Nazi's Perfect Drug

[twgburst]

Yeah he talked about killing a few thousand jews in Mein Kampf to save all of the Germans from WW1. He didn't exactly talk about killing the Jews in it, but it was obvious that he hated them to the extreme. Also about the methadone comment, that was what I was talking about, I have read that it was and wasn't about an opium shortage, I doubt that there will ever be solid proof, unless either new documents are discovered, or if we start resurrecting people. Also, Hitler hated Communism, and it was only a matter of time before he attacked Russia. As for blaming all those people's deaths indirectly on Meth, which do you really think had a bigger impact? Prison, war, and living a shitty life, or drug use? It didn't help, but he was a lost cause from the get go, no amount of speed can make someone that is a good person kill someone else that is not a threat, or appears to be a threat let a lone several million people. Also, isn't Mein Kampf illegal to buy in France?

 

[BumpyJohnson]

I think this thread alone is proof enough we need a WWII forum, damnit!... or a Drug History Forum..

I think a drug history forum would most definately be in order!!! it would certainly bring some interesting topics to the table..

and with everyone talking about Amphetamine's.. and with it allegedly being invented by the nazis.. in order to stimulate their troops to fight longer and harder it was later sold to the japanese military, used by the infamous 'kamikaze' suicide pilots!!.. which most people on here probably already know..
btw.. here's a pretty good, well informed power point presentation about the whole history of Meth etc.. thought I'd throw the link out there if anyone is interested in checking it out..
http://www.methinfokit.org/documents/thehistoryofmeth.ppt

 

[dwfan]

^ Our guys were issued it too--mainly pilots during the Cold War era. Used to keep them awake on those long bombing journeys that we had planned into Soviet territory.

 

[jasoncrest]

I think Amphetamines (or Ritalin?) are still used today by US pilots...
Can anyone confirm this? (I'm not sure)

 

[dwfan]

I *think* that they switched over to Provogil now, but I'm not really sure. Some nonesense aboutt Ritalin making them all jumpy and such...........

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

^^ Yeah they're using Provigil now instead of Dexedrine.

 

[tomeyto]

Also about the methadone comment, that was what I was talking about, I have read that it was and wasn't about an opium shortage, I doubt that there will ever be solid proof, unless either new documents are discovered, or if we start resurrecting people.

At the time Turkey was rich in opium and prone to meet most german demands in order to avoid an invasion.

 

[dwfan]

Turkey was a neutral country during the war, and as such the US and Britain had their own scheme going with them. Which basically was to purchase some raw materials from them before the Germans could, and then witholding raw materials from them till they agreed not to export similar items to Germany.

Plus the Turks were in a no win situation. Uncle Adolf was going to invade them as soon as a successful invasion of Russia happened. His whole game plan with accepting their neutrality was to create a buffer zone of peace in the Mediterreanean area.

A pretty interesting read (below from page 7)

"The basic objectives of joint U.S.-British wartime economic operations and policies toward
neutral Turkey were to minimize Turkey’s contribution to the German war economy and to supply civilian
and military equipment in order to enable Turkey to become an active participant with the Allies in the
War. In order to prevent Germany from acquiring strategic raw materials from Turkey, Britain and the
United States adopted a program of preclusive purchases of Turkish chromite and other minerals and
withholding certain supplies from Turkey in return for Turkey’s ban on exports of similar items to
Germany.31 Britain, which had a continuing stake in the Turkish economy, began in 1940 its program of
preclusive buying of Turkish strategic materials. Chromite ore was the most significant commodity in the
program (copper and some other minerals were also acquired), but foodstuffs were purchased to supply the
British population, and the British were obliged to purchase other goods, such as dried fruits and tobacco,
as a condition of obtaining access to Turkish chromite. Preclusive buying from Turkey became far more
important after Germany concluded the "Clodius agreement" with Turkey in October 1941, under which
Turkey would provide Germany with a variety of raw materials, most importantly chromite, in exchange
for German military equipment."

http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/rpt_9806_ng_turkey.pdf

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ Our guys were issued it too--mainly pilots during the Cold War era. Used to keep them awake on those long bombing journeys that we had planned into Soviet territory.

During WW2, bomber command issued tons of amphetamines to crews of Lancasters & other heavy bombers due to the fatiguing nature of flying to Germany & back at night; after taking anything up to 5 hours to get to some targets, deal with the adrenaline over the target and then another 5 hours to get back, crews would be almost dead on their feet which isn't what you want if you have to land a load of heavy bombers in close order, especially if some were shot up and weren't responding properly (I used to have a great uncle who was a 'tail end charlie' - a rear gunner in a Lancaster - who told me loads of stuff about what it was like when he discovered I was really interested in aircraft as a kid). Apparently for precision bombing operations like the dambusters raid, whole crews ended up as wired as Motorhead in the depths of a binge!

 

[dwfan]

^^ Also worth noting was the Mafia's involvement in WWII. "Lucky" Luciano was in the employ of the US governement (I guess it was the OSS at that time--before the CIA??)

Even though he had been deported to Italy, deals were worked out with him to funnel Allied troops and supplies through the countryside unhindered.

I forget if it was his crew or not, but they were also employed to keep an eye on the docks in NYC. Making sure that nothing that shouldnt be happening was happening. My uncle who retired from the PD in '73 told me a bit about that as he had learned it in '52 when he was in the police academy.

(although in at least one incident that I've had four people recount to me personally (I have a lot of Germans in my neighborhood), at one point during the war a German U-Boat docked in NY Harbor. The sailors donned civilian clothing and headed to a bar not to far from me (doesn't exist anymore) who's owner was a Nazi sympathizer, for drinks food and fun. After which they retreated back to the U-Boat and slipped away.)

Now of course the Mafia doesn't work for nothing. Luciano did cooperate a bit out of pride in his homeland, and resentment of the facism. But you know that he had to have something pretty sweet in return. Could it have been part of the Opium??? Who knows, but I wouldn't count it out.

 

[dwfan]

During WW2, bomber command issued tons of amphetamines to crews of Lancasters & other heavy bombers due to the fatiguing nature of flying to Germany & back at night; after taking anything up to 5 hours to get to some targets, deal with the adrenaline over the target and then another 5 hours to get back, crews would be almost dead on their feet which isn't what you want if you have to land a load of heavy bombers in close order, especially if some were shot up and weren't responding properly (I used to have a great uncle who was a 'tail end charlie' - a rear gunner in a Lancaster - who told me loads of stuff about what it was like when he discovered I was really interested in aircraft as a kid). Apparently for precision bombing operations like the dambusters raid, whole crews ended up as wired as Motorhead in the depths of a binge!

Right on target. I used the Cold War as an example, mainly because we always had planes in the air ready to commence the destruction of the world at a seconds notice. So you had pilots flying long distances in circles for hours on end.

They phased out Ritalin and Dexedrine I believe because of the accidental friendly fire bombing of Canadian troops a few years back. I remember bits and pieces of it all (I was so jacked up on Hydro and such atthe time its hard to remember ALOT of things), but I remember that during the 'murder' trial of the pilots (how do you charge someone with murder in a war zone? That is like giving out speeding tickets at the Daytona 500 IMO) the issue of stimulants clouding the pilots' judgement was brought up. And it turned out to be a positive defense.

From that point onward, they were issued Provigil instead.

In *my* own *opinion*, if we were still at the point of not knowing from day to day if teh Soviets were going to attack us or vice versa, I think I would have preferred pilots on both sides to be jacked up to the gills. I don't think there would be a better deterrent out there--pilots carrying deadly nuclear payloads jacked up on to the point of mania on Meth ready to start pushing every button in an instant if given the order to. I think that would have lowered tensions between us and the commies a bit, with both of us knowing that we basically had homocidal maniacs up in the air at all times. And if it did indeed happen, at least the human factor would have been taken out of it and we would have been destroyed relatively quickly. A man with a straight brain can still make a rational decision or even slightly delay his reaction time.

Jesus Christ......I'm starting to sound a bit like a liberal.......Time to catch the last hour of Rush.

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

They phased out Ritalin and Dexedrine I believe because of the accidental friendly fire bombing of Canadian troops a few years back.

To sway from the beaten path, the 4 killed Canadians died as a result of a 500 lb HE bomb being dropped on them during a live-fire training exercise. The pilot mistook the tracer fire as enemy ground fire, and dropped his payload.

 

[dwfan]

^ Like I siad, my memory of that time period was very clouded. But I do remember Ritalin and other stimulants being brought up in the court martial, as to what had clouded the pilots perceptions.

Either way it's something that shouldn't have happened, but in a morbid sort of way it's *probably* good that it did. Not that the loss of friendly life by friendly forces is good, but good in the sense that it brought to light the conditions that long range bomber pilots work under. At least it paved the way for a 'safer' means to the end.

 

[twgburst]

It was Adderall.

 

[fastandbulbous]

To sway from the beaten path, the 4 killed Canadians died as a result of a 500 lb HE bomb being dropped on them during a live-fire training exercise. The pilot mistook the tracer fire as enemy ground fire, and dropped his payload.

That's without even getting into the A-10 pilot who destroyed a British APC during the fist Gulf conflict and blamed it on taking triazolam to help him sleep because he was so wired with all the amphetamines he was having to take. It was all over the local news in NE England as they were members of the Coldstream Guards and were all from this region (two actually came from the town I was living in at the time)

 

[RorerQuaalude714]

^^ Gotta love how meds are always used as a scapegoat for poor conduct. Then again during the Gulf War I era (Early 90's) Halcion was being blamed for anything. Anyone remember Newsweek's article on it?

Lost your job? Musta been the Halcion.
Got a paper cut? It was the Halcion that caused it.
Aced your family? Yep, it's the damn Halcion again.

 

[Panoramix]

So as I mentioned in another post a long time ago on the same subject, methamphetamine deserves a place of honour along with radar, the Supermarine Spitfire & the T-34 as one of the pivotal reasons why tha Nazis lost WW2

You forgot to mention the Glorious Red Army !!!! — 'cos if they weren't so hardly involved in the fight, yanks would never succeed to beat those f****n nazis.

 

[chrisj303]

^ Our guys were issued it too--mainly pilots during the Cold War era. Used to keep them awake on those long bombing journeys that we had planned into Soviet territory.

I was SURE that it was benzedrine, but i might be wrong??!

 

[fastandbulbous]

You forgot to mention the Glorious Red Army !!!! — 'cos if they weren't so hardly involved in the fight, yanks would never succeed to beat those f****n nazis.

Yes, but people hardly come under the heading of invention/discovery, which all the things I listed do

 

[Tar Baby]

Nice Idea for a topic. I have also seen/ heard conflicting info about this. I think I remember the name pervitan being thrown around in a discussion about this topic. Wish I could help more. Good luck, I will definitely be checking in on this later.

Nazis invented methadone due to their poppy ( and thus morphine for wounded soldiers etc) supply was cut off