Neo-doves Part II

[koggi]

so, has there been charges brought against anyone for possesing/importing any of these neo products?

 

[Doooofus]

However in this particular instance (i.e Neo organics analysis on BL) I do not believe any harm has been actually minimised by the inquiry that was made into them and instead the information born out of this site has been used by LE to criminalize otherwise harmless users.

I've gotta disagree with you there... the BL report has convinced me to stop taking this range of products permanently, and I have passed this information onto countless others. The people that are getting busted are in all likelihood buying in large quantities and selling for their own profit... perhaps they might be harmless in the scheme of just selling to friends, but if these products turn out to have horrendous effects on the human body (not entirely out of the question from what p_d has reported), then in the long run it is probably not the worst outcome for these products to be targeted. Trust me, I recognise harm minimisation to include minimising the harm the law can exert - I've been there... but with a new range of products such as these it is important to look at the bigger picture.. we simply don't know what's in store...

 

[phase_dancer]

rogan and Doooofus disagreed with what you said regarding the influence the report has had on users, and from I'm being told, I tend to side with them. While I've heard of a few people actually being attracted to the products because of what was in the analysis report, I have also been told by several users that they have since decided to avoid them, with side effects (with prolonged use in particular) and legality issues being the most common reasons. Still, it's impossible to say whether any of our experiences represents the norm since other factors also play a big part e.g. local availability, peer pressure, quality/price of illicits etc.


[EDIT: Removed parts which have gone to PM. hoptis]

 

[Doooofus]

Still, it's impossible to say whether any of our experiences represents the norm since other factors also play a big part e.g. local availability, peer pressure, quality/price of illicits etc.

I know that this was a big factor driving a lot of people I know to use this range. Knowing that you would get high with predictable effects each time for about half the price of an unpredictable ecstasy pill was very tempting.

 

[koggi]

. From the survey and user reports, it's also indicated there may be ongoing side effects with prolonged use - I have received several such reports, and I still get them.

In the name of HR, could you let us know about these ongoing side effects that have and are still being reported to you?. I took part in the survey and have read the results post.(thanks 4 going to the trouble). Its been a while and Im interested in the feedback your getting now. thanks

 

[phase_dancer]

In addition to the BL survey, reports via personal communications have mentioned anxiety, heart related probs, and ongoing sleeping problems, which has also been mentioned in connection with the new range (sleeping difficulties ~ a week following). I've also had emails from a guy concerned about his liver after taking SCs regularly for several months then abstaining for over a month (he could 'feel' his liver, and it was painful when he lay on his stomach). I've tried to follow up on this one, but have had no recent update.

The cardio related concerns (there's been a few mentioning similar things) described a feeling of pressure on the chest and/or rapid heart rate/ high BP, most often said to occur several hours following SCs (when main effects had worn off). One person described bouts of anxiety which accompanied the HR increase. My only experience with the products (1 x SC) resulted in a similar situation. After sleeping well, I awoke some 8 hours later with my chest pounding and high BP which took more than a hour to subside. I must admit, this was so concerning I started to panic a bit, so there was possibly some anxiety in there too. I had consumed a moderate amount of alcohol with the SC, but certainly not anything over the top.

Ongoing anxiety has also been mentioned. It's possible - at least in one situation - this may be related to the consumption of other drugs. Another guy (~50yrs) swore that two neos triggered something that he was still feeling several weeks later. He explained this was like nothing he'd experienced before, and that he normally never suffers any anxiety from taking illicits.

A girl reported dizziness and vertigo occurring between using (weekly user). Another lady, in her 40s, and who used these products every 2-3 days (SCs and NDs) for a while, said she got bouts of dizziness on her abstinent days. However, at the time, she wasn't willing to say the Neos were definitely to blame. Interestingly, this lady said she could not discern between the effects of NDs and SCs.

There's been a few other comments, one reporting mood swings lasting weeks, one mentioning depression and another reporting a prolonged comedown and atypical aggression. However, with the brief communications I had with each of these people, it's difficult to say whether or not there could be other things at play. Another girl (who suffers terribly from migraines) said a neo triggered a nasty headache.

While none of this demonstrates beyond doubt that these substances are highly dangerous, there's to date, nothing published in peer reviewed journals that demonstrates the safety of the ingredients in these products, nothing whatsoever.

The thing is, while some people have been using these products for many months, we still don't know what the long term effects might be. We know there's been problems associated with Hagigat and Methcathinone - metabolites of ingredients in NDs and SCs - so, with the mixtures of cathinones present (in the earlier batch at least) there should be a cautious approach, at least until some research is forthcoming on the pharmacology and metabolism of phthalimidopropriophenone and 4-methyl-methcathinone.

It may turn out these products will be considered less harmful than meth, MDMA or coke, but at this stage we don't know that and we can only go by user reports. And those tend to indicate there are health concerns, particularly with those predisposed or who may be on prescribed drugs which turn out to be contraindicated.

 

[3 to the 3]

Anxiety, mild panic attacks, increased HR, dark thoughts/fear, ongoing insomnia, sore muscles and joints, and increased benzo use to try and sleep/relax.

I have felt all of these side effects in differing intensities/combinations from both ranges. However, I believe the new range is much worse for heart rate and insomnia.

I ended up giving away 10+ caps of the old range after experimenting a little, and now have decided to give away the rest of the new range I have left.

When I weighed it up,I realised it's not worth it. I would rather take a pill every now and then and deal with the following week. It seems more predictable.

5HTP doesn't seem to help all that much with these products either.

 

[tadfish]

same

Anxiety, mild panic attacks, increased HR, dark thoughts/fear, ongoing insomnia, sore muscles and joints, and increased benzo use to try and sleep/relax.

I have felt all of these side effects in differing intensities/combinations from both ranges. However, I believe the new range is much worse for heart rate and insomnia.

I ended up giving away 10+ caps of the old range after experimenting a little, and now have decided to give away the rest of the new range I have left.

When I weighed it up,I realised it's not worth it. I would rather take a pill every now and then and deal with the following week. It seems more predictable.

5HTP doesn't seem to help all that much with these products either.

i feel the same
new ones more body load.
i got my heart rate up to 255 increasing with high BP is that bad
at least SC2 still there and has not changed, but smells cleaner now.
they seem in short term not that bad but long term who knows,???????/.....heart valves and brain damage etc.

 

[rogan]

quote from latest email - "It is the same as the ND2 but with much more speed in it."

Can just imagine there next special offer "orders over XXXX come with a free gram of heroin".

[Edit- No prices. lil angel15]

 

[IWillHostIt]

^ I got that email to.

The original neoorganics range is back everyone. That being Neo dove, Sub Coca and Spirit.

 

[gumby11]

Just outa curiosity how did the original NDs compare to the ND2s?

 

[retrogradeamnesia]

hahaha love it...yes lets stop taking them now we know whats in them
priceless

 

[Happy2c-ib]

In case people didn't know allready, the 1st generation neo products are apparently being sold again. I wont post a link here as its probably against forum rules but they can be found at a couple of popular 'legal highs' sites.

Also, Does anyone know what the legality of importing mephedrone is? I ask because sites who sell it specify which countries they will ship too and Australia is always mentioned as one that they will ship too. I would have assumed that it would be covered by anolouge laws but maybe they know of loopholes?... any ideas?

 

[bustabraincell]

As in all cases "importer beware' to paraphrase a common saying....If you recieve a package in the mail, in Australia, the feds have little or no jurisdiction in the country of origin, however they will probably be more than a bit interested in you.,...

 

[madmick19]

you'll probably find that phrase "check you local regulations" on products that are known to be of differing legal status cover the seller from having to refund your money if it does not get through.

i know that this has happened to someone i know very well a few times.

customs returned the package to the company so they kept the product and the money a few times..... just cause they say its legal doesn't meant that it is especially with the analogue laws

 

[Happy2c-ib]

Hey the new '1st generation' Neo-doves are not sounding to be as good as the originals, also someone posted a pic of the contents of the SC's which look a lot more sandy/grainy compared to the original SC's... although maybe the change is more to do with the colour than the texture as i seem to remember it as being pretty fluffy/airy.. anyway see if the pic works:

Sorry if this is old news to most people, just that the reports i have heard have stopped me from wanting to order any..

 

[phase_dancer]

This might have been addressed already, but do they smell the same as the pre Jan 2008 SCs ?

 

[Chesai]

Just outa curiosity how did the original NDs compare to the ND2s?

Shyt..... absolute shyt... very speedy, tend to give you the shakes and not euphoric feelings.... shyt.... imo.

 

[Mr TIMO]

Hey the new '1st generation' Neo-doves are not sounding to be as good as the originals, also someone posted a pic of the contents of the SC's which look a lot more sandy/grainy compared to the original SC's... although maybe the change is more to do with the colour than the texture as i seem to remember it as being pretty fluffy/airy.. anyway see if the pic works:

Sorry if this is old news to most people, just that the reports i have heard have stopped me from wanting to order any..

hmmm that seems very strange indeed. i prefer it insulfated and being even more dirty will probably turn me away from doing that...
from what i know, the only reason they stopped selling was because they couldn't make it in the country they use to make it in, so i assume they have now changed place of manufacture. I hope they have no decreased the quality. not that the original quality was anything measurable, but sandy/dirty stuff is no appealing is it

This might have been addressed already, but do they smell the same as the pre Jan 2008 SCs ?

i will let you know soon if i speak to a mate

 

[peaked]

Maybe I'm just out of the loop in regards to legal high, but the neo******* site which AFAIK are the original manufacturers of the neo range, make no mention of the originals being made available again. Unless things are being kept quiet, it makes me suspect that someone else has either bought lots of the originals and kept them until this point in time, or they are making their own product and badging it as neo doves, when in actually might be something different.

There also seems to be a new product, "Lift", available now. I don't think anyones mentioned that yet?