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Lysergamides "Needlepoint" LSD and other bollocks

So how do you explain why there are different crystal that the same vendor has?

I dont know if its permited to give prices here.
But the same source has offered att least 3 different quality in crystal form (1g or more)
And the price difference is about 20% from the cheapest to the most expensive.

If they wanted they could just sell everything as needlepoint and make alot more money.
Because those online dealers are very bad at selling their drugs and marketing their LSD? Or they believe hippie lore that certain shapes, or types of crystals effect the acid trip? Or maybe they sell it for people who have the mentality of, "Oh my God dude, needlepoint acid?! No way would I ever take it! One hit of THAT stuff made my sister's college roommate's cousin freak out, have a bad trip, and now he is committed to a state mental hospital and believes he is a glass of Orange juice being served at the Yellow party in Smithtown Long Island, and he is classified insane! Give me fluff or silver instead brah those are super mellow and give good trips like strawberry and orange mescaline do, awwh yeah!"?

I am from before the time of the internet, and dark net, etc. when the internet was very new some people decades ago would trade blotter paper with designs for cassette tapes, and later CDs of certain American live bands, but this was not hypothetically necessary at all as there was so much high dosed LSD people were giving it away for free. I do not use any drugs now except for caffeine and have not for decades, and I no longer and never have hypothetically known anyone in the underground or underworld syndicate game from back then or today in 2022.
 
Because those online dealers are very bad at selling their drugs and marketing their LSD? Or they believe hippie lore that certain shapes, or types of crystals effect the acid trip? Or maybe they sell it for people who have the mentality of, "Oh my God dude, needlepoint acid?! No way would I ever take it! One hit of THAT stuff made my sister's college roommate's cousin freak out, have a bad trip, and now he is committed to a state mental hospital and believes he is a glass of Orange juice being served at the Yellow party in Smithtown Long Island, and he is classified insane! Give me fluff or silver instead brah those are super mellow and give good trips like strawberry and orange mescaline do, awwh yeah!"?

I am from before the time of the internet, and dark net, etc. when the internet was very new some people decades ago would trade blotter paper with designs for cassette tapes, and later CDs of certain American live bands, but this was not hypothetically necessary at all as there was so much high dosed LSD people were giving it away for free. I do not use any drugs now except for caffeine and have not for decades, and I no longer and never have hypothetically known anyone in the underground or underworld syndicate game from back then or today in 2022.
Im not talking about random online sources though.
Im talking about real live people who have been making and supplying lsd for decades.
Not random drugpushers who have bought some sheets from who know where.

However i do agree that most lsd is mislabeled in many ways.
Including dosage and origin, so most people have no idea what they have.
Esp since testing it for purity is alot harder then most other drugs.
 
Because those online dealers are very bad at selling their drugs and marketing their LSD? Or they believe hippie lore that certain shapes, or types of crystals effect the acid trip? Or maybe they sell it for people who have the mentality of, "Oh my God dude, needlepoint acid?! No way would I ever take it! One hit of THAT stuff made my sister's college roommate's cousin freak out, have a bad trip, and now he is committed to a state mental hospital and believes he is a glass of Orange juice being served at the Yellow party in Smithtown Long Island, and he is classified insane! Give me fluff or silver instead brah those are super mellow and give good trips like strawberry and orange mescaline do, awwh yeah!"?

I am from before the time of the internet, and dark net, etc. when the internet was very new some people decades ago would trade blotter paper with designs for cassette tapes, and later CDs of certain American live bands, but this was not hypothetically necessary at all as there was so much high dosed LSD people were giving it away for free. I do not use any drugs now except for caffeine and have not for decades, and I no longer and never have hypothetically known anyone in the underground or underworld syndicate game from back then or today in 2022.

I felt sure this opinion of yours was correct until a couple of years ago when I found concrete evidence that, at least in some drugs, crystal polymorphism has a profound effect on the drug's effect. There is an HIV medication where only one polymorph works, the others do not work against HIV. It makes sense when I think about it that polymorphism would have no effect on a drug's effect; after all, once it is absorbed, it is individual molecules floating in your plasma. But it appears that in at least one case, it does in fact have a substantial effect on the action of the drug. Clearly there is something in one molecule that is different from another molecule, even the same compound, that causes two different molecules to form differently shaped crystals. We simply do not yet understand that aspect of chemistry.

We know less than we think we do. The molecular structure to pharmacology relationship is more complicated than we think, I believe.
 
I felt sure this opinion of yours was correct until a couple of years ago when I found concrete evidence that, at least in some drugs, crystal polymorphism has a profound effect on the drug's effect. There is an HIV medication where only one polymorph works, the others do not work against HIV. It makes sense when I think about it that polymorphism would have no effect on a drug's effect; after all, once it is absorbed, it is individual molecules floating in your plasma. But it appears that in at least one case, it does in fact have a substantial effect on the action of the drug. Clearly there is something in one molecule that is different from another molecule, even the same compound, that causes two different molecules to form differently shaped crystals. We simply do not yet understand that aspect of chemistry.

We know less than we think we do. The molecular structure to pharmacology relationship is more complicated than we think, I believe.
HIV meds do not all work the same or keep working for everyone that is HIV+ or who has AIDS and takes them daily. They can stop working suddenly, from unsafe sex and drug resistant HIV strains, because of other HIV drugs, genetics, from the person taking them hopefully daily for decades or years, and for other reasons. A lot of the meds get re-released, or marketed under new names.

I do not have HIV or AIDS. A good friend does and he has been on all of the meds. Prep and u=u are total disasters, and will just spread and create more drug resistant strains of HIV. Drug companies are pushing prep as they want people who have unsafe sex and take prep to get used to taking HIV meds daily for when they eventually become HIV+.

My friend has lived so long with HIV as he takes meds daily, and never misses a day despite the horrible short and long term side effects, and he sees doctors and has blood tests done. He told me how despite taking meds daily, how with one viral level test he was shown as undetectable and he was given another test which showed him as being detectable/transmissive.
 
hello all new to BLueLight bc I'm hoping to discuss this in depth like you all, been doing it since '94 and have recently learned to shop online but want to be able to cross reference vendors etc with other forum users..Reddit not being so friendly. NOT looking for sourcing, just to be able to ask about certain vendors. Is that cool here or no?
 
HIV meds do not all work the same or keep working for everyone that is HIV+ or who has AIDS and takes them daily. They can stop working suddenly, from unsafe sex and drug resistant HIV strains, because of other HIV drugs, genetics, from the person taking them hopefully daily for decades or years, and for other reasons. A lot of the meds get re-released, or marketed under new names.

I do not have HIV or AIDS. A good friend does and he has been on all of the meds. Prep and u=u are total disasters, and will just spread and create more drug resistant strains of HIV. Drug companies are pushing prep as they want people who have unsafe sex and take prep to get used to taking HIV meds daily for when they eventually become HIV+.

My friend has lived so long with HIV as he takes meds daily, and never misses a day despite the horrible short and long term side effects, and he sees doctors and has blood tests done. He told me how despite taking meds daily, how with one viral level test he was shown as undetectable and he was given another test which showed him as being detectable/transmissive.

Sure, I understand that HIV meds vary, but my point is that there is one of them (I forgot which chemical) where there are several polymorphs, and only one of them has any efficacy against HIV. The other polymorphs, despite being the same molecule, are ineffective. I read a study about it a few years ago.
 
hello all new to BLueLight bc I'm hoping to discuss this in depth like you all, been doing it since '94 and have recently learned to shop online but want to be able to cross reference vendors etc with other forum users..Reddit not being so friendly. NOT looking for sourcing, just to be able to ask about certain vendors. Is that cool here or no?
Pretty sure there's a no source talk policy here
 
Pretty sure there's a no source talk policy here
Its fine to talk about batches like different prints and names of blotters etc.

So as long as somehow doesnt mention where they got it there is some leway.

So if someone has liquid or some blank blotter its going to be very hard to know anything.
But if its a big batch print then we can at least have a decent guess about its quality.
 
hello all new to BLueLight bc I'm hoping to discuss this in depth like you all, been doing it since '94 and have recently learned to shop online but want to be able to cross reference vendors etc with other forum users..Reddit not being so friendly. NOT looking for sourcing, just to be able to ask about certain vendors. Is that cool here or no?
You cannot mention specific vendors. So at best I guess you could mention “batches” or blotter prints. I don’t think it would do you a lot of good. You’d be better off trying to find dark-web specific forums.
 
Sure, I understand that HIV meds vary, but my point is that there is one of them (I forgot which chemical) where there are several polymorphs, and only one of them has any efficacy against HIV. The other polymorphs, despite being the same molecule, are ineffective. I read a study about it a few years ago.

I think in the context you are using the term polymorph incorrectly. The drugs are not polymorphic. The cytochrome P450 2B6 gene (CYP2B6), which is implicated in the metabolism of the HIV drug Efavirenz, is polymorphic across the human population. Genotype subgroups which correspond to a particular kind of mutation in this gene metabolise the drug differently and manifest drug resistance in markedly different ways.

The whole class of NNRTI drugs demonstrate different effectiveness against HIV based primarily on chirality with some aspects of the HIV virus (which I don’t understand, I think it is an enzyme) demonstrating stereoselectivity in binding with the enantiomers of these compounds.
 
I think in the context you are using the term polymorph incorrectly. The drugs are not polymorphic. The cytochrome P450 2B6 gene (CYP2B6), which is implicated in the metabolism of the HIV drug Efavirenz, is polymorphic across the human population. Genotype subgroups which correspond to a particular kind of mutation in this gene metabolise the drug differently and manifest drug resistance in markedly different ways.

The whole class of NNRTI drugs demonstrate different effectiveness against HIV based primarily on chirality with some aspects of the HIV virus (which I don’t understand, I think it is an enzyme) demonstrating stereoselectivity in binding with the enantiomers of these compounds.

No he’s correct, the term “polymorph” refers to many things. In this context he’s referring to crystalline polymorphs which many (most?) substances have depending on crystallization conditions.

This is pretty cutting edge stuff, it’s so misunderstood there’s a phenomenon called “disappearing polymorphs” where a lab creates one polymorph of a drug but then overtime they begin to create a new one and can’t figure out how to replicate the first polymorph. This has led to legal action between pharmaceutical companies I believe. They aren’t sure why it happens but one guess is trace amounts of one polymorph floating in the lab may create different conditions for crystallization.

There’s a research article reviewing pharmaceuticals and which ones vary in efficacy based on polymorph.


Ill say til I die, not all LSD is the same..

-GC
 
I might agree with you in an esoteric, good joo-joo way GC - in the same way I half believe LSD somehow chose Albert as its creator and called out to him in '43.

But my head tells me you have an arrangement of molecules in a lattice - and when a druggy says the acid "feels unclean" thats not the acid, thats him realising under the influence of the acid that he hasnt put soap to his arse in 6 months..
 
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No he’s correct, the term “polymorph” refers to many things. In this context he’s referring to crystalline polymorphs which many (most?) substances have depending on crystallization conditions.

This is pretty cutting edge stuff, it’s so misunderstood there’s a phenomenon called “disappearing polymorphs” where a lab creates one polymorph of a drug but then overtime they begin to create a new one and can’t figure out how to replicate the first polymorph. This has led to legal action between pharmaceutical companies I believe. They aren’t sure why it happens but one guess is trace amounts of one polymorph floating in the lab may create different conditions for crystallization.

There’s a research article reviewing pharmaceuticals and which ones vary in efficacy based on polymorph.


Ill say til I die, not all LSD is the same..

-GC

Thanks GC, I believe maybe you've shared this article before because this is one of the pieces I was wanting to post as evidence of my point, but I had no idea how to find it.
 
Wow, learn something new every day, that is very interesting stuff, polymorphism, I guess "LSD is LSD" is a more simplistic viewpoint than I always thought it was.

That said - HIV drugs are one thing, but when it comes to psychedelics, I maintain that the vast, vast majority of people who think they can tell the difference between different batches of LSD, or indeed any other psychedelic drug, that are equivalently dosed, in actual fact are kidding themselves and the difference can be accounted for by placebo and the power of suggestion.

The psychedelic experience is simply too complex and variable from one trip to the next, even with the exact same batch in an almost identical setting (as far as such a thing is possible to replicate) that I find it exceedingly unlikely that whatever differences in the character of the experience might result from polymorphic variations can be reliably separated out from all the other unquantifiable psychedelic/psychic noise.

Polymorphism no doubt will provide a convenient way for those who insist that they can discern some difference to explain the reason for this, in a scientifically grounded way, but I think this is unlikely to be accurate. Not impossible, but, unlikely.
 
I tend to agree, I do also think, though, that there is a lot more going on with drug-brain interactions than we understand at this time. We have a partial picture; it is arrogant to believe that we have the entire picture right now at this point in time, and leave no room for the possibility that there are properties of molecules that we do not yet understand, and that these properties can impact the action of a drug in the brain.

My thing is looking back on many, many, many experiences over time, and realizing some common differences between batches that were ever-present. Of course each trip is different, but if, say, you come up within X amount of time instead of Y amount of time, or have stomach upset vs no stomach upset, every time, or feel relaxed vs edgy, every time, or (like in the case of some 3-MeO-PCP batch variance), feel hypomanic and stimulated vs sedated, every time... it becomes difficult to convince myself this is just placebo, especially when in some cases, there was no pre-existing expectation, these properties were noticed in retrospect. Within these experiences, it wasn't as if each trip was the same or that there weren't a great many overlaps, it's that there were aspects of the experience that differed, consistently, between batches of drugs that should have, according to the current scientific view, been the same.

Again I agree that much or most of this is probably due to placebo... the infamous example of the "brown acid" illustrates the power of placebo very well. I just think there is more to it than that, something we do not yet understand that can cause different pharmacokinetics between batches of molecules that current wisdom tells us should be absolutely identical. I mean, if you think about it, different crystal polymorphs of the same substance must have some sort of property which causes them to behave differently when they form crystals. So there is in fact something different about those molecules. Whether that difference can cause a difference in pharmacology is not clear, but it could.
 
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LSD has always enjoyed the status of being able to be branded as _____UG (fill in the blank) per dose of ________(fill in the blank), and it either is LSD, at whatever dose it happened to actually be, or... it is not. So yes...sellers can call it whatever they feel gives them a perceived advantage in terms of appealing to buyer X. As we all know, could be blank paper, any other number of other UG active compounds, and you know the rest.

While it is the nature of the beast when dealing with such potent compounds that essentially cannot be seen or properly analyzed by the observer, it seems that it has always been this way and will not likely ever change. Even in the world of "I had those blotters, too!", we all know that no one has a monopoly on any given print on any given piece of perforated paper, and while it can appear helpful, it is very limiting for obvious reasons as anyone can acquire or recreate blotter artwork.

So in the end, branding LSD, falsely or otherwise, is a huge part of the "LSD Mythos" and marketing, if you will, and as a consumer, you are at the mercy of those you acquire your LSD from. That's one reason why once you have found a source that you can confirm is generally "quality", it inspires wiser folks to buy in larger quantities once they have made that determination for themselves, and just store it properly. I deal in harm reduction realms and I can tell you that people who tend to buy small quantities of tabs from different sources tend to be the people who share anecdotes of incredible variations in terms of experiences from what they believed was ____UGs of LSD.

In fact, I was working with a young person who was in the habit of taking multiple tabs that he believed were _____UGs, but reported "underwhelming" experiences from what he thought were _____UGs of LSD. He was in the habit of taking (what he thought were) multiple tabs of 100ug, say 3, 4 or 5. Then, acquired what were some extremely potent tabs (perhaps just accurately laid) and consumed multiple tabs, expecting one thing, but having a punishingly bad trip that he never really recovered from. I have seen these types of train-wreck experiences many times under similar circumstances.

This is a rather common phenomenon in the world of those that are exploring with tabs that come from a multitude of sources over time.

Side note; not sourcing.

Conversely, provider's like Gamma Goblin who ruled the dark net for many years were immensely successful at selling large quantities of LSD simply because "he" provided consistently HQ tabs and crystal over time and made it relatively easy to acquire it at a reasonable price, and had a large customer base that were active on the internet and shared common experiences with tabs acquired from him. He was like the "In and Out Burger" of LSD sales on the internet and everyone on various clear net and darknet forums could share anecdotes that confirmed that you generally knew what you were getting when you bought from "him." I am still amazed at how successful such an operation it was, but again, there was no monkey business and track records speak for themselves in such instances. Not long thereafter, with the advent of a multitude of DNMs coming and going, knowing what you were getting came with a higher risk.

And speaking of branding, "he" utilized it as a method of labeling his tabs for sure, but overall, "his" track record was particularly good in terms of customer satisfaction, if you will. I say this not as sourcing, just as an example of a seller who was known world-wide for selling consistently dosed tabs...with a minor exception here and there (when there was an issue, he would literally send customers replacement tabs and was known for this kind of customer service, if you will), and only dealt in sheets, pages and crystal. Sorry for the rant but whenever I see this subject come up, I like to add my two cents worth...for whatever those 2 pennies are actually worth at this point.
 
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LSD has always enjoyed the status of being able to be branded as _____UG (fill in the blank) per dose of ________(fill in the blank), and it either is LSD, at whatever dose it happened to actually be, or... it is not. So yes...sellers can call it whatever they feel gives them a perceived advantage in terms of appealing to buyer X. As we all know, could be blank paper, any other number of other UG active compounds, and you know the rest.

While it is the nature of the beast when dealing with such potent compounds that essentially cannot be seen or properly analyzed by the observer, it seems that it has always been this way and will not likely ever change. Even in the world of "I had those blotters, too!", we all know that no one has a monopoly on any given print on any given piece of perforated paper, and while it can appear helpful, it is very limiting for obvious reasons as anyone can acquire or recreate blotter artwork.

So in the end, branding LSD, falsely or otherwise, is a huge part of the "LSD Mythos" and marketing, if you will, and as a consumer, you are at the mercy of those you acquire your LSD from. That's one reason why once you have found a source that you can confirm is generally "quality", it inspires wiser folks to buy in larger quantities once they have made that determination for themselves, and just store it properly. I deal in harm reduction realms and I can tell you that people who tend to buy small quantities of tabs from different sources tend to be the people who share anecdotes of incredible variations in terms of experiences from what they believed was ____UGs of LSD.

In fact, I was working with a young person who was in the habit of taking multiple tabs that he believed were _____UGs, but reported "underwhelming" experiences from what he thought were _____UGs of LSD. He was in the habit of taking (what he thought were) multiple tabs of 100ug, say 3, 4 or 5. Then, acquired what were some extremely potent tabs (perhaps just accurately laid) and consumed multiple tabs, expecting one thing, but having a punishingly bad trip that he never really recovered from. I have seen these types of train-wreck experiences many times under similar circumstances.

This is a rather common phenomenon in the world of those that are exploring with tabs that come from a multitude of sources over time.

Side note; not sourcing.

Conversely, provider's like Gamma Goblin who ruled the dark net for many years were immensely successful at selling large quantities of LSD simply because "he" provided consistently HQ tabs and crystal over time and made it relatively easy to acquire it at a reasonable price, and had a large customer base that were active on the internet and shared common experiences with tabs acquired from him. He was like the "In and Out Burger" of LSD sales on the internet and everyone on various clear net and darknet forums could share anecdotes that confirmed that you generally knew what you were getting when you bought from "him." I am still amazed at how successful such an operation it was, but again, there was no monkey business and track records speak for themselves in such instances. Not long thereafter, with the advent of a multitude of DNMs coming and going, knowing what you were getting came with a higher risk.

And speaking of branding, "he" utilized it as a method of labeling his tabs for sure, but overall, "his" track record was particularly good in terms of customer satisfaction, if you will. I say this not as sourcing, just as an example of a seller who was known world-wide for selling consistently dosed tabs...with a minor exception here and there (when there was an issue, he would literally send customers replacement tabs and was known for this kind of customer service, if you will), and only dealt in sheets, pages and crystal. Sorry for the rant but whenever I see this subject come up, I like to add my two cents worth...for whatever those 2 pennies are actually worth at this point.
Very true. I have read trip reports where people claim to have taken 250-350ug of LSD, and they describe being able to easily do things such as appear normal, talk, write, use a computer or mobile phone, etc.
 
Very true. I have read trip reports where people claim to have taken 250-350ug of LSD, and they describe being able to easily do things such as appear normal, talk, write, use a computer or mobile phone, etc.
For sure. I can say that I have encountered many, many tabs in the past that would completely annihilate this whole idea of "taking a ten strip" like it was nothing, even with a decent tolerance, as you would have your ass handed to you. I recall that as a general rule, we expected to get fire because it was what we routinely got, and you would never just drop a pile of tabs before knowing what you were dealing with. Ever. Most people that I knew were 1 to 2 tab type of folks, and even they reported very heavy experiences. And this was not a small sample size, as many people in our circles back then were all taking the same L. I was more of a heroic dose type dude, who would push to 3 or 4, which was literally like going to another dimension and bearing witness to things I cannot describe here. And I kept a very high tolerance for a long time and tripped multiple times per week rather often. But even I knew that you just do not jump in the pond with new tabs until you knew damn well just how potent they were. Even with tolerance, I had no problem at all getting to the magical places over and over again.

So yeah...If you lived through the 80s scene, the very idea of taking a "10 strip" would be absolutely incomprehensible to anyone who was used to the doses floating around back then. And no, I am not romanticizing it; the L was that impressive and consistent, as in, some people were struggling with a tab and a half or two at times. Even I, when doubling up the next day with an obviously high tolerance might do 3 on Friday night, and 6 or so on Saturday, with generally killer results, though I do not recommend it for most people. So yes, indeed. The L that was making the rounds back then was nothing to joke around with.

There were the occasional "lesser" tabs here and there, but by and large, most people were having rather epic experiences with 2 or 3 tabs, that in retrospect, were likely actually mic'd at about 100 ugs per tab or so. And yes...taking 3 of those tabs rendered you unable to speak while trying to make sense of what was happening, feeling completely immersed in a psychedelic bath, and had you having OEVs that completely replaced consensus reality to the point where you were looking through a wall of color and geometry, and at times, wondering if you'd ever be "normal" again, as it were. And I remember how impossible it was to even roll a joint or do anything of import without great struggle, and you would be almost incapable of effective communication with others around you, and often didn't even try to talk if you could avoid it. And of course, you would do anything you could to avoid having to confront or speak to people who were not tripping.
 
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