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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Neo-doves Part II

alcohol seems to dehydrate you much more on these but the combination can be good in small doses.. Not like getting shit faced x 50.

They may or may not work on anti depressants and they may or may not be dangerous. From the results it looks the stimulating ones will still work but its still a risk your taking.
 
there has been no research showing mixing these products with anti-depressants is safe. it is NOT recomended. These are the types of things that the 'supplier' should have listed. All cathininone/cathine like products have maoi-a properties and who knows what the result would be when mixed with a potent antidep like effexor. alchohol howerver seems to be fine.
 
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Wouldn't the maoi-a properties only affect maoi-type depressants? Effexor is an SNRI, its not the type of medication that you need to be careful drinking red wine and eating cheese, like with the older style MAOIs.
 
What about ND2's?
Has anyone tried them?
All this still does explain the smell.??
Is it some sort of cooking left over?
 
Wouldn't the maoi-a properties only affect maoi-type depressants?
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No. Any drug that affects serotonin (5HT) levels, can, when taken with a maoi, result in potentiation or worse. If 5HT levels increase substantially because of the combo, serotonin syndrome can result. This is particularly applicable to phenethylamines and related compounds.

I would not advise taking any of these compounds with antidepressants without the pharmacological profile of each first being established then evaluated against each type of medication.
 
This was posted on another forum:

Just got an email from doron, apprently he can only make the new pills until 31 days.
He says they have got too popular and contain a few analogues. However he says the meth analogue bit ain't true.
What a cu&* that is.

But good news, hes bringing out a whole new range. Thank fu&*!

And I love surpises!!! Lets hope they will be as good or better than the current ones.
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This is the public response from Neorganics.

Dear Neorganics Customer.

The fact that our range of products became very popular made some authorities and some private organizations to put a research into it. And lately They made a lot of progress in discovering what’s in them.
This is something that we expected because it happened to us 3 times before with other products that we had to stop selling cause they were banned due to their popularity.
With the current range we work for 3 years.

So it seems that in the near future all our line of products will be banned first in Israel and after a few months worldwide.
It’s not going to happen tomorrow. Cause the law says that in order to ban a substance they have to first put it on a "published notification list" for at least 31 days and only than it will be banned. So people could make them selves ready for it.

They didn’t publish it yet so it means that we have more than 31 days to keep selling this range.
We really don’t know how much time it’s going to take we will give a 1 month notification when the act will be published. Meaning we will notify with another email to say that we stop selling this range with in 1 month.

At the time that this range will be banned we will release a new range of products that we think are in much higher quality. I hope that you will like them as much as you liked this range.

p.s. about the reports published in Bluelight this is what we have to say:
Some of the substances mentioned are true. But most of them are not true.
There is no meth related or any meth analogue in our products.
Our products are safe to use and never caused anyone no harm.


Yours truly
Doron
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Why doesn't Doron just f'en say what he thinks is actually in them NOW if he's current range of products are going to be banned soon.

/me thinks it's because all the substances mentioned on the bluelight report ARE true and he doesnt want he's customers to associate his products with meth. As it gives he's products a unhealthy/evil image to those customers that don't do illegal drugs.

He shits me.
 
Dorans Email

I was interested (and a little surprised and amused) to get Dorans email. It seems as though it's still 'legal' (?) in Oz since customs has passed a friends through this morning after a few days or so of waiting around (joys of international courier tracking, you can watch it all happen) - but how long will they continue to pass through?

Is there anyone around here that monitors "the site that announces changes to import acts etc?" How does one find out what's changed in legislation so they could find out as it happens rather than after the fact?

I think it's important to know the ramifications of what you're importing (well, yeh, 'and' consuming), but then - that assumes you actually 'know' whats in them... double edged sword I guess? :!

Dunno if I trust Dorans word for it regarding the testing etc done and the fact that he thinks it's wrong - didn't you guys say they change (in appearance, smell and taste) every so often?... He's got a vested interest after all. And nice for him to suggest stocking up in the next 31 days.... LOL. That'll take care of some of his stockpile eh? Given that express post (seems) to take 2 weeks, it could very well be prohibited from the time you order to the time it shows up at customs.

What happens when they become prohibited? Will the replacement ones get tested too? Seems like it was a long and hard journey to test the ND's...

I'll stop typing now... seems this brings up more questions the more I think about it! :\
 
When faced with two sides of an argument, it sometimes serves to ask the ancient Latin question, "Qui bono?" ("who gains?"). Alexander Shulgin himself asked the same question in either TIHKAL or PIHKAL, with regards to the war on drugs...

So- Doron thinks our analysis is wrong. Let's assume that this philanthropist, providing new substances (proven to be safe in humans,) to the world, in a not-for-profit fashion, is correct. It begs the question- has there been an error somewhere?

We're pretty sure that the substances that we have been provided with are the real thing. It's possible that some rogue element has provided us with substituted products, but one would assume that any substitution would have been with products easier to obtain, or indeed even described in the literature. Some of the best analytical chemists in the country have looked over our data, and are in agreement, so we are very certain of our science. So- where do we stand to gain from such a time-consuming and monumental fraud?

Let's on the other hand assume that our results are correct. What does Doron stand to gain from saying it isn't so? Well, he has apparently maintained the legality of these products from the start, and it appears has managed to persuade some BLer's that he's right. He is going to look foolish if it turns out that they are of questionable legality and safety. He is marketing a commodity, and it is important that the consumers of that commodity trust him. He stands to lose money and clients if he loses his argument. We, on the other hand, stand to lose our academic credibility if we lose ours.

I know what our results show- I'm just bemused by the ongoing, Bart Simpson-like denials of those like Doron. Let's be grown-ups here- stop 'yer girly whinging, 'fess up, and move on to the next lot.
 
^^ Initially I was going to try to reply to the post above, in context but I'd just be nodding and trying to post in betwixt quotes - badly, and hapharzardly more than likely...

I assume and trust the results of the tests are correct regarding 'what you tested'. That said, who's to say he doesn't sub with different stuff as per availablility of supply? Nobody really, since its not regulated.

So really, there goes the validity of the study? - cos the product more than likely, changes. Sucks really. As HR goes - if you're trying to take care of what you may ingest its good to know it was the same this time as it was last time and vice verca. (I know, shit spelling all round....) So that batch that was tested, I have full faith in. After and before, who knows?

I assume / trust the tests are correct and valid. I assume Doran is freaking out cos he's had a spotlight shone on him and now has to do damage control.

I agree - lets move on to the next lot. But in the interests of HR, we're back in the same place really.... no knowledge of chemicals, no knowledge of the interactions and no ability to notify anyone (of medical significance) if it all turns shit faced - since we can't be sure what was in it.

Which brings us right back to... now that its about to become 'illegal' and replaced by handy dandy new ones, what happens when/if it goes pear shaped??? (I know, there's probably no answer to that)

I appreciated the analysis done because it shed light on it. It just seems a shame (and goes hand in hand with analysis) that once you know, it's probaby going to correlate with a slap on the head and a kick up the ass, withdrawal of the product and a new round of 'who knows what...'
 
i want to thank everybody in the name of harm reduction and education of the public.
Thank you guys for doing such a great job and making such a huge effort. Thank you so much for these information. You guys are truly unbelievable. Honestly, if there would be a donation-box i would stick 20$ in it, just to show a little bit of appreciation.

It is absolutely incredible what this community has accomplished. This should set an example for every other community out there.

Btw: Is there any way to donate some money to support you guys with all the financial costs you put in that "project"? If there was i would totally start to sell some cookies in the name of bluelight at my school and educate people with the purchase of every cookie =D, Is there anything i can do so show this community my appreciation? You have no idea how fucking unbelievable this is =D
 
You can donate to Ravesafe QLD or Enlighten.org.au im pretty sure.
buying a testing kit is donating.
 
Splatt said:
You can donate to Ravesafe QLD or Enlighten.org.au im pretty sure.
buying a testing kit is donating.
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just bought one =D
i needed an ecstasy testing kit anyway, so i bought the complete one. They are always good to have around to screen all kinds of pills for stuff. And, of course, i will test not only my pills, but my friends pills as well, as they have a different source.

Lets spread the word that bluelight is awesome, and that screening-kits are well worth the money :)

Cheers,
Rave23
 
Splatt said:
You can donate to Ravesafe QLD or Enlighten.org.au im pretty sure.
buying a testing kit is donating.
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Or the 'Keep Me Out Of Centrelink Foundation......' I'm all for that. =D Email me and I'll fork you over with my bank details and the number of my rent payments.. ;) (Yeh, KMOOCF.... very catchy.... :D )

Honestly though, good / shit hot job on the ND's analysis. That was remarkable - the work you guys put in. Bloody shame that now it's done, it's all going to be 'un' done by throwing it back into the deep dark recess of 'importing'. Pisses me off that there was so much work done and its amounted to not much other than 'here's the chems and there they go'........but maybe that's just me...... Stinkin Ranga. (You know who you are) :p
 
From an outside very cynical perspective it could seem like an email such as that may be used to cast doubt on such analytical results, maybe drum up some quick last ditch business and buy some time before dissapearing altogether.
 
heh all this talk of moving on and world wide bans, peeps seem to forget that these substances are legal in many places and will stay that way for months/years, so perhaps the people behind this study can perhaps state/discuss where they want to go from here?? what pharmacology research or toxicology trial as the next step? or is this it?
 
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Chesai said:
^^
But in the interests of HR, we're back in the same place really.... no knowledge of chemicals, no knowledge of the interactions and no ability to notify anyone

It's probaby going to correlate with a slap on the head and a kick up the ass, withdrawal of the product and a new round of 'who knows what...'
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nice post... in regards to hr moving in circles i think we will find this will slowly change in aus with engagemnt from all parties in the future.. (hopefully)

but your post has got me thinking about the implications of the studies architects informing the authorities about the results just because it was illegal in *their state. would the people behind the study perhaps state/discuss which particular goverment body was notified and what was their reaction?
i understand this might be confidential in some sort of proffesional elitist boys club fashion but some more transparency and disclosure from the architects of the report as to the future consequences and benefits would be great imho... a
 
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