

nyuck nyuck nyuck quick draw leftwing!

 

[Inoxia]

2nd: question someone mentioned taking antihistamine with there codeine, is this to increase the effects of the codeine or to just help with nausea. I have some phenergan in the cupboard and am intrigued.

Antihistamines help with the itching and nausea which some people experience, and some may also potentiate codeine. I don't know if promethazine potentiates codeine, but I believe it contributes to CNS depression.

you really needn't cwe that amount of pills as you aren't over the 4g limit per day. you'll be sacrificing a small amount of your codeine as well due to loss.

Regardless you should remember to dissolve them for maximum effect.

Edit: although doesn't quite feel like 180mg high guess you've got to give it few try's before you master it.

Consider yourself lucky, I barely feel anything at 300mg.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Regardless you should remember to dissolve them for maximum effect.

comes down to personal preference. they're instant release tablets so not going to make much of a noticeable difference, quite negligible actually.

 

[Inoxia]

comes down to personal preference. they're instant release tablets so not going to make much of a noticeable difference, quite negligible actually.

Should still metabolise faster though, shouldn't it? I experienced much greater effects from dissolved "instant release" tablets as opposed to just swallowing them.

 

[Jabberwocky]

well, yes they're going to take effect quicker. my vocabulary is failing me at the moment and can't get out what i want to say dammit as to why they take effect quicker the larger surface area covered i think is what i'm wanting to say.

the overall effects aren't going to be that different.

 

[Inoxia]

well, yes they're going to take effect quicker. my vocabulary is failing me at the moment and can't get out what i want to say dammit as to why they take effect quicker the larger surface area covered i think is what i'm wanting to say.

the overall effects aren't going to be that different.

Absorption?
I seem to be a poor metaboliser but frankly the faster it hits me the more effect I experience. 600mg with 20mg diazepam after a light meal did next to nothing to me.

 

[Jabberwocky]

yes thats it, cheers. the larger the surface area the quicker the absorption rate is going to be.

i get near no effects even after light meals and then dosing codeine. seems to be pretty common.

 

[Anon54]

Sorry is this has already been answered before but I was wondering if

Question 1, Ibuprofen or APAP is easier to do CWE with???

Ibuprofens solubility is less than 1mg/mL according to rxlist
APAPs solubiliuty is 14mg/mL according to wikipedia

So in theory if ya buying OTC products wouldnt it be faster AND safer to use products with Ibuprofen.

I've always used APAP so I don't know, after this new regulation in australia u can't buy large packets anyways. So it's either than 24 chemists' Own (APAP+Codeine) or the 24N+(Ibu+Codeine)

Does the solution come out clearer with Ibuprofen?

Question 2, Is it nesassary to continue re-stiring the solution even though u already stired it once before putting it in the freezer?

After crushing, dissolving, & stirring the tablets, should the codeine remaine dissolved equally through-out the water or should it be taken out the freezer and re-stired a few times periodically?

 

[Inoxia]

Question 1, Ibuprofen or APAP is easier to do CWE with???

It's much easier with ibuprofen. You don't really need to cool it either (I'm still awaiting an answer as to whether this makes any difference).
Cooling it does seem to remove more of the ibuprofen as opposed to simply filtering at room temperature, but the majority of it will be filtered regardless. As ibuprofen is safer than APAP, I don't think the difference really matters.

Question 2, Is it nesassary to continue re-stiring the solution even though u already stired it once before putting it in the freezer?

After crushing, dissolving, & stirring the tablets, should the codeine remaine dissolved equally through-out the water or should it be taken out the freezer and re-stired a few times periodically?

Matter of opinion, really. You can always just place the solution in a bath of ice so you can stir it while cooling.
If you're using Nurofen Plus be sure to crush them well before placing in water, they're very insoluble.

 

[Anon54]

thx Inoxia.
On another note, sometimes I get a mild cramp kind of feeling to the right side of my stomach/liver.
I don't know which orgran this is, if it's kidneys, or the so called "GI tract" but this feeling seems more apparent a few days after using codeine for a while. It's only ever on the right side of my body, under the rib cage. Wondering if anyone else gets "digestic system" problems after Codeine use. I never get constipated or anything but do get a mild cramp sometimes like I said.
Is this some kind of Codeine w/d which I'm OK with or do u think this could be because of use regular use of the slightly soluble APAP every day CWE. (Somtimes I use several days in a row.) I suppose u could say I've used alot of APAP over my life just as regular Panadeine Forte. But always used as directed. So I'm assuming it's just the Codeine because I've never taken more apap than what has been written on the packet too.

I will switch to Ibuprofen if APAP is causing these problems. I've also read through a few of the pages & there is a few ppl saying they get more cloudy finishes from using Ibuprofen though.
I know that Ibuprofen is less soluble though, but maybe it has smaller particals or something which get thorugh. I dont understand chemistry all that much so someone might have to tell me more experiences
Basically could someone confirm that the end result is CLEARER from a Ibu extraction compared to APAP
btw a good way to compare how much opiate u got in ya final sulution is to compare the % of water u end up with to the % u originally usd & aply that % to the opiate dose.

 

[Anon54]

anyways, I just bought a 40 bottle of Chemists' Own (Im in Aus & they didnt ask for ID btw)
I'm going to pour the water from above the sludge through one filter into a glass. I'm than going to add more water to the sludge level, stir & put through a coffee filter into another glass & compare to see if both filtrations come up with water as clear as each other. If the coffee filter works corrctly both should look exactly the same. (I'll use a total of 150mL)
For anyone interested the extraction on the sludge layer came out as clear as the flitration of the water above the sludge layer. so i guess the coffee filters work. water almost completely crystal clear

BTW, Does anyone have a link showing the solubility of APAP at colder temperatures than 20 degrees celcius (Obviously be alot lower). But interesting to know exactly how soluble it actually is at around 10 degrees.